[VOTE] PMC vote on Elias Ross as a new Log4j committer

[Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>]

Per the project bylaws (http://logging.apache.org/site/bylaws.html),  
it appears that both a subproject (described in the actions section)  
and PMC vote (second paragraph after Committers) are required to  
grant new commit rights.  This message is to inform the PMC of the  
results of the subproject vote and to initiate a PMC vote to confirm  
the log4j vote.

Here is my +1, the second time around.


The summary of the log4j vote from log4j-dev:

> From: Jacob Kjome <ho...@visi.com>
> Date: November 20, 2006 1:39:20 AM CST
> To: Log4J Developers List <lo...@logging.apache.org>
> Subject: [VOTE][RESULT] Please welcome Elias Ross as a new Log4j   
> committer
> Reply-To: Log4J Developers List <lo...@logging.apache.org>
>
>
> 5 votes for Elias Ross to be elevated to committer status on the  
> Log4j project, all +1's from...
>
> Jacob Kjome
> Yoav Shapira
> Scott Deboy
> Paul Smith
> Curt Arnold
>
>
> Congratulations Elias!  You are the newest committer of the Log4j  
> team.  Welcome!
>
> Yoav, Curt, or someone else in the know about infrastructure  
> stuff;  can you get Elias set up properly?
>
>
> Jake

[VOTE][RESULT] PMC vote on Elias Ross as a new Log4j committer

[Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>]

Vote called on 21 Nov 2006:

Three binding +1 votes:

Curt Arnold
Yoav Shapira
Scott Deboy

No other votes.

Project bylaws (was Re: [VOTE] PMC vote on Elias Ross as a new Log4j committer)

[Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org>]

On Nov 21, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Yoav Shapira wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 11/21/06, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Per the project bylaws (http://logging.apache.org/site/bylaws.html),
>> it appears that both a subproject (described in the actions section)
>> and PMC vote (second paragraph after Committers) are required to
>> grant new commit rights.  This message is to inform the PMC of the
>> results of the subproject vote and to initiate a PMC vote to confirm
>> the log4j vote.
>
> This is kind of surprising.  I thought the bylaws say lazy consensus
> of the PMC, not a formal vote, so all that was required is a message
> from one of the log4j committers to the logging PMC saying "hey, we've
> voted this guy in, so unless you have any objections, please send an
> email to root@apache.org asking for his account..."
>
> But if a vote is required, here's my +1 again.

The description of "Lazy Consensus" in the bylaws says that it  
requires "3 binding +1 votes", so I don't see how you could have a  
Lazy Consensus of PMC members without having a call for a vote by  
that definition.  The definition of "Lazy Consensus" is different at  
http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#LazyConsensus.   
However, as all the log4j votes were from PMC members and the only  
abstaining PMC members (Mark and Ceki) have been quiet for a while,  
it should be a only a formality.

> On a separate note, we should remove these bylaws altogether.  We just
> had a discussion about this on general@incubator.a.o (see
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator- 
> general&m=116405409724466&w=2
> for the key message).   Apparently project-level bylaws, like
> Jakarta's from which we copied ours, are invalid in the formal sense
> that we seem to be applying them here.
>
> Yoav

I could support that.  I've proposed modifying the bylaws a few years  
ago to streamline the double votes required for releases among other  
things.  Eliminating the project bylaws altogether would likely  
accomplish all the benefits that a streamlining would and would  
eliminate the possibilities for conflicts between LS definitions and  
ASF definitions.  I think it would essentially make everything  
requiring a vote (like a release) a single PMC vote.  Let's make it  
open for discussion for a little while and if it still seems like a  
good idea, let's put it to a PMC vote.

Re: [VOTE] PMC vote on Elias Ross as a new Log4j committer

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On 11/21/06, Curt Arnold <ca...@apache.org> wrote:
> Per the project bylaws (http://logging.apache.org/site/bylaws.html),
> it appears that both a subproject (described in the actions section)
> and PMC vote (second paragraph after Committers) are required to
> grant new commit rights.  This message is to inform the PMC of the
> results of the subproject vote and to initiate a PMC vote to confirm
> the log4j vote.

This is kind of surprising.  I thought the bylaws say lazy consensus
of the PMC, not a formal vote, so all that was required is a message
from one of the log4j committers to the logging PMC saying "hey, we've
voted this guy in, so unless you have any objections, please send an
email to root@apache.org asking for his account..."

But if a vote is required, here's my +1 again.

On a separate note, we should remove these bylaws altogether.  We just
had a discussion about this on general@incubator.a.o (see
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=116405409724466&w=2
for the key message).   Apparently project-level bylaws, like
Jakarta's from which we copied ours, are invalid in the formal sense
that we seem to be applying them here.

Yoav