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Posted to users@maven.apache.org by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> on 2006/11/07 17:13:16 UTC
Transitive dependecies
Hi all,
transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
exists...
How can one create a pom module that contains a list of dependencies
(let's name it "lib pom"), so that when the lib pom is added as a
dependecy in let's say a war project, the exact list of dependencies
from lib pom (no more, no less => no transitivity) are added to the war
WEB-INF/lib ?
Thanks for your help,
Sebastien
Re: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
> Even if the POM are correct, transitivity can copy much more classes
> than really needed : you're using library A, which a subset of class
> uses library B. If you don't use this particular subset of classes in
> library A, you don't need the dependency on library B (I hope it's
> clear).
In this case, A should probably mark its dependencies on B as
'optional' to avoid the exact situation you find yourself in. If
you're having this problem, chances are that other people are, too.
If you let us know what dependency is causing it, we can take a look
and try to get it fixed.
Sometimes the project in question is not using Maven itself, so the
developers don't realize what happens when they leave all of their
dependencies in the default (compile) scope.
--
Wendy
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
Yes. I would like to have something like <excludes>
<exclude>ALL<exclude> </excludes>.
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Punzalan [mailto:epunzalan@exist.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:22 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
Yes, I agree with that... and that's a good reason for using <excludes>.
But you don't really disable transitivity completely with it. You just
select from the list of dependencies to not use, in your example,
library B.
Sebastien Brunot wrote:
> Even if the POM are correct, transitivity can copy much more classes
> than really needed : you're using library A, which a subset of class
> uses library B. If you don't use this particular subset of classes in
> library A, you don't need the dependency on library B (I hope it's
> clear).
>
> Sebastien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edwin Punzalan [mailto:epunzalan@exist.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:53 PM
> To: Maven Users List
> Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
>
>
> Dependencies should be marked as optional if it is not required.
>
> There's nothing bad with transitivity if the poms are correct... it
> actually makes dependency management easier.
>
> Broken poms make transitivity look bad.
>
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
>
>> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
>>> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
>>> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
>>> exists...
>>>
>> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
>> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional,
>> aren't.)
>>
>> What dependencies are causing problems?
>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Edwin Punzalan <ep...@exist.com>.
Yes, I agree with that... and that's a good reason for using
<excludes>. But you don't really disable transitivity completely with
it. You just select from the list of dependencies to not use, in your
example, library B.
Sebastien Brunot wrote:
> Even if the POM are correct, transitivity can copy much more classes
> than really needed : you're using library A, which a subset of class
> uses library B. If you don't use this particular subset of classes in
> library A, you don't need the dependency on library B (I hope it's
> clear).
>
> Sebastien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edwin Punzalan [mailto:epunzalan@exist.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:53 PM
> To: Maven Users List
> Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
>
>
> Dependencies should be marked as optional if it is not required.
>
> There's nothing bad with transitivity if the poms are correct... it
> actually makes dependency management easier.
>
> Broken poms make transitivity look bad.
>
>
> Wendy Smoak wrote:
>
>> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
>>> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
>>> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
>>> exists...
>>>
>> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
>> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
>>
>> What dependencies are causing problems?
>>
>>
>
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>
>
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
Even if the POM are correct, transitivity can copy much more classes
than really needed : you're using library A, which a subset of class
uses library B. If you don't use this particular subset of classes in
library A, you don't need the dependency on library B (I hope it's
clear).
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Punzalan [mailto:epunzalan@exist.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:53 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
Dependencies should be marked as optional if it is not required.
There's nothing bad with transitivity if the poms are correct... it
actually makes dependency management easier.
Broken poms make transitivity look bad.
Wendy Smoak wrote:
> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>
>> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
>> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
>> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
>> exists...
>
> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
>
> What dependencies are causing problems?
>
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Re: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Edwin Punzalan <ep...@exist.com>.
Dependencies should be marked as optional if it is not required.
There's nothing bad with transitivity if the poms are correct... it
actually makes dependency management easier.
Broken poms make transitivity look bad.
Wendy Smoak wrote:
> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>
>> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
>> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
>> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
>> exists...
>
> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
>
> What dependencies are causing problems?
>
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
In fact, the dependencies I don't want in the lib directory are the one
obtained because of the transitivity mechanism. So I want all
dependencies included, but not the one they might have themselves (and I
may not have access to the POM of those dependencies to set their scope
to provided).
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Vysny [mailto:mvy@whitestein.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:44 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 17:27 +0100, Sebastien Brunot wrote:
> Hi Wendy,
>
> Are you trying to tell me that the feature I'm asking about does not
> exists in maven 2 (inheriting dependencies from a pom without
> transitivity, but with a scope that makes them copied in WEB-INF/lib
> when I'm working on a war project) ?
>
Try to define those dependencies you *don't* want to appear in the lib
directory with scope 'provided'. Dependency with 'provided' scope is
defined as being provided by the environment (for example by the JEE
server).
> Sebastien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Smoak [mailto:wsmoak@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:18 PM
> To: Maven Users List
> Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
>
> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>
> > transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
> > external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
> > tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
> > exists...
>
> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
>
> What dependencies are causing problems?
>
> --
> Wendy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Martin Vysny <mv...@whitestein.com>.
On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 17:27 +0100, Sebastien Brunot wrote:
> Hi Wendy,
>
> Are you trying to tell me that the feature I'm asking about does not
> exists in maven 2 (inheriting dependencies from a pom without
> transitivity, but with a scope that makes them copied in WEB-INF/lib
> when I'm working on a war project) ?
>
Try to define those dependencies you *don't* want to appear in the lib
directory with scope 'provided'. Dependency with 'provided' scope is
defined as being provided by the environment (for example by the JEE
server).
> Sebastien
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wendy Smoak [mailto:wsmoak@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:18 PM
> To: Maven Users List
> Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
>
> On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
>
> > transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
> > external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
> > tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
> > exists...
>
> Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
> broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
>
> What dependencies are causing problems?
>
> --
> Wendy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
Hi Wendy,
Are you trying to tell me that the feature I'm asking about does not
exists in maven 2 (inheriting dependencies from a pom without
transitivity, but with a scope that makes them copied in WEB-INF/lib
when I'm working on a war project) ?
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Wendy Smoak [mailto:wsmoak@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:18 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: Transitive dependecies
On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
> exists...
Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
What dependencies are causing problems?
--
Wendy
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On 11/7/06, Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr> wrote:
> transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
> external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
> tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
> exists...
Having to use a lot of exclusions generally means that the poms are
broken. (For example, things that should be marked optional, aren't.)
What dependencies are causing problems?
--
Wendy
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
Thanks for the hint barrett, it is valuable to me (using dependency
plugin to copy jars in WEB-INF/lib instead of declaring dependencies).
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrett Nuzum [mailto:Barrett.Nuzum@Valtech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:54 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Sebastien:
I think most people instead suppress all dependencies from war bundling
and then use the maven-dependency-plugin to copy specific artifacts. (It
provides more fine grained control at the expense of some
extensibility.)
It's not a core maven feature, though, as far as I know.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:41 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Hi barrett,
I think I'm actually proceeding quite the same (the "lib pom" I was
talking about). I really want to know if I can move a step further and
make the dependencies not transitive while included in the WAR (actually
an EAR in my case ;-). If the feature does not exists yet in maven
(using scope settings or something else), I might ask for it: this is
why I want to know if it is already possible or not.
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrett Nuzum [mailto:Barrett.Nuzum@Valtech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:28 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Sebastien:
On my current assignment, we solved this by having one POM for the main
dependencies of all projects, and a child POM called WebDependencies.
All child projects of type WAR specify WebDependencies as a direct
dependency.
This *does* include transitive dependencies -- but you should be able to
trim down the list of total dependencies included by a significant
amount. (The ones you probably actually need.)
If you bundle your WAR in an EAR, you can use this Dependencies POM in
both the EAR and WAR projects and suppress everything in the WAR's
WEB-INF/lib to eliminate duplication further.
Hope that helps.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:13 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Transitive dependecies
Hi all,
transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
exists...
How can one create a pom module that contains a list of dependencies
(let's name it "lib pom"), so that when the lib pom is added as a
dependecy in let's say a war project, the exact list of dependencies
from lib pom (no more, no less => no transitivity) are added to the war
WEB-INF/lib ?
Thanks for your help,
Sebastien
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Barrett Nuzum <Ba...@Valtech.com>.
Sebastien:
I think most people instead suppress all dependencies from war bundling and then use the maven-dependency-plugin to copy specific artifacts. (It provides more fine grained control at the expense of some extensibility.)
It's not a core maven feature, though, as far as I know.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:41 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Hi barrett,
I think I'm actually proceeding quite the same (the "lib pom" I was
talking about). I really want to know if I can move a step further and
make the dependencies not transitive while included in the WAR (actually
an EAR in my case ;-). If the feature does not exists yet in maven
(using scope settings or something else), I might ask for it: this is
why I want to know if it is already possible or not.
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrett Nuzum [mailto:Barrett.Nuzum@Valtech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:28 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Sebastien:
On my current assignment, we solved this by having one POM for the main
dependencies of all projects, and a child POM called WebDependencies.
All child projects of type WAR specify WebDependencies as a direct
dependency.
This *does* include transitive dependencies -- but you should be able to
trim down the list of total dependencies included by a significant
amount. (The ones you probably actually need.)
If you bundle your WAR in an EAR, you can use this Dependencies POM in
both the EAR and WAR projects and suppress everything in the WAR's
WEB-INF/lib to eliminate duplication further.
Hope that helps.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:13 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Transitive dependecies
Hi all,
transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
exists...
How can one create a pom module that contains a list of dependencies
(let's name it "lib pom"), so that when the lib pom is added as a
dependecy in let's say a war project, the exact list of dependencies
from lib pom (no more, no less => no transitivity) are added to the war
WEB-INF/lib ?
Thanks for your help,
Sebastien
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Sebastien Brunot <sb...@ilog.fr>.
Hi barrett,
I think I'm actually proceeding quite the same (the "lib pom" I was
talking about). I really want to know if I can move a step further and
make the dependencies not transitive while included in the WAR (actually
an EAR in my case ;-). If the feature does not exists yet in maven
(using scope settings or something else), I might ask for it: this is
why I want to know if it is already possible or not.
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrett Nuzum [mailto:Barrett.Nuzum@Valtech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 5:28 PM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: RE: Transitive dependecies
Sebastien:
On my current assignment, we solved this by having one POM for the main
dependencies of all projects, and a child POM called WebDependencies.
All child projects of type WAR specify WebDependencies as a direct
dependency.
This *does* include transitive dependencies -- but you should be able to
trim down the list of total dependencies included by a significant
amount. (The ones you probably actually need.)
If you bundle your WAR in an EAR, you can use this Dependencies POM in
both the EAR and WAR projects and suppress everything in the WAR's
WEB-INF/lib to eliminate duplication further.
Hope that helps.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:13 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Transitive dependecies
Hi all,
transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
exists...
How can one create a pom module that contains a list of dependencies
(let's name it "lib pom"), so that when the lib pom is added as a
dependecy in let's say a war project, the exact list of dependencies
from lib pom (no more, no less => no transitivity) are added to the war
WEB-INF/lib ?
Thanks for your help,
Sebastien
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: Transitive dependecies
Posted by Barrett Nuzum <Ba...@Valtech.com>.
Sebastien:
On my current assignment, we solved this by having one POM for the main dependencies of all projects, and a child POM called WebDependencies.
All child projects of type WAR specify WebDependencies as a direct dependency.
This *does* include transitive dependencies -- but you should be able to trim down the list of total dependencies included by a significant amount. (The ones you probably actually need.)
If you bundle your WAR in an EAR, you can use this Dependencies POM in both the EAR and WAR projects and suppress everything in the WAR's WEB-INF/lib to eliminate duplication further.
Hope that helps.
Barrett
Barrett Nuzum
Consultant, Skill Development
barrett.nuzum@valtech.com
T: +1 (918) 640 4414
F: +1 (972) 789 1340
Valtech
5080 Spectrum Drive Suite 700 West
Addison, Texas 75001
USA
T: +1 (972) 789 1200
________________________________
From: Sebastien Brunot [mailto:sbrunot@ilog.fr]
Sent: Tue 11/7/2006 10:13 AM
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Transitive dependecies
Hi all,
transitive dependencies can be a real pain when you have a lot of
external dependencies in your project. Using <exclusions> tags is a
tedious operation in this case, so I was wondering if a quicker way
exists...
How can one create a pom module that contains a list of dependencies
(let's name it "lib pom"), so that when the lib pom is added as a
dependecy in let's say a war project, the exact list of dependencies
from lib pom (no more, no less => no transitivity) are added to the war
WEB-INF/lib ?
Thanks for your help,
Sebastien