You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> on 2003/12/20 12:33:22 UTC
What is Jakarta Commons?
Jakarta is having trouble redefining what is truly stands for. I had hoped
that in Jakarta-Commons we knew. However, since its specifically different
to what is in the charter, I guess we should decide. And then update the
charter. http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html
>From the websites:
'small scale, reusable, code components that are useful in multiple Jakarta
subprojects'
'focused on all aspects of reusable Java components'
'creating and maintaining reusable Java components'
'collaboration and sharing, where developers from throughout the Jakarta
community can work together on projects to be shared by the Jakarta projects
and Jakarta users'
There are other practical ways to define it. Each J-C component has
insufficient community on its own to survive at Apache, either as an
independent TLP or within another TLP. Yet within J-C the component is
supported and watched over. For example, one way to view this is by mailing
lists. If each commons component had its own mailing list, then most would
be very quiet. Not enough to stand alone.
My preferred short definition of J-C is:
'creating and maintaining small-scale, reusable, utility components written
in Java'
Is this definition OK? Any comments?
Stephen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Tomasz Pik <pi...@ais.pl>.
On 2003-12-22 23:32, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps slightly too
> tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
I don't think that [daemon] is a good example for this discussion.
As I understand A-C the idea is to support the same funcionality
in different languages (as xerces do: java, c, perl).
I'm not expecting (maybe I'm wrong) that non-java project
may use [daemon].
In J-C [validator] with JavaScripts might be a better example.
just 2cents
Tomek
> Stephen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org>.
I'd be -1 to Jakarta-Commons, as a Jakarta sub-project, changing its
charter to have a more general scope that Jakarta itself. For the time
being, this would mean both "server side" and "java" remain a part of the
scope constraints.
[daemon] is, by the way, within a "server side java" scope. It's a Java
API to a bit of native code supporting daemon processes.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the Java
> > language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed to
> > be used independently of any larger product or framework."
> >
> > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> > statement?
> The "intended for use in server-related development" is not something I
> believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit which we
> don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps slightly too
> tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
>
> Less importantly, the name 'package' is confusing, and component or product
> might make more sense.
>
> I'm not proposing radical change, just a tidying up of the charter,
> especially to eliminate the parts that are clearly wrong. References to
> "sponsoring subproject" and "catalog packages and other resources" are
> especially inaccurate.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
- Rod <http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Morgan Delagrange <md...@yahoo.com>.
--- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>
wrote:
> From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages
> written in the Java
> > language, intended for use in server-related
> development, and designed to
> > be used independently of any larger product or
> framework."
> >
> > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically
> different" from that
> > statement?
> The "intended for use in server-related development"
> is not something I
> believe we should have any more. It creates an
> artificial limit which we
> don't need. The "written in the Java language" is
> also perhaps slightly too
> tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
>
> Less importantly, the name 'package' is confusing,
> and component or product
> might make more sense.
>
> I'm not proposing radical change, just a tidying up
> of the charter,
> especially to eliminate the parts that are clearly
> wrong. References to
> "sponsoring subproject" and "catalog packages and
> other resources" are
> especially inaccurate.
>
> Stephen
The references to a sponsoring subproject aren't
innacurate. If you look more closely at the context,
the charter does not say that all Commons components
need a sponsoring subproject. All it says it that you
can't release project from the sandbox; they must be
integrated into another existing Jakarta subproject or
voted into the Commons Proper. The charter mentions
the concept of a "sponsor" twice, and in both cases
it's in reference to releasing code from the sandbox.
References to "the directory" are indeed inaccurate.
They indicate a portion of the project that never took
off.
- Morgan
=====
Morgan Delagrange
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
http://axion.tigris.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
The shortfall with this idea is that most projects that have established
thier own TLP are also maintaining thier own virtual host name.
maven.apache.org
ant.apache.org
cocoon.apache.org
how would these relate to java.apache.org? Do they drop thier
indepenendent host names for
java.apache.org/maven
java.apache.org/ant
java.apache.org/cocoon
or
maven.java.apache.org
ant.java.apache.org
cocoon.java.apache.org
this seems unneccessary, its highly unlikely there will be any other
"ant", "cocoon" or "maven" projects at Apache. SO maintaining thier
"namespace" as "optimized as possible is both clean and well marketed.
-Mark
Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> Perhaps this is a good reason to revive the java.apache.org site. This
> would allow jakarta to maintain a separate identity from all other java
> projects at apache.
>
> --
> Ryan Hoegg
> ISIS Networks
> http://www.isisnetworks.net
>
> Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
>> Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
>>
>>
>>>> The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never
>>>> did) all of
>>>> the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before
>>>> subprojects
>>>> like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java
>>>> code in
>>>> all
>>>> the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
>>>> graduated).
>>>
>>> That's not how I intended my comments to be taken. I would like Jakarta
>>> to keep its Java focus but I never meant that all Apache Java projects
>>> should be hosted by Jakarta.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> But I'm concerned that that's what outside people are likely to
>> *assume* it
>> means, even though we all know better. In other words, they're going
>> to think
>> it means "ALL things java@apache" instead of "SOME things java@apache".
>>
>>
>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Is someone who comes to the Jakarta home page going to find out they
>>>> can
>>>> download, say, an SVG viewer that is written in Java (Batik)?
>>>>
>>>> I would agree that a web presence that let people identify all the
>>>> Java-based
>>>> projects (or a search capability that lets you specify implementation
>>>> language
>>>> as a criteria) would be a very useful feature. I don't believe that
>>>> such a web
>>>> presence needs to correspond to the legal organization of the projects
>>>> themselves within Apache (although that should, of course, be
>>>> visible by
>>>> some
>>>> means as well for those that are interested).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: java name Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@4quarters.com>.
On Dec 24, 2003, at 12:03 PM, Morgan Delagrange wrote:
> I believe (but I Am Not A Lawyer) that we can use the
> term "Java" to describe something on the homepage, but
> that it cannot be the title of a project, nor could it
> be used as a domain name. Most sourceforge projects
> that do so are probably in error from a legal
> standpoint.
>
That is correct. You couldn't have JavaLogging or such, but could
describe it as 'logging solution for Java'.
geir
> Anyway, that old domain name was cheesy. :)
>
> - Morgan
>
> --- Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
>>
>> Any idea how exactly the java trademark works with
>> respect to our usage of
>> it?
>>
>> For example, if we're talking about language based
>> portals/foundries, can
>> we actually call it the 'Apache Java Portal'? Or
>> some such.
>>
>> How do Sourceforge get away with:
>>
>> http://java.foundries.sourceforge.net/ ?
>>
>> Presuming Jakarta remains as is, but some kind of
>> Java-ASF-portal is also
>> created, I'm just wondering how the word 'Java' can
>> be linked to the name
>> etc.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Greg Stein wrote:
>>
>>> We started with java.apache.org, but had to toss
>> it for trademark reasons.
>>> Thus, Jakarta was born.
>>>
>>> No going back now...
>>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
> =====
> Morgan Delagrange
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
> http://axion.tigris.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: java name Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Morgan Delagrange <md...@yahoo.com>.
I believe (but I Am Not A Lawyer) that we can use the
term "Java" to describe something on the homepage, but
that it cannot be the title of a project, nor could it
be used as a domain name. Most sourceforge projects
that do so are probably in error from a legal
standpoint.
Anyway, that old domain name was cheesy. :)
- Morgan
--- Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com> wrote:
>
> Any idea how exactly the java trademark works with
> respect to our usage of
> it?
>
> For example, if we're talking about language based
> portals/foundries, can
> we actually call it the 'Apache Java Portal'? Or
> some such.
>
> How do Sourceforge get away with:
>
> http://java.foundries.sourceforge.net/ ?
>
> Presuming Jakarta remains as is, but some kind of
> Java-ASF-portal is also
> created, I'm just wondering how the word 'Java' can
> be linked to the name
> etc.
>
> Hen
>
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Greg Stein wrote:
>
> > We started with java.apache.org, but had to toss
> it for trademark reasons.
> > Thus, Jakarta was born.
> >
> > No going back now...
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
=====
Morgan Delagrange
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
http://axion.tigris.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
java name Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Any idea how exactly the java trademark works with respect to our usage of
it?
For example, if we're talking about language based portals/foundries, can
we actually call it the 'Apache Java Portal'? Or some such.
How do Sourceforge get away with:
http://java.foundries.sourceforge.net/ ?
Presuming Jakarta remains as is, but some kind of Java-ASF-portal is also
created, I'm just wondering how the word 'Java' can be linked to the name
etc.
Hen
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Greg Stein wrote:
> We started with java.apache.org, but had to toss it for trademark reasons.
> Thus, Jakarta was born.
>
> No going back now...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
We started with java.apache.org, but had to toss it for trademark reasons.
Thus, Jakarta was born.
No going back now...
On Tue, Dec 23, 2003 at 12:44:58PM -0600, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> Perhaps this is a good reason to revive the java.apache.org site. This
> would allow jakarta to maintain a separate identity from all other java
> projects at apache.
>...
> Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> >Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
> >>>The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never
> >>>did) all of
> >>>the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before
> >>>subprojects
> >>>like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java code in
> >>>all
> >>>the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
> >>>graduated).
> >>
> >>That's not how I intended my comments to be taken. I would like Jakarta
> >>to keep its Java focus but I never meant that all Apache Java projects
> >>should be hosted by Jakarta.
> >
> >But I'm concerned that that's what outside people are likely to *assume* it
> >means, even though we all know better. In other words, they're going to think
> >it means "ALL things java@apache" instead of "SOME things java@apache".
>...
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
Hell ya. We can start this right away. Great idea, Geir.
"Now why didn't I think of that?" :-)
Cheers,
-g
p.s. note that Jakarta acting as a Java-based codebase federation is a
separate matter; the J PMC can deal with that...
On Tue, Dec 23, 2003 at 09:12:34PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> Why don't the various commons groups in the ASF just have the AC PMC
> add things on the A-C site and 'federate' that way? The respective
> PMCs would still do what they do - oversee the projects - and the AC
> PMC can maintain the website.
>
> geir
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:44 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> > Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> >
> >> I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
> >> "Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature.
> >
> >> if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta commons"
> >> could become a shared community, it would produce the following
> >> benefits
> >
> > Mark, what you are saying is basically supporting the notion of
> > decoupling
> > web presence from project oversight, and supporting the idea of
> > federation
> > instead of containment.
> >
> > A PMC oversees the code, resources, community for a project. There is
> > nothing that prevents them from federating to produce portals as you
> > describe. I have suggested it recently as one good approach.
> >
> > Without going into details right now comparing various plans, let me
> > note
> > that Federation is one approach being discussed on Jakarta General as
> > part
> > of a larger reorganization discussion.
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
> geir@4quarters.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
Hell ya. We can start this right away. Great idea, Geir.
"Now why didn't I think of that?" :-)
Cheers,
-g
p.s. note that Jakarta acting as a Java-based codebase federation is a
separate matter; the J PMC can deal with that...
On Tue, Dec 23, 2003 at 09:12:34PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> Why don't the various commons groups in the ASF just have the AC PMC
> add things on the A-C site and 'federate' that way? The respective
> PMCs would still do what they do - oversee the projects - and the AC
> PMC can maintain the website.
>
> geir
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:44 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>
> > Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> >
> >> I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
> >> "Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature.
> >
> >> if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta commons"
> >> could become a shared community, it would produce the following
> >> benefits
> >
> > Mark, what you are saying is basically supporting the notion of
> > decoupling
> > web presence from project oversight, and supporting the idea of
> > federation
> > instead of containment.
> >
> > A PMC oversees the code, resources, community for a project. There is
> > nothing that prevents them from federating to produce portals as you
> > describe. I have suggested it recently as one good approach.
> >
> > Without going into details right now comparing various plans, let me
> > note
> > that Federation is one approach being discussed on Jakarta General as
> > part
> > of a larger reorganization discussion.
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
> geir@4quarters.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
Quoting "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>:
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>
> > Why don't the various commons groups in the ASF just have the AC PMC
> > add things on the A-C site and 'federate' that way? The respective
> > PMCs would still do what they do - oversee the projects - and the AC
> > PMC can maintain the website.
>
> I don't see why not. That seems like a reasonable example, and way to
> explore this idea we've been talking about. Regardless of whether the PMC
> is Jakarta, XML, WS, A-C, J-C, etc. the A-C site could serve as a portal to
> commons code.
>
That can happen with *zero* organizational changes too.
Greg: community != developers
Craig: community != website
:-)
> FWIW, if codec wants to start using Subversion, why not? I think that it is
> important for everyone to start being exposed to it, even vicariously via
> seeing discussion and commit notices.
>
That's up to the codec committers to decide, if we assume that j-c is really a
fragmented bunch of mini-communities. If we think there is an overall j-c
community, IMHO that's the sort of thing one would assume is common to all of
them.
> --- Noel
>
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> Why don't the various commons groups in the ASF just have the AC PMC
> add things on the A-C site and 'federate' that way? The respective
> PMCs would still do what they do - oversee the projects - and the AC
> PMC can maintain the website.
I don't see why not. That seems like a reasonable example, and way to
explore this idea we've been talking about. Regardless of whether the PMC
is Jakarta, XML, WS, A-C, J-C, etc. the A-C site could serve as a portal to
commons code.
FWIW, if codec wants to start using Subversion, why not? I think that it is
important for everyone to start being exposed to it, even vicariously via
seeing discussion and commit notices.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@4quarters.com>.
Why don't the various commons groups in the ASF just have the AC PMC
add things on the A-C site and 'federate' that way? The respective
PMCs would still do what they do - oversee the projects - and the AC
PMC can maintain the website.
geir
On Dec 23, 2003, at 4:44 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
>> "Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature.
>
>> if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta commons"
>> could become a shared community, it would produce the following
>> benefits
>
> Mark, what you are saying is basically supporting the notion of
> decoupling
> web presence from project oversight, and supporting the idea of
> federation
> instead of containment.
>
> A PMC oversees the code, resources, community for a project. There is
> nothing that prevents them from federating to produce portals as you
> describe. I have suggested it recently as one good approach.
>
> Without going into details right now comparing various plans, let me
> note
> that Federation is one approach being discussed on Jakarta General as
> part
> of a larger reorganization discussion.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>
>>I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
>>"Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature.
>
>
>>if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta commons"
>>could become a shared community, it would produce the following
>>benefits
>
>
> Mark, what you are saying is basically supporting the notion of decoupling
> web presence from project oversight, and supporting the idea of federation
> instead of containment.
>
> A PMC oversees the code, resources, community for a project. There is
> nothing that prevents them from federating to produce portals as you
> describe. I have suggested it recently as one good approach.
>
> Without going into details right now comparing various plans, let me note
> that Federation is one approach being discussed on Jakarta General as part
> of a larger reorganization discussion.
>
> --- Noel
Well, I think thats a great idea and would wholly support such an
endeavor. I think this *federation* idea would eventually lead to a
solution that was really scalable and met everyones needs.
To note: What I was presenting actually extends beyond "web presence"
and more into project structure, packaging and deployment. Web presence
is one thing, componentization and ease of reuse is more integral to how
Apache projects "relate" to one another and are successfully reused.
With J-C, the migration to project management with Maven is really
helping to standardize the structure and packaging of the components.
Eventually, if this can benefit other TLP's and their subprojects, then
that just scales the reusability out even further, again without having
to "restructure" anything really at all. And, I suspect this even goes
further, many projects on Sourceforge and java.net are relying on this
componentization and reusing these components even outside of Apache. I
know I have. Kudos to those Maven Guys.
-Mark
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
> "Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature.
> if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta commons"
> could become a shared community, it would produce the following
> benefits
Mark, what you are saying is basically supporting the notion of decoupling
web presence from project oversight, and supporting the idea of federation
instead of containment.
A PMC oversees the code, resources, community for a project. There is
nothing that prevents them from federating to produce portals as you
describe. I have suggested it recently as one good approach.
Without going into details right now comparing various plans, let me note
that Federation is one approach being discussed on Jakarta General as part
of a larger reorganization discussion.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Virtual Commons!!!!! (was Re: What is Jakarta Commons?)
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Hello all,
The ultimate goal of any "Commons" is to develop a shared codebase of
components that are not large enough to be maintained on their own, and
reduce "replication of functionality" in separate projects. This is not
only "integral" to a healthy developing codebase at Apache, it is
necessary for maturation of the Apache codebase from a "bunch of
widgets" to a "well oiled machine".
I personally think that the idea of "Commons" should become more
"Virtual" and "Evolutionary" in nature. That maybe there should be less
"restrictions" on its location and development. Forget the issues of
being programming language "agnostic" or programming language "specific"
and consider the value that would be "gained" by sharing such communities.
For instance, if theres ever the case that "xml commons" and "jakarta
commons" could become a shared community, it would produce the following
benefits:
1.) A reduction in "duplication" of content between the xml and jakarta
communities.
2.) A shared usage of the codebases would produce tools that are clearly
defined and work well together.
3.) An optimization of programmer effort, time spent by programmers
separately maintaining duplicate codesbases is reduced.
With this in mind, the idea of an "Apache Commons" becomes logical.
BUT... not as a place that all "Commons" get migrated to and housed at
under one PMC, but more as a "Virtual Collection" of all the "Commons"
projects at Apache. Literally, just being a "Portal" to the individual
Commons sites. In fact, instead of migrating all "Common" code to "One
place", maybe it would be more logical to allow it to be maintained
under the foundry or TLP project that produced it and simple provide
such a "Symlinking" of the codebase into the Commons such that other
projects are aware of its existence and availability.
Apache Commons:
--> Jakarta Commons
--> subprojects
--> XML Commons
--> subprojects
--> TLP Project
--> TLP projects shared common codebase.
This way shared code is managed and packaged by its creators, but
advertised for reusage by the Commons.
Eventually alot of valuable lessons learned by the various commons
projects would give rise to a standard project layout and packaging
requirement for a codebase which is to be maintained as a Commons
Codebase. In essence, this is not much different conceptually than the
idea of COM and dynamic linking. The goal being, not to make every
project house its common codebase in one specific location (which is
totally unscalable) but to define logical rules for the "structure",
"building", "packaging" of a Common Component such that it can be reused
by other tools. In reality, isn't this what is being promoted through
Maven, both with the idea of a Maven Repository and a Standard project
layout and building strategy?
With this in mind I say the following:
1. "Common Codebases" can (and should) be maintained anywhere in Apache,
but be advertised in a registered location (like Apache Commons) and
yet be maintained by their individual developers in their location of
origin.
2. "Common Codebases" should be structured, built and packaged based on
a "clearly defined specification" such that they can be published in
repositories and easily rebuild and repackaged.
-Mark Diggory
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://osprey.hmdc.harvard.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> Perhaps this is a good reason to revive the java.apache.org site.
You mean "java(tm).apache.org"? :-)
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
Perhaps this is a good reason to revive the java.apache.org site. This
would allow jakarta to maintain a separate identity from all other java
projects at apache.
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
>
>
>>>The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never
>>>did) all of
>>>the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before
>>>subprojects
>>>like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java code in
>>>all
>>>the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
>>>graduated).
>>>
>>>
>>That's not how I intended my comments to be taken. I would like Jakarta
>>to keep its Java focus but I never meant that all Apache Java projects
>>should be hosted by Jakarta.
>>
>>
>>
>
>But I'm concerned that that's what outside people are likely to *assume* it
>means, even though we all know better. In other words, they're going to think
>it means "ALL things java@apache" instead of "SOME things java@apache".
>
>
>
>>David
>>
>>
>>
>
>Craig
>
>
>
>
>>>Is someone who comes to the Jakarta home page going to find out they can
>>>download, say, an SVG viewer that is written in Java (Batik)?
>>>
>>>I would agree that a web presence that let people identify all the
>>>Java-based
>>>projects (or a search capability that lets you specify implementation
>>>language
>>>as a criteria) would be a very useful feature. I don't believe that
>>>such a web
>>>presence needs to correspond to the legal organization of the projects
>>>themselves within Apache (although that should, of course, be visible by
>>>some
>>>means as well for those that are interested).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
>
> --- "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
> >
> > >
> > > --- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > > > From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > > > > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the
> > Java
> > > > > language, intended for use in server-related development, and
> > designed
> > > > to
> > > > > be used independently of any larger product or framework."
> > > > >
> > > > > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> > > > > statement?
> > > > The "intended for use in server-related development" is not
> > something I
> > > > believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit
> > which we
> > > > don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps
> > slightly
> > > > too
> > > > tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
> > >
> > > Jakarta is, and IMO should remain, a Java only project. This is not
> > > SourceForge.
> > >
> >
> > The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never
> > did) all of
> > the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before
> > subprojects
> > like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java code in
> > all
> > the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
> > graduated).
>
> That's not how I intended my comments to be taken. I would like Jakarta
> to keep its Java focus but I never meant that all Apache Java projects
> should be hosted by Jakarta.
>
But I'm concerned that that's what outside people are likely to *assume* it
means, even though we all know better. In other words, they're going to think
it means "ALL things java@apache" instead of "SOME things java@apache".
> David
>
Craig
> >
> > Is someone who comes to the Jakarta home page going to find out they can
> > download, say, an SVG viewer that is written in Java (Batik)?
> >
> > I would agree that a web presence that let people identify all the
> > Java-based
> > projects (or a search capability that lets you specify implementation
> > language
> > as a criteria) would be a very useful feature. I don't believe that
> > such a web
> > presence needs to correspond to the legal organization of the projects
> > themselves within Apache (although that should, of course, be visible by
> > some
> > means as well for those that are interested).
> >
> > > David
> >
> > Craig
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:38, __matthewHawthorne wrote:
> Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> > Hi Tim,
> > Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
> >
> > On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> >>Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
> >>start using it in production systems.
> >>
> >>Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> >>alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
>
>
> I use betwixt in production, and would be willing to help push for a
> release. It would be nice if Robert or Martin could create a roadmap of
> sorts which could identify all of the works in progress and other things
> necessary for a betwixt 1.0 release.
>
Too bad we don't have jira yet, it has some nice roadmap features.. See for the rest my reply to Tim...
Mvgr,
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by __matthewHawthorne <ma...@phreaker.net>.
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
>
> On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
>>Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
>>start using it in production systems.
>>
>>Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
>>alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
I use betwixt in production, and would be willing to help push for a
release. It would be nice if Robert or Martin could create a roadmap of
sorts which could identify all of the works in progress and other things
necessary for a betwixt 1.0 release.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
[codec] author tags to be removed
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
As per the discussions, @author tags are going away. Anyone listed in an
author tag who is not in the project.xml will be added.
This is a small matter, but if anyone objects, do so within the next day.
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
We started before codehaus was there on the servers of Bob under
xulux.org. After the move from nyx.xulux.org to xulux.org and the first
release, I will personally see to it, that I make as much noise as
possible to get me some users, besides myself :)
Mvgr,
Martin
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 18:09, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
> > I will also check to see how good the testcoverage is, since I lost
> > track of that a long time ago :)
>
> I'll gladly help out with increasing coverage. :-)
>
> <OFF-TOPIC>
> How come Xulux isn't linked from Codehaus frontpage?
> </OFF-TOPIC>
>
> Tim
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>
mvdb.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> I will also check to see how good the testcoverage is, since I lost
> track of that a long time ago :)
I'll gladly help out with increasing coverage. :-)
<OFF-TOPIC>
How come Xulux isn't linked from Codehaus frontpage?
</OFF-TOPIC>
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
I am not monitoring the a-c / j-c debate too specific (just if I want
some destraction from a programming problem) :).
It's not that I don't care about it, just care more about programming
till I drop :).
For a release we absolutely need Robert (at least pending changes, and
current todo's), since he did the last big refactor. I will try to reach
him in private to ask, just in case he is not able to monitor the list
because of lack of time..
I would like to move bugzilla issues out of the way before a release.
Robert probabably should close one, the rest has my attention :).
I will also check to see how good the testcoverage is, since I lost
track of that a long time ago :)
Mvgr,
Martin
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:38, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> Understood. I'm in the same boat as you.
>
> Let me know if you need any release support. In the meantime, if you find
> yourself overburdened, let's start delegating.
>
> I'm surprised that we have enough time to talk about all these
> philosophical J-C vs. A-C issues, or even debating author tags when
> something as important as Betwixt sits in an Alpha for so long.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
> > on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
> > new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but that
> > is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
> > Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
> > other projects.
> > So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then when
> > I can schedule a betwixt night.
> >
> > Mvgr,
> > Martin
> >
> > On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> > > Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
> > > start using it in production systems.
> > >
> > > Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> > > alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
--
Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>
mvdb.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
If you could put your refactorings in a branch, that would be very cool
(easier to merge from / to head). My time is limited too (I am moving in
a couple of weeks), but I'll see if I can find the time to get some
betwixt work done.
Maybe an update on IRC ?
Mvgr,
Martin
On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 22:19, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i've now realized that releasing the alpha was a major mistake: it
> should have been a 0.1 release. it's reasonable solid as far as it
> goes.
>
> the problem is that the code needs a *lot* of refactoring before the
> functionality that consider the minimal for a full release can be
> added. there's also going to be a lot of deprecated code that will need
> to be removed before it's ready. this means that probably one or two
> minor 0.x releases would be needed. (a secondary issue is that now i'm
> not on the pmc i don't feel able to cast binding vote on legally
> important issues or cut releases so even if the work was done, someone
> else would need to act as release manager.)
>
> i've been working on a major refactoring of betwixt for a long time now
> but i've also got a number of local versions with extra bits and pieces
> in. unfortunately, too much of my time has been taken up with jakarta
> stuff in the last few months and i haven't been able to sort out this
> mess :(
>
> now that i've finished with that, i should have more coding time :)
>
> i've made some progress on the refactoring recently but i've neglected
> a lot of other projects i'm interested in and have a lot of catching up
> to do.
>
> realistically i'm not going to be in a position to put the refactored
> stuff in cvs for a while yet. (i'm very committed to backwards
> compatibility and the final details of the design aren't clear in my
> mind yet though the broad outline is). if there's interest from other
> committers i could think about tidying the refactored stuff up and
> putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
>
> - robert
>
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 14:38, Tim O'Brien wrote:
>
> > Understood. I'm in the same boat as you.
> >
> > Let me know if you need any release support. In the meantime, if you
> > find
> > yourself overburdened, let's start delegating.
> >
> > I'm surprised that we have enough time to talk about all these
> > philosophical J-C vs. A-C issues, or even debating author tags when
> > something as important as Betwixt sits in an Alpha for so long.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Tim,
> >>
> >> On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
> >> on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
> >> new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but
> >> that
> >> is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
> >> Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
> >> other projects.
> >> So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then
> >> when
> >> I can schedule a betwixt night.
> >>
> >> Mvgr,
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> >>> Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would
> >>> like to
> >>> start using it in production systems.
> >>>
> >>> Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> >>> alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------
> > Tim O'Brien
> > Evanston, IL
> > (847) 863-7045
> > tobrien@discursive.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Mvgr,
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > if there's interest from other committers i could think about tidying
the refactored stuff up and
> > putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
>
> I think this may be the best idea. Or, you could create an
> experimental/refactoring directory in CVS and put the code in there.
You could consider a new sandbox project. Then you don't worry about
compatability. (Its what I'd do...)
Stephen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by __matthewHawthorne <ma...@phreaker.net>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> if there's interest from other committers i could think about tidying the refactored stuff up and
> putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
I think this may be the best idea. Or, you could create an
experimental/refactoring directory in CVS and put the code in there.
I've had no time to work on Jakarta stuff lately, but I use Betwixt and
am interested in helping to get a release going.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Btw I am going to use commons-sql (at least a choice for now) for my
work, which depends on betwixt, so with a bit of luck I can do some
betwixt during office hours...
Mvgr,
Martin
On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 23:31, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 6 Jan 2004, at 02:50, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
>
> > I am a happy betwixt user and would be happy to take a more active
> > role sometime in late January.
>
> cool. more hands, eyes and brains would be great :)
>
> > What are your concerns with betwixt as it is now?
>
> too many to list quickly. it took me a long time to understand a little
> about what a start-from-java mapper needs to do. now i think i have an
> idea, the current betwixt internal structure isn't strong and simple
> enough to support it.
>
> there are some list of planned features on the todo list in the
> documentation.
>
> the refactoring i've been (slowly) doing is a complete rewrite (again)
> of the xml reading code.
>
> > Perhaps a little road map?
>
> i'd suggest that we start off as martin says: i'll tidy up my
> refactored code and create a branch this weekend. we'll get together
> for a chat on IRC sometime next week or weekend.
>
> i know that some people want (and possibly need) a proper (non-alpha)
> release. the code in cvs head is probably good enough for a 0.1 or 0.5
> release but some other committer would need to manage it. this could be
> done as soon as convenient. (the more advanced refactored stuff would
> be on the branch.)
>
> > Do we have a wiki?
>
> probably :)
>
> but IIRC the apache wiki's (does anyone know more?) are being
> restructured so maybe it'd be a good idea to hold off until the dust
> settles
>
> - robert
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Mvgr,
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 6 Jan 2004, at 02:50, Ryan Hoegg wrote:
> I am a happy betwixt user and would be happy to take a more active
> role sometime in late January.
cool. more hands, eyes and brains would be great :)
> What are your concerns with betwixt as it is now?
too many to list quickly. it took me a long time to understand a little
about what a start-from-java mapper needs to do. now i think i have an
idea, the current betwixt internal structure isn't strong and simple
enough to support it.
there are some list of planned features on the todo list in the
documentation.
the refactoring i've been (slowly) doing is a complete rewrite (again)
of the xml reading code.
> Perhaps a little road map?
i'd suggest that we start off as martin says: i'll tidy up my
refactored code and create a branch this weekend. we'll get together
for a chat on IRC sometime next week or weekend.
i know that some people want (and possibly need) a proper (non-alpha)
release. the code in cvs head is probably good enough for a 0.1 or 0.5
release but some other committer would need to manage it. this could be
done as soon as convenient. (the more advanced refactored stuff would
be on the branch.)
> Do we have a wiki?
probably :)
but IIRC the apache wiki's (does anyone know more?) are being
restructured so maybe it'd be a good idea to hold off until the dust
settles
- robert
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
I am a happy betwixt user and would be happy to take a more active role
sometime in late January. What are your concerns with betwixt as it is
now? Perhaps a little road map? Do we have a wiki?
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i've now realized that releasing the alpha was a major mistake: it
> should have been a 0.1 release. it's reasonable solid as far as it goes.
>
> the problem is that the code needs a *lot* of refactoring before the
> functionality that consider the minimal for a full release can be
> added. there's also going to be a lot of deprecated code that will
> need to be removed before it's ready. this means that probably one or
> two minor 0.x releases would be needed. (a secondary issue is that now
> i'm not on the pmc i don't feel able to cast binding vote on legally
> important issues or cut releases so even if the work was done, someone
> else would need to act as release manager.)
>
> i've been working on a major refactoring of betwixt for a long time
> now but i've also got a number of local versions with extra bits and
> pieces in. unfortunately, too much of my time has been taken up with
> jakarta stuff in the last few months and i haven't been able to sort
> out this mess :(
>
> now that i've finished with that, i should have more coding time :)
>
> i've made some progress on the refactoring recently but i've neglected
> a lot of other projects i'm interested in and have a lot of catching
> up to do.
>
> realistically i'm not going to be in a position to put the refactored
> stuff in cvs for a while yet. (i'm very committed to backwards
> compatibility and the final details of the design aren't clear in my
> mind yet though the broad outline is). if there's interest from other
> committers i could think about tidying the refactored stuff up and
> putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
RE: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> a secondary issue is that now i'm not on the pmc
Hopefully you'll correct that soon. The goal is to have most Jakarta
Committers on the PMC by end of month.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
Robert, please, at the very least, put the code up somewhere for
inspection.
BTW, Your work has been invaluable, and J-C, in your absence, has
suffered.
Tim
On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i've now realized that releasing the alpha was a major mistake: it
> should have been a 0.1 release. it's reasonable solid as far as it
> goes.
>
> the problem is that the code needs a *lot* of refactoring before the
> functionality that consider the minimal for a full release can be
> added. there's also going to be a lot of deprecated code that will need
> to be removed before it's ready. this means that probably one or two
> minor 0.x releases would be needed. (a secondary issue is that now i'm
> not on the pmc i don't feel able to cast binding vote on legally
> important issues or cut releases so even if the work was done, someone
> else would need to act as release manager.)
>
> i've been working on a major refactoring of betwixt for a long time now
> but i've also got a number of local versions with extra bits and pieces
> in. unfortunately, too much of my time has been taken up with jakarta
> stuff in the last few months and i haven't been able to sort out this
> mess :(
>
> now that i've finished with that, i should have more coding time :)
>
> i've made some progress on the refactoring recently but i've neglected
> a lot of other projects i'm interested in and have a lot of catching up
> to do.
>
> realistically i'm not going to be in a position to put the refactored
> stuff in cvs for a while yet. (i'm very committed to backwards
> compatibility and the final details of the design aren't clear in my
> mind yet though the broad outline is). if there's interest from other
> committers i could think about tidying the refactored stuff up and
> putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
>
> - robert
>
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 14:38, Tim O'Brien wrote:
>
> > Understood. I'm in the same boat as you.
> >
> > Let me know if you need any release support. In the meantime, if you
> > find
> > yourself overburdened, let's start delegating.
> >
> > I'm surprised that we have enough time to talk about all these
> > philosophical J-C vs. A-C issues, or even debating author tags when
> > something as important as Betwixt sits in an Alpha for so long.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Tim,
> >>
> >> On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
> >> on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
> >> new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but
> >> that
> >> is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
> >> Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
> >> other projects.
> >> So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then
> >> when
> >> I can schedule a betwixt night.
> >>
> >> Mvgr,
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> >>> Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would
> >>> like to
> >>> start using it in production systems.
> >>>
> >>> Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> >>> alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------
> > Tim O'Brien
> > Evanston, IL
> > (847) 863-7045
> > tobrien@discursive.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
--
----------------------
Tim O'Brien
Evanston, IL
(847) 863-7045
tobrien@discursive.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
i've now realized that releasing the alpha was a major mistake: it
should have been a 0.1 release. it's reasonable solid as far as it
goes.
the problem is that the code needs a *lot* of refactoring before the
functionality that consider the minimal for a full release can be
added. there's also going to be a lot of deprecated code that will need
to be removed before it's ready. this means that probably one or two
minor 0.x releases would be needed. (a secondary issue is that now i'm
not on the pmc i don't feel able to cast binding vote on legally
important issues or cut releases so even if the work was done, someone
else would need to act as release manager.)
i've been working on a major refactoring of betwixt for a long time now
but i've also got a number of local versions with extra bits and pieces
in. unfortunately, too much of my time has been taken up with jakarta
stuff in the last few months and i haven't been able to sort out this
mess :(
now that i've finished with that, i should have more coding time :)
i've made some progress on the refactoring recently but i've neglected
a lot of other projects i'm interested in and have a lot of catching up
to do.
realistically i'm not going to be in a position to put the refactored
stuff in cvs for a while yet. (i'm very committed to backwards
compatibility and the final details of the design aren't clear in my
mind yet though the broad outline is). if there's interest from other
committers i could think about tidying the refactored stuff up and
putting it into a branch so that we can talk about the design.
- robert
On 29 Dec 2003, at 14:38, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> Understood. I'm in the same boat as you.
>
> Let me know if you need any release support. In the meantime, if you
> find
> yourself overburdened, let's start delegating.
>
> I'm surprised that we have enough time to talk about all these
> philosophical J-C vs. A-C issues, or even debating author tags when
> something as important as Betwixt sits in an Alpha for so long.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
>> on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
>> new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but
>> that
>> is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
>> Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
>> other projects.
>> So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then
>> when
>> I can schedule a betwixt night.
>>
>> Mvgr,
>> Martin
>>
>> On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
>>> Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would
>>> like to
>>> start using it in production systems.
>>>
>>> Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
>>> alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
> --
> ----------------------
> Tim O'Brien
> Evanston, IL
> (847) 863-7045
> tobrien@discursive.com
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
Understood. I'm in the same boat as you.
Let me know if you need any release support. In the meantime, if you find
yourself overburdened, let's start delegating.
I'm surprised that we have enough time to talk about all these
philosophical J-C vs. A-C issues, or even debating author tags when
something as important as Betwixt sits in an Alpha for so long.
Tim
On 29 Dec 2003, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
> on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
> new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but that
> is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
> Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
> other projects.
> So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then when
> I can schedule a betwixt night.
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> > Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
> > start using it in production systems.
> >
> > Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> > alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
--
----------------------
Tim O'Brien
Evanston, IL
(847) 863-7045
tobrien@discursive.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: [betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Hi Tim,
On my part that almost all my "resources" go to my gui framework xulux
on codehaus, my work, my newly acquired family and preparation for my
new house. I try to organize a "betwixt" night so now and then, but that
is hardly enough time to get a new release out the door.
Robert is probably busy (or on a holiday?) and James has moved on to
other projects.
So currently betwixt is a bit asleep and wakes up so know and then when
I can schedule a betwixt night.
Mvgr,
Martin
On Tue, 2003-12-23 at 19:55, Tim O'Brien wrote:
> Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
> start using it in production systems.
>
> Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
> alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
>
> Tim
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>
mvdb.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
[betwixt] Status of Betwixt
Posted by Tim O'Brien <to...@discursive.com>.
Betwixt is a very useful component, and a number of people would like to
start using it in production systems.
Could someone give a quick update as to why Betwixt is still at a 1.0
alpha? and, also provide a timeline for a 1.0 release.
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
>
> >
> > --- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > > From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > > > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the
> Java
> > > > language, intended for use in server-related development, and
> designed
> > > to
> > > > be used independently of any larger product or framework."
> > > >
> > > > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> > > > statement?
> > > The "intended for use in server-related development" is not
> something I
> > > believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit
> which we
> > > don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps
> slightly
> > > too
> > > tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
> >
> > Jakarta is, and IMO should remain, a Java only project. This is not
> > SourceForge.
> >
>
> The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never
> did) all of
> the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before
> subprojects
> like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java code in
> all
> the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
> graduated).
That's not how I intended my comments to be taken. I would like Jakarta
to keep its Java focus but I never meant that all Apache Java projects
should be hosted by Jakarta.
David
>
> Is someone who comes to the Jakarta home page going to find out they can
> download, say, an SVG viewer that is written in Java (Batik)?
>
> I would agree that a web presence that let people identify all the
> Java-based
> projects (or a search capability that lets you specify implementation
> language
> as a criteria) would be a very useful feature. I don't believe that
> such a web
> presence needs to correspond to the legal organization of the projects
> themselves within Apache (although that should, of course, be visible by
> some
> means as well for those that are interested).
>
> > David
>
> Craig
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
Quoting David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>:
>
> --- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> > From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the Java
> > > language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed
> > to
> > > be used independently of any larger product or framework."
> > >
> > > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> > > statement?
> > The "intended for use in server-related development" is not something I
> > believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit which we
> > don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps slightly
> > too
> > tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
>
> Jakarta is, and IMO should remain, a Java only project. This is not
> SourceForge.
>
The challenge is, of course, that Jakarta doesn't contain (and never did) all of
the "written in the Java language" software at Apache. Even before subprojects
like Ant, James, and Maven graduated to TLPs, there was the Java code in all
the xml.apache.org project (including Cocoon early on, but that's also
graduated).
Is someone who comes to the Jakarta home page going to find out they can
download, say, an SVG viewer that is written in Java (Batik)?
I would agree that a web presence that let people identify all the Java-based
projects (or a search capability that lets you specify implementation language
as a criteria) would be a very useful feature. I don't believe that such a web
presence needs to correspond to the legal organization of the projects
themselves within Apache (although that should, of course, be visible by some
means as well for those that are interested).
> David
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the Java
> > language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed
> to
> > be used independently of any larger product or framework."
> >
> > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> > statement?
> The "intended for use in server-related development" is not something I
> believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit which we
> don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps slightly
> too
> tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
Jakarta is, and IMO should remain, a Java only project. This is not
SourceForge.
David
>
> Less importantly, the name 'package' is confusing, and component or
> product
> might make more sense.
>
> I'm not proposing radical change, just a tidying up of the charter,
> especially to eliminate the parts that are clearly wrong. References to
> "sponsoring subproject" and "catalog packages and other resources" are
> especially inaccurate.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Morgan Delagrange <md...@yahoo.com>.
--- Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>
wrote:
> From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> > "The subproject shall create and maintain packages
> written in the Java
> > language, intended for use in server-related
> development, and designed to
> > be used independently of any larger product or
> framework."
> >
> > in what way is anything in j-c "specifically
> different" from that
> > statement?
> The "intended for use in server-related development"
> is not something I
> believe we should have any more. It creates an
> artificial limit which we
> don't need. The "written in the Java language" is
> also perhaps slightly too
> tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
>
> Less importantly, the name 'package' is confusing,
> and component or product
> might make more sense.
>
> I'm not proposing radical change, just a tidying up
> of the charter,
> especially to eliminate the parts that are clearly
> wrong. References to
> "sponsoring subproject" and "catalog packages and
> other resources" are
> especially inaccurate.
>
> Stephen
The references to a sponsoring subproject are not
inaccurate. If you look more closely at the context,
the charter does not say that all Commons components
need a sponsoring subproject. All it says it that you
can't release project from the sandbox; they must be
integrated into another existing Jakarta subproject or
voted into the Commons Proper. The charter mentions
the concept of a "sponsor" twice, and in both cases
it's in reference to releasing code from the sandbox.
References to "the directory" are indeed inaccurate.
They indicate a portion of the project that never took
off.
- Morgan
=====
Morgan Delagrange
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons
http://axion.tigris.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
From: "Rodney Waldhoff" <rw...@apache.org>
> "The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the Java
> language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed to
> be used independently of any larger product or framework."
>
> in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
> statement?
The "intended for use in server-related development" is not something I
believe we should have any more. It creates an artificial limit which we
don't need. The "written in the Java language" is also perhaps slightly too
tight, as we shouldn't exclude [daemon].
Less importantly, the name 'package' is confusing, and component or product
might make more sense.
I'm not proposing radical change, just a tidying up of the charter,
especially to eliminate the parts that are clearly wrong. References to
"sponsoring subproject" and "catalog packages and other resources" are
especially inaccurate.
Stephen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org>.
I don't follow.
The current Jakarta Commons charter reads (under "scope of the
subproject"):
"The subproject shall create and maintain packages written in the Java
language, intended for use in server-related development, and designed to
be used independently of any larger product or framework."
in what way is anything in j-c "specifically different" from that
statement?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> Jakarta is having trouble redefining what is truly stands for. I had hoped
> that in Jakarta-Commons we knew. However, since its specifically different
> to what is in the charter, I guess we should decide. And then update the
> charter. http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html
>
> >From the websites:
> 'small scale, reusable, code components that are useful in multiple Jakarta
> subprojects'
>
> 'focused on all aspects of reusable Java components'
>
> 'creating and maintaining reusable Java components'
>
> 'collaboration and sharing, where developers from throughout the Jakarta
> community can work together on projects to be shared by the Jakarta projects
> and Jakarta users'
>
>
> There are other practical ways to define it. Each J-C component has
> insufficient community on its own to survive at Apache, either as an
> independent TLP or within another TLP. Yet within J-C the component is
> supported and watched over. For example, one way to view this is by mailing
> lists. If each commons component had its own mailing list, then most would
> be very quiet. Not enough to stand alone.
>
> My preferred short definition of J-C is:
> 'creating and maintaining small-scale, reusable, utility components written
> in Java'
>
> Is this definition OK? Any comments?
> Stephen
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
- Rod <http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Dirk Verbeeck wrote:
> > My preferred short definition of J-C is:
> > 'creating and maintaining small-scale, reusable, utility components written
> > in Java'
>
> Sounds OK, we should also update the commons homepage, there are also
> a couple of outdated statements on that page.
+1 to both comments.
[on the charter]
For example, I've never seen a 'sponsoring sub-project' looking after a
codebase in Commons (1.5.1).
I'm not sure if 1.5.2 has happened or not. Unsure exactly what it means.
(2) JNDI and Naming was not an initial source.
(3) Mailing lists not correctly listed.
(3.4) No Jyve.
It'd be interesting to go over the 'Guidelines' and make sure that the new
mavenised projects are successfully obeying all of them [and that the old
ones are].
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Dirk Verbeeck <di...@pandora.be>.
> My preferred short definition of J-C is:
> 'creating and maintaining small-scale, reusable, utility components written
> in Java'
Sounds OK, we should also update the commons homepage, there are also
a couple of outdated statements on that page.
-- Dirk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: What is Jakarta Commons?
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
"Stephen Colebourne" <sc...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:004101c3c6ed$1365e6e0$cd5c8051@oemcomputer...
> Jakarta is having trouble redefining what is truly stands for. I had hoped
> that in Jakarta-Commons we knew. However, since its specifically different
> to what is in the charter, I guess we should decide. And then update the
> charter. http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/charter.html
>
> From the websites:
> 'small scale, reusable, code components that are useful in multiple
Jakarta
> subprojects'
>
> 'focused on all aspects of reusable Java components'
>
> 'creating and maintaining reusable Java components'
>
> 'collaboration and sharing, where developers from throughout the Jakarta
> community can work together on projects to be shared by the Jakarta
projects
> and Jakarta users'
>
>
> There are other practical ways to define it. Each J-C component has
> insufficient community on its own to survive at Apache, either as an
> independent TLP or within another TLP. Yet within J-C the component is
> supported and watched over. For example, one way to view this is by
mailing
> lists. If each commons component had its own mailing list, then most would
> be very quiet. Not enough to stand alone.
>
> My preferred short definition of J-C is:
> 'creating and maintaining small-scale, reusable, utility components
written
> in Java'
>
> Is this definition OK? Any comments?
This pretty much boots Daemon out of J-C, which would be IMHO would be a
shame. Almost of the (supported) code in Daemon is written in C (basically,
JNI wrappers to solve OS level restrictions on Java code), so it wouldn't
fit the definition. However, it is most definitely Java-centric, so I'd be
happiest if it stayed in Jakarta.
I'm only a developer for Daemon, so I don't get to vote on its future. And
if it is booted out to A-C, then I'll follow it there. But I think that
it's best fit is with Jakarta.
> Stephen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org