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Posted to users@directory.apache.org by Manoj Khangaonkar <kh...@gmail.com> on 2011/05/17 23:54:15 UTC
LDAP scalability
Hi ,
I am evaluating LDAP in general (Apache DS as possible LDAP) for use
as a user repository to be used for authentication /authorization for
a large scale web application.
The choice is RDBMS vs LDAP vs NoSQL.
I am well aware that LDAP is used by large enterprises. These
enterprises have typically thousands of users.
But have not seen it referenced in large scale web application
architectures - such as those at google , facebook, linkedin which
deal
with millions of users. ( They might be using ldap but I have not seen
anything on the web that says they do)
Can LDAP in general and Apache DS in particular scale to millions of
users ? Are there any blogs/articles on web that talk of LDAP use in
architectures of very large scale.
thanks
--
http://khangaonkar.blogspot.com/
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Manoj Khangaonkar <kh...@gmail.com>.
Emmanuel & Bren,
Thanks for the responses. They were helpful.
Manoj
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Bren Norris <br...@measanctum.com> wrote:
> Thank you very much sir! :)
>
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/11 1:13 AM, Bren Norris wrote:
>>
>>> Oh and on a side note, never have I seen facebook directly disclose its
>>> infrastructure.
>>>
>> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Facebook-Software-Stack
>>
>> But it was back in 2009...
>>
>> Yes there are rumours it uses a mySQL database however I say
>>> that (a) it is a rumour and (b) it would be highly modified.
>>>
>> (a) is not a rumor :) and (b) is true...
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Cordialement,
>> Emmanuel Lécharny
>> www.iktek.com
>>
>>
>
--
http://khangaonkar.blogspot.com/
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Bren Norris <br...@measanctum.com>.
Thank you very much sir! :)
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>wrote:
> On 5/18/11 1:13 AM, Bren Norris wrote:
>
>> Oh and on a side note, never have I seen facebook directly disclose its
>> infrastructure.
>>
> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Facebook-Software-Stack
>
> But it was back in 2009...
>
> Yes there are rumours it uses a mySQL database however I say
>> that (a) it is a rumour and (b) it would be highly modified.
>>
> (a) is not a rumor :) and (b) is true...
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel Lécharny
> www.iktek.com
>
>
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Emmanuel Lécharny <el...@apache.org>.
On 5/18/11 1:13 AM, Bren Norris wrote:
> Oh and on a side note, never have I seen facebook directly disclose its
> infrastructure.
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Facebook-Software-Stack
But it was back in 2009...
> Yes there are rumours it uses a mySQL database however I say
> that (a) it is a rumour and (b) it would be highly modified.
(a) is not a rumor :) and (b) is true...
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Bren Norris <br...@measanctum.com>.
Oh and on a side note, never have I seen facebook directly disclose its
infrastructure. Yes there are rumours it uses a mySQL database however I say
that (a) it is a rumour and (b) it would be highly modified.
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Bren Norris <br...@measanctum.com>wrote:
> Here's one for you guys.
>
> Blizzard, the entertainment guru's had the following appear on their
> website which is ample evidence to suggest they are using LDAP for their
> member infrastructure.
> http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325095821
>
> What emmanual has said is correct, sensitive infrastructures aren't openly
> discussed.
>
> That reflects an infrastructure of users which includes all the players of
> "Starcraft II", "World of Warcraft" (16.7 million users) So there you go,
> now in the multiples of millions and outside the hundreds of thousands with
> a subscription value of over $334 million USD.
>
> ;)
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/11 11:54 PM, Manoj Khangaonkar wrote:
>>
>>> Hi ,
>>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> I am evaluating LDAP in general (Apache DS as possible LDAP) for use
>>> as a user repository to be used for authentication /authorization for
>>> a large scale web application.
>>>
>>> The choice is RDBMS vs LDAP vs NoSQL.
>>>
>> It's not really a choice. LDAP is the only pristine solution when it comes
>> to manage authentication and authorization. Using a RDBMS or a NoSQL system
>> implies you build a authn/authz solution on top of it (I'm not talking about
>> LDAP over a RDBMS)
>>
>> I am well aware that LDAP is used by large enterprises. These
>>> enterprises have typically thousands of users.
>>>
>> Hundred of thousands, and I have seen big telco companies using LDAP for
>> more than 70 000 000 users...
>>
>>
>> But have not seen it referenced in large scale web application
>>> architectures - such as those at google , facebook, linkedin which
>>> deal
>>> with millions of users. ( They might be using ldap but I have not seen
>>> anything on the web that says they do)
>>>
>>
>> Probably because they don't necessarily want to expose such a sensitive
>> part of their IT, but most certainly because they need a highly replicated
>> system.
>>
>> Can LDAP in general and Apache DS in particular scale to millions of
>>> users ?
>>>
>> Base line, yes. Dealing with millions of users is not really an issue.
>> What is important here is not the number of users, but much more the
>> operation per second you want to process on the LDAP server. On a laptop,
>> OpenLDAP currently deal with up to 10 000 authentication *per second*, and
>> with ApacheDS, last time I conducted a test (last year), it was around 4 500
>> authentication per second.
>>
>>
>> Are there any blogs/articles on web that talk of LDAP use in
>>> architectures of very large scale.
>>>
>> Not that I know of. But the next LDAP conference (in Germany,
>> http://www.daasi.de/ldapcon2011/) might see some talks about such a
>> thing.
>>
>> Hope it helps.
>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Cordialement,
>> Emmanuel Lécharny
>> www.iktek.com
>>
>>
>
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Bren Norris <br...@measanctum.com>.
Here's one for you guys.
Blizzard, the entertainment guru's had the following appear on their website
which is ample evidence to suggest they are using LDAP for their member
infrastructure.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2325095821
What emmanual has said is correct, sensitive infrastructures aren't openly
discussed.
That reflects an infrastructure of users which includes all the players of
"Starcraft II", "World of Warcraft" (16.7 million users) So there you go,
now in the multiples of millions and outside the hundreds of thousands with
a subscription value of over $334 million USD.
;)
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On 5/17/11 11:54 PM, Manoj Khangaonkar wrote:
>
>> Hi ,
>>
> Hi,
>
>> I am evaluating LDAP in general (Apache DS as possible LDAP) for use
>> as a user repository to be used for authentication /authorization for
>> a large scale web application.
>>
>> The choice is RDBMS vs LDAP vs NoSQL.
>>
> It's not really a choice. LDAP is the only pristine solution when it comes
> to manage authentication and authorization. Using a RDBMS or a NoSQL system
> implies you build a authn/authz solution on top of it (I'm not talking about
> LDAP over a RDBMS)
>
> I am well aware that LDAP is used by large enterprises. These
>> enterprises have typically thousands of users.
>>
> Hundred of thousands, and I have seen big telco companies using LDAP for
> more than 70 000 000 users...
>
>
> But have not seen it referenced in large scale web application
>> architectures - such as those at google , facebook, linkedin which
>> deal
>> with millions of users. ( They might be using ldap but I have not seen
>> anything on the web that says they do)
>>
>
> Probably because they don't necessarily want to expose such a sensitive
> part of their IT, but most certainly because they need a highly replicated
> system.
>
> Can LDAP in general and Apache DS in particular scale to millions of
>> users ?
>>
> Base line, yes. Dealing with millions of users is not really an issue. What
> is important here is not the number of users, but much more the operation
> per second you want to process on the LDAP server. On a laptop, OpenLDAP
> currently deal with up to 10 000 authentication *per second*, and with
> ApacheDS, last time I conducted a test (last year), it was around 4 500
> authentication per second.
>
>
> Are there any blogs/articles on web that talk of LDAP use in
>> architectures of very large scale.
>>
> Not that I know of. But the next LDAP conference (in Germany,
> http://www.daasi.de/ldapcon2011/) might see some talks about such a thing.
>
> Hope it helps.
>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel Lécharny
> www.iktek.com
>
>
Re: LDAP scalability
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
On 5/17/11 11:54 PM, Manoj Khangaonkar wrote:
> Hi ,
Hi,
> I am evaluating LDAP in general (Apache DS as possible LDAP) for use
> as a user repository to be used for authentication /authorization for
> a large scale web application.
>
> The choice is RDBMS vs LDAP vs NoSQL.
It's not really a choice. LDAP is the only pristine solution when it
comes to manage authentication and authorization. Using a RDBMS or a
NoSQL system implies you build a authn/authz solution on top of it (I'm
not talking about LDAP over a RDBMS)
> I am well aware that LDAP is used by large enterprises. These
> enterprises have typically thousands of users.
Hundred of thousands, and I have seen big telco companies using LDAP for
more than 70 000 000 users...
> But have not seen it referenced in large scale web application
> architectures - such as those at google , facebook, linkedin which
> deal
> with millions of users. ( They might be using ldap but I have not seen
> anything on the web that says they do)
Probably because they don't necessarily want to expose such a sensitive
part of their IT, but most certainly because they need a highly
replicated system.
> Can LDAP in general and Apache DS in particular scale to millions of
> users ?
Base line, yes. Dealing with millions of users is not really an issue.
What is important here is not the number of users, but much more the
operation per second you want to process on the LDAP server. On a
laptop, OpenLDAP currently deal with up to 10 000 authentication *per
second*, and with ApacheDS, last time I conducted a test (last year), it
was around 4 500 authentication per second.
> Are there any blogs/articles on web that talk of LDAP use in
> architectures of very large scale.
Not that I know of. But the next LDAP conference (in Germany,
http://www.daasi.de/ldapcon2011/) might see some talks about such a thing.
Hope it helps.
> thanks
>
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com