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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org> on 2009/07/05 16:11:10 UTC
Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Hi Lenya devs,
do you think it would be reasonable to move to Java 1.5 for the 2.0.x
branch, i.e. require Java 1.5 for the 2.0.3 release? It's a real PITA
that we can't use generics etc., and atm it looks like the 2.2 branch
won't be taking off for quite a while. BTW, most of the modules in the
contributions area are based on Java 1.5.
WDYT?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Rudolf Korhummel <ru...@korhummel.de>.
Hi Andreas,
> Hi Lenya devs,
>
> do you think it would be reasonable to move to Java 1.5 for the
> 2.0.x branch, i.e. require Java 1.5 for the 2.0.3 release? It's a
> real PITA that we can't use generics etc., and atm it looks like the
> 2.2 branch won't be taking off for quite a while. BTW, most of the
> modules in the contributions area are based on Java 1.5.
>
> WDYT?
+ 1
We use 1.5 and 1.6
Rudolf
>
> -- Andreas
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hi Lenya devs,
>
> do you think it would be reasonable to move to Java 1.5 for the 2.0.x
> branch, i.e. require Java 1.5 for the 2.0.3 release? It's a real PITA
> that we can't use generics etc., and atm it looks like the 2.2 branch
> won't be taking off for quite a while. BTW, most of the modules in the
> contributions area are based on Java 1.5.
>
> WDYT?
+1. 1.4 is no longer supported anyway. Might as well move to a supported
platform and get some benefits of doing so.
Richard
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
sacsha30@gmail schrieb:
> Hi
>
> We always use Java 1.5 for Lenya 2.x. So +1 from me as well.
>
> Regards
> Sac
>
> Rudolf Korhummel wrote:
>> Hi Michi,
>> Am 06.07.2009 um 20:05 schrieb Michael Wechner:
>>
>>> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
>>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some
>>>>> lead time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>>>>
>>>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>>>>
>>>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible
>>>>> and hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>>>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
>>>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
>>>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should
>>>> be relying on trunk except devs.
>>>
>>> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
>>> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should"
>>> makes sense, but it doesn't have
>>> to be reality at all.
>>>
>>
>> Are you using Lenya 2.x together with Java 1.4 ?
this is not about myself, but how this community should handle such
situations.
Cheers
Michael
>> or do you know somebody who is using Lenya 2.x with Java 1.4 ?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Rudolf
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by "sacsha30@gmail" <sa...@gmail.com>.
Hi
We always use Java 1.5 for Lenya 2.x. So +1 from me as well.
Regards
Sac
Rudolf Korhummel wrote:
> Hi Michi,
> Am 06.07.2009 um 20:05 schrieb Michael Wechner:
>
>> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some
>>>> lead time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>>>
>>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>>>
>>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible
>>>> and hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
>>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
>>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should
>>> be relying on trunk except devs.
>>
>> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
>> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
>> sense, but it doesn't have
>> to be reality at all.
>>
>
> Are you using Lenya 2.x together with Java 1.4 ?
> or do you know somebody who is using Lenya 2.x with Java 1.4 ?
>
> Best
>
> Rudolf
>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Michael
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Rudolf Korhummel <ru...@korhummel.de>.
Hi Michi,
Am 06.07.2009 um 20:05 schrieb Michael Wechner:
> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>
>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some
>>> lead time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>>
>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>>
>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible
>>> and hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should
>> be relying on trunk except devs.
>
> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should"
> makes sense, but it doesn't have
> to be reality at all.
>
Are you using Lenya 2.x together with Java 1.4 ?
or do you know somebody who is using Lenya 2.x with Java 1.4 ?
Best
Rudolf
>
> Cheers
>
> Michael
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Antonio Gallardo schrieb:
>> El 07/07/09 06:18, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
>>> How about the following procedure:
>>>
>>> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
>>> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
>>> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> What release number will get the 1st Java 1.5 lenya version? Is it
>> going to be 2.1?
>>
>> I am asking because switching to Java 5 is a "big" change. I think
>> in terms of annotations, etc.
>>
>> And, perhaps, if somebody wants to do a next release for security
>> fixes, etc in the java 1.4 they could release 2.0.4 which becomes
>> compatible with Java 1.4. Makes sense?
>
>
> Up to now there were no objections. Shall we announce this roadmap on
> the users list?
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
Sounds good to me.
Richard
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Antonio Gallardo schrieb:
> El 07/07/09 06:18, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
>> How about the following procedure:
>>
>> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
>> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
>> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>
> Hi folks,
>
> What release number will get the 1st Java 1.5 lenya version? Is it going
> to be 2.1?
>
> I am asking because switching to Java 5 is a "big" change. I think in
> terms of annotations, etc.
>
> And, perhaps, if somebody wants to do a next release for security fixes,
> etc in the java 1.4 they could release 2.0.4 which becomes compatible
> with Java 1.4. Makes sense?
Up to now there were no objections. Shall we announce this roadmap on
the users list?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Rudolf Korhummel <ru...@korhummel.de>.
Am 10.07.2009 um 16:43 schrieb Andreas Hartmann:
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Antonio Gallardo schrieb:
>> El 07/07/09 06:18, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
>>> How about the following procedure:
>>>
>>> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
>>> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
>>> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>> What release number will get the 1st Java 1.5 lenya version? Is it
>> going to be 2.1?
> >
>> I am asking because switching to Java 5 is a "big" change. I think
>> in terms of annotations, etc.
>> And, perhaps, if somebody wants to do a next release for security
>> fixes, etc in the java 1.4 they could release 2.0.4 which becomes
>> compatible with Java 1.4. Makes sense?
>
> +1, this sounds reasonable.
>
> -- Andreas
>
+1
Rudolf
>
> --
> Andreas Hartmann, CTO
> BeCompany GmbH
> http://www.becompany.ch
> Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Hi Antonio,
Antonio Gallardo schrieb:
> El 07/07/09 06:18, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
>> How about the following procedure:
>>
>> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
>> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
>> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>
> What release number will get the 1st Java 1.5 lenya version? Is it going
> to be 2.1?
>
> I am asking because switching to Java 5 is a "big" change. I think in
> terms of annotations, etc.
>
> And, perhaps, if somebody wants to do a next release for security fixes,
> etc in the java 1.4 they could release 2.0.4 which becomes compatible
> with Java 1.4. Makes sense?
+1, this sounds reasonable.
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agssa.net>.
El 07/07/09 06:18, Andreas Hartmann escribió:
> How about the following procedure:
>
> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
Hi folks,
What release number will get the 1st Java 1.5 lenya version? Is it going
to be 2.1?
I am asking because switching to Java 5 is a "big" change. I think in
terms of annotations, etc.
And, perhaps, if somebody wants to do a next release for security fixes,
etc in the java 1.4 they could release 2.0.4 which becomes compatible
with Java 1.4. Makes sense?
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo.
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <rf...@apache.org>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>
> IMO this is a good point.
>
> I reverted the changes, the 2.0.x branch should now be compatible with
> Java 1.4 again.
>
> How about the following procedure:
>
> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>
> WDYT?
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
Yeah, let's get 2.0.3 out the door. I doubt there are many locations
running Lenya on 1.4, but there might be. A lot of hands went up at the
conference I was at in March about still using 1.4 in their shops. 2.0.3
is so close anyway.
Richard
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Thorsten Scherler schrieb:
>
> Like said in the other mail WE (!!!) can update ourself since WE have
> root access to the zones server!
>
> ...and if you all keep on talking about beer invitation I will upgrade
> the server myself and collect all this beers bet around here. ;)
>
hurry and my beer will be yours ;-)
Cheers
Michael
> salu2
>
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Antwort: Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es> schrieb am
08.07.2009 11:55:28:
> On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:37 +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> > Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> > > Hi Rudolf,
> > >
> > > rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> > >> Hi Michi,
> > >>
> > >> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009
> > >> 22:05:38:
> > >
> > > […]
> > >
> > >> Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
> > >> installation using Java 1.4 .
> > >
> > > our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
> > > Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra
> > > to upgrade.
> >
> > @Rudolf: You might want to ask the infra team to upgrade and I will be
> > very happy to invite you to a beer if you make
> > them upgrade within the next 3 weeks.
@michi: Good Idea :))
>
> Like said in the other mail WE (!!!) can update ourself since WE have
> root access to the zones server!
>
> ...and if you all keep on talking about beer invitation I will upgrade
> the server myself and collect all this beers bet around here. ;)
>
@thorsten Great ! and thanks for the summary.
It's funny that's the zones server. (as Andreas pointet out)
And Michi's process will help to remember on the Java versioning problem
and maybe update earlier in the future.
Under this circumstances I agree to set up a process like Michi proposed
and to release 2.03 with Java 1.4
Have a good day
Rudolf
> salu2
> --
> Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
> Open Source Java <consulting, training and solutions>
>
> Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad
> de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI)
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:37 +0200, Michael Wechner wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> > Hi Rudolf,
> >
> > rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> >> Hi Michi,
> >>
> >> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009
> >> 22:05:38:
> >
> > […]
> >
> >> Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
> >> installation using Java 1.4 .
> >
> > our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
> > Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra
> > to upgrade.
>
> @Rudolf: You might want to ask the infra team to upgrade and I will be
> very happy to invite you to a beer if you make
> them upgrade within the next 3 weeks.
Like said in the other mail WE (!!!) can update ourself since WE have
root access to the zones server!
...and if you all keep on talking about beer invitation I will upgrade
the server myself and collect all this beers bet around here. ;)
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
Open Source Java <consulting, training and solutions>
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad
de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI)
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Hi Rudolf,
>
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>> Hi Michi,
>>
>> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009
>> 22:05:38:
>
> […]
>
>> Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
>> installation using Java 1.4 .
>
> our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
> Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra
> to upgrade.
@Rudolf: You might want to ask the infra team to upgrade and I will be
very happy to invite you to a beer if you make
them upgrade within the next 3 weeks.
Cheers
Michael
>
> I'm not sure if this counts as an installation though, so the beer
> might still be negotiable :)
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@juntadeandalucia.es>.
On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:25 +0200,
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de wrote:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> news <ne...@ger.gmane.org> schrieb am 08.07.2009 10:10:00:
>
> > Hi Rudolf,
> >
> > rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> > > Hi Michi,
> > >
> > > Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009
> 22:05:38:
> >
> > […]
> >
> > > Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
> > > installation using Java 1.4 .
> >
> > our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
> > Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra to
> > upgrade.
> >
> > I'm not sure if this counts as an installation though, so the beer might
> > still be negotiable :)
> >
>
> Very good point ! :)
> Would it be problem to upgrade ?
> I think the infrastructure team will get a beer for the Installation of 1.5
> and I'll offer beer at our next meeting.
> And Michi will probably get one.
Zones installation is in our hands, any committer can ask for access. So
a beer for the ones that is maintaining the zones server. ;)
All this beer offers made me thirsty. ;)
As I understand: Michis main point is the process of raising the java
version has to follow some rules (which then have been lay out). Rudolfs
point is that is doubly that there are production environments based on
1.4 in combination of 2.0.x. However as Andreas point out we actually
have this situation on our zones server. Meaning we can not update till
somebody updates our java on zones.
I think we should stick with 1.4 for the upcoming release and add a
headsup to point out that is the last version to officially support
1.4.
In any way there is always http://retrotranslator.sourceforge.net/ for
those who wants to keep 1.4. for their lenya installations.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler <thorsten.at.apache.org>
Open Source Java <consulting, training and solutions>
Sociedad Andaluza para el Desarrollo de la Sociedad
de la Información, S.A.U. (SADESI)
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Hi Andreas,
news <ne...@ger.gmane.org> schrieb am 08.07.2009 10:10:00:
> Hi Rudolf,
>
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> > Hi Michi,
> >
> > Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009
22:05:38:
>
> […]
>
> > Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
> > installation using Java 1.4 .
>
> our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
> Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra to
> upgrade.
>
> I'm not sure if this counts as an installation though, so the beer might
> still be negotiable :)
>
Very good point ! :)
Would it be problem to upgrade ?
I think the infrastructure team will get a beer for the Installation of 1.5
and I'll offer beer at our next meeting.
And Michi will probably get one.
I hope that we have now a better view of the Java version situation.
And this was the aim of the bear offer.
Rudolf
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
>
> --
> Andreas Hartmann, CTO
> BeCompany GmbH
> http://www.becompany.ch
> Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
>
>
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>
Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Hi Rudolf,
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> Hi Michi,
>
> Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009 22:05:38:
[…]
> Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
> installation using Java 1.4 .
our demo and docu pub on the zone server still runs on 1.4.
Unfortunately 1.5 isn't yet available on the zone. We could ask infra to
upgrade.
I'm not sure if this counts as an installation though, so the beer might
still be negotiable :)
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>
>> BTW:
>> I think the implemetation of processes should depend on facts. I.e. If
>> there were problems with Java versions in the past we should
>> implement it.
>> If not please show the benefits.
>>
>
> we still have customers which are using Java 1.4. Period.
> And I cannot force them to upgrade. Period.
>
> I am not saying this, because I think the Lenya community has to
> respect our customers or Wyona because of myself,
> I am saying this, because I think it's exactly this kind of
> "ignorance" which make a lot of people not use Lenya,
> because these people cannot rely on it (especially re backwards
> compatibility)
>
I do not think that ignorance is the problem of the Lenya project!
But I agree that backwards compatibility is important (moreover it seems
import to me that upgrading to a newer
version should be as painless as possible for customers).
Anyway we should not switch to 1.5 without announcing it! That is
certainly not customer friendly. The aproach Andreas
posted in a recent Mail i.e. to announce the switch for a next release
seems reliable for me
Jann
> Michael
>> Rudolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>> -- Andreas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--
Jann Forrer
Informatikdienste
Universität Zürich
Winterthurerstr. 190
CH-8057 Zürich
oooO mail: jann.forrer@id.uzh.ch
( ) phone: +41 1 63 56772
\ ( fax: +41 1 63 54505
\_) http://www.id.uzh.ch
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> migrating is not possible. On the other hand: Nobody ist forced to move to
> 2.0.3
>
if there might be a serious bug fix, then it is necessary
> And if we say 2.0.3 requires Java 1.5 is there realy a problem ?
>
yes, because one cannot upgrade, because one might has to stick to some
older Java version,
because within the same environment there is also running some webapp
which still require some
old Java version.
You know, software has a lot of dependencies ;-)
>
> I didn't felt any ignorance since I'm active in the Lenya Community.
> It's more the opposite. I love the way people argue and work there.
>
> I think a the real reasen why a lot of people don't use Lenya is because
> they can't see the benefits.
> But this is an other point.
>
> And my aim at this Java 1.5 discussion is just to find out what's real and
> not to be ignorant.
>
Another example: scalability/performance issues are not real today, but
these can be very real tomorrow.
And yes, I think it's about ignorance, that people tend to think other
people are like themselves.
I really don't want to offend you and I am myself ignorent sometimes,
but that's why I have learned
to try to see the other side and in particular the customer side in the
case of software.
Cheers
Michael
> Rudolf
>
>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>> Rudolf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -- Andreas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 08.07.2009 09:29:07:
> rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
> >
> > BTW:
> > I think the implemetation of processes should depend on facts. I.e. If
> > there were problems with Java versions in the past we should implement
it.
> > If not please show the benefits.
> >
>
> we still have customers which are using Java 1.4. Period.
> And I cannot force them to upgrade. Period.
>
Customers using Lenya 2.x together with Java 1.4 ? (Not Lenya 1.2.x here we
also use 1.4)
Then you'll get a beer from me.
I offer this beer because I wanted to find out if this is a real problem,
or only
in the mind of some people. In discussion with some friends of mine
offering beer
was a funny and good way to find out whats realy going on, so I tried it on
the mailing list.
Why didn't you say before that there are real installations with that
problem ?
I think it's not a shame to use Java 1.4. There may be software
dependencies to other products, so
migrating is not possible. On the other hand: Nobody ist forced to move to
2.0.3
And if we say 2.0.3 requires Java 1.5 is there realy a problem ?
>
>
> I am not saying this, because I think the Lenya community has to respect
> our customers or Wyona because of myself,
> I am saying this, because I think it's exactly this kind of "ignorance"
> which make a lot of people not use Lenya,
> because these people cannot rely on it (especially re backwards
> compatibility)
>
> Just consider this as a friendly advice, because this community has to
> define/decide what their goal is and I am not
> going to argue with it. I am just saying if one of the goals is that
> more people are using Lenya or contributing to Lenya,
> then it needs to be reliable.
>
I didn't felt any ignorance since I'm active in the Lenya Community.
It's more the opposite. I love the way people argue and work there.
I think a the real reasen why a lot of people don't use Lenya is because
they can't see the benefits.
But this is an other point.
And my aim at this Java 1.5 discussion is just to find out what's real and
not to be ignorant.
Rudolf
>
> Cheers
>
> Michael
> > Rudolf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>> -- Andreas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>
> BTW:
> I think the implemetation of processes should depend on facts. I.e. If
> there were problems with Java versions in the past we should implement it.
> If not please show the benefits.
>
we still have customers which are using Java 1.4. Period.
And I cannot force them to upgrade. Period.
I am not saying this, because I think the Lenya community has to respect
our customers or Wyona because of myself,
I am saying this, because I think it's exactly this kind of "ignorance"
which make a lot of people not use Lenya,
because these people cannot rely on it (especially re backwards
compatibility)
Just consider this as a friendly advice, because this community has to
define/decide what their goal is and I am not
going to argue with it. I am just saying if one of the goals is that
more people are using Lenya or contributing to Lenya,
then it needs to be reliable.
Cheers
Michael
> Rudolf
>
>
>
>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>> -- Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@lenya.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@lenya.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Hi Michi,
Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com> schrieb am 07.07.2009 22:05:38:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> > Michael Wechner schrieb:
> >> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
> >>> Michael Wechner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some
> >>>> lead time, for example 1 month, by saying
> >>>>
> >>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
> >>>>
> >>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible
> >>>> and hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
> >>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
> >>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
> >>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should
> >>> be relying on trunk except devs.
> >>
> >> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
> >> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
> >> sense, but it doesn't have to be reality at all.
> >
> > IMO this is a good point.
> >
> > I reverted the changes, the 2.0.x branch should now be compatible with
> > Java 1.4 again.
> >
> > How about the following procedure:
> >
> > * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
> > * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
> > * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
> >
> > WDYT?
>
> sounds good.
>
> I think the important thing is to stick to such a process and do it the
> same for switching from 1.5 to 1.6 and .... (AFAIK 1.5 is EOL this
> autumn ;-)
>
maybe for the future, for the current Java 1.4 situation its not necessary
from MPOV.
Java 1.4 isn't suported anymore from Sun ( http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/)
and as you tell 1.5 is EOL soon http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5/index.jsp
Even if there are realy persons who are using Lenya 2.x with Java 1.4 and
we would force them to move to Java 1.5 with Lenya 2.0.3 it would be good
thing, because it makes sence to move to a supported Java version ASAP. So
I would still prefer to switch to Java 1.5 now.
Remember you'll get a beer from me if you can show me a Lenya 2.x
installation using Java 1.4 .
(We are using Java 1.6 with Lenya 2 in our intranet.)
BTW:
I think the implemetation of processes should depend on facts. I.e. If
there were problems with Java versions in the past we should implement it.
If not please show the benefits.
Rudolf
> Cheers
>
> Michael
> >
> > -- Andreas
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
>>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some
>>>> lead time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>>>
>>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>>>
>>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible
>>>> and hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
>>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
>>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should
>>> be relying on trunk except devs.
>>
>> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
>> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
>> sense, but it doesn't have to be reality at all.
>
> IMO this is a good point.
>
> I reverted the changes, the 2.0.x branch should now be compatible with
> Java 1.4 again.
>
> How about the following procedure:
>
> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>
> WDYT?
sounds good.
I think the important thing is to stick to such a process and do it the
same for switching from 1.5 to 1.6 and .... (AFAIK 1.5 is EOL this
autumn ;-)
Cheers
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Hi all,
news <ne...@ger.gmane.org> schrieb am 07.07.2009 14:18:15:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
> > Richard Frovarp schrieb:
> >> Michael Wechner wrote:
> >>>
> >>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
> >>> time, for example 1 month, by saying
> >>>
> >>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
> >>>
> >>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
> >>> hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
> >>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
> >> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
> >> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should be
> >> relying on trunk except devs.
> >
> > who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
> > often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
> > sense, but it doesn't have to be reality at all.
>
> IMO this is a good point.
>
> I reverted the changes, the 2.0.x branch should now be compatible with
> Java 1.4 again.
>
> How about the following procedure:
>
> * Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
> * Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
> * Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
>
> WDYT?
I don't think it's necessary to wait because I assume that there are no
productive Lenya 2.x installations around running on Java 1.4.
But maybe I'm wrong.
So the first person who can show me a productive Lenya 2.x installation
runing on Java 1.4
will get a free beer from me.
Rudolf
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
> --
> Andreas Hartmann, CTO
> BeCompany GmbH
> http://www.becompany.ch
> Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
>
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Richard Frovarp schrieb:
>> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>>
>>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
>>> time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>>
>>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>>
>>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
>>> hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
>> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
>> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should be
>> relying on trunk except devs.
>
> who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
> often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
> sense, but it doesn't have to be reality at all.
IMO this is a good point.
I reverted the changes, the 2.0.x branch should now be compatible with
Java 1.4 again.
How about the following procedure:
* Announce that after 2.0.3 we'll move to Java 1.5
* Release 2.0.3 (I guess this will at least take 3 weeks)
* Start coding for Java 1.5 after the release
WDYT?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Richard Frovarp schrieb:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
>>
>> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
>> time, for example 1 month, by saying
>>
>> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>>
>> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
>> hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
>> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those
> relying on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should be
> relying on trunk except devs.
who says that? Because of various bug fixes and no releases one is
often forced to use a particular trunk revision. Maybe "should" makes
sense, but it doesn't have
to be reality at all.
Cheers
Michael
>
> Richard
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
Richard Frovarp <Ri...@ndsu.edu> schrieb am 06.07.2009 16:35:37:
> Michael Wechner wrote:
> >
> > +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
> > time, for example 1 month, by saying
> >
> > [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
> >
> > which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
> > hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
> > to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
> Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those relying
> on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should be relying
> on trunk except devs.
>
I agree. So we don't have to wait and we can release Lenya 2.0.3 requiring
Java 1.5
Rudolf
> Richard
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <Ri...@ndsu.edu>.
Michael Wechner wrote:
>
> +1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
> time, for example 1 month, by saying
>
> [ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
>
> which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
> hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
> to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
Not a bad idea. However, we would only be switching trunk. Those relying
on 1.4 shouldn't running trunk in production. No one should be relying
on trunk except devs.
Richard
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Hi Lenya devs,
>
> do you think it would be reasonable to move to Java 1.5 for the 2.0.x
> branch, i.e. require Java 1.5 for the 2.0.3 release? It's a real PITA
> that we can't use generics etc., and atm it looks like the 2.2 branch
> won't be taking off for quite a while. BTW, most of the modules in the
> contributions area are based on Java 1.5.
>
> WDYT?
+1, but I think even if everyone says +1 you should give it some lead
time, for example 1 month, by saying
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Switching to Java 1.5 by August 1st
which means until then all code still needs to be 1.4 compatible and
hence gives those people who use 1.4 enough time
to switch to 1.5 on their platform.
Cheers
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
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Re: Java 1.5 for 2.0.x branch?
Posted by Vik Tara <vi...@propco.co.uk>.
We always use 1.5 so:
+1
On 05/07/09 15:11, Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hi Lenya devs,
>
> do you think it would be reasonable to move to Java 1.5 for the 2.0.x
> branch, i.e. require Java 1.5 for the 2.0.3 release? It's a real PITA
> that we can't use generics etc., and atm it looks like the 2.2 branch
> won't be taking off for quite a while. BTW, most of the modules in the
> contributions area are based on Java 1.5.
>
> WDYT?
>
> -- Andreas
>
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