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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> on 2010/01/08 01:43:51 UTC
Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Hi,
I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:
1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.
BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
(for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.
Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
Lester
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com>.
struts is as c what wicket is as java (still beyond c++)
SV: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Wilhelmsen Tor Iver <To...@arrive.no>.
> you've got to admit it's a short distance between bloody fist fights in
> a
> basement for no purpose whatsoever and using struts.
Hm, it seems the slogan "Struts 2: Not As Bad As Struts 1" did not catch on.
- Tor Iver
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
you've got to admit it's a short distance between bloody fist fights in a
basement for no purpose whatsoever and using struts.
Peter Ertl-3 wrote:
>
> Struts Club?!
>
> That's disgusting :-(
>
> Am 11.01.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Jonathan Locke:
>
>>
>>
>> that's because it's the number one rule! nobody talks about Struts Club.
>>
>>
>> igor.vaynberg wrote:
>>>
>>> here is an interesting tidbit
>>>
>>> wicket is on the front page of nabble
>>>
>>> http://old.nabble.com/
>>>
>>> sorted by activity. we are there along maven, jquery, cxf, tomcat,
>>> etc. how is the adoption on those?
>>>
>>> -igor
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Thanks for the links.
>>>> I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
>>>>
>>>> I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Lester
>>>>
>>>> Steve Swinsburg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>>>>>
>>>>> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best!
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>>>>>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>>>>>> I have:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>>>>>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> was the result.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>>>>>> because of..... of all things.....
>>>>>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>>>>>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>>>>>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>>>>>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
>>>>>> considering
>>>>>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9
>>>>>> months
>>>>>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>> (took
>>>>>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent
>>>>>> wrestling
>>>>>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka
>>>>>> Struts)
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the
>>>>>> team
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough
>>>>>> ahead
>>>>>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and
>>>>>> explain
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find
>>>>>> wicket
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>>>>>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
>>>>>> low
>>>>>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lester
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27118513.html
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Peter Ertl <pe...@gmx.org>.
Struts Club?!
That's disgusting :-(
Am 11.01.2010 um 22:57 schrieb Jonathan Locke:
>
>
> that's because it's the number one rule! nobody talks about Struts Club.
>
>
> igor.vaynberg wrote:
>>
>> here is an interesting tidbit
>>
>> wicket is on the front page of nabble
>>
>> http://old.nabble.com/
>>
>> sorted by activity. we are there along maven, jquery, cxf, tomcat,
>> etc. how is the adoption on those?
>>
>> -igor
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the links.
>>> I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
>>>
>>> I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Lester
>>>
>>> Steve Swinsburg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>>>>
>>>> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>>>>
>>>> All the best!
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>>>>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>>>>> I have:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>>>>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>>>>
>>>>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>>>>> was the result.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>>>>> because of..... of all things.....
>>>>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>>>>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>>>>
>>>>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>>>>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>>>>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
>>>>> considering
>>>>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9
>>>>> months
>>>>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems
>>>>> (took
>>>>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent
>>>>> wrestling
>>>>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project
>>>>> can
>>>>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts)
>>>>> and
>>>>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team
>>>>> work
>>>>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough
>>>>> ahead
>>>>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
>>>>> to
>>>>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>>>>
>>>>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
>>>>> by
>>>>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>>>>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
>>>>> not
>>>>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
>>>>> low
>>>>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lester
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27118513.html
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
that's because it's the number one rule! nobody talks about Struts Club.
igor.vaynberg wrote:
>
> here is an interesting tidbit
>
> wicket is on the front page of nabble
>
> http://old.nabble.com/
>
> sorted by activity. we are there along maven, jquery, cxf, tomcat,
> etc. how is the adoption on those?
>
> -igor
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for the links.
>> I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
>>
>> I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Lester
>>
>> Steve Swinsburg wrote:
>>>
>>> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>>>
>>> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>>>
>>> All the best!
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>>>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>>>> I have:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>>>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>>>
>>>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>>>> was the result.
>>>>
>>>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>>>> because of..... of all things.....
>>>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>>>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>>>
>>>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>>>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>>>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
>>>> considering
>>>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9
>>>> months
>>>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems
>>>> (took
>>>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent
>>>> wrestling
>>>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project
>>>> can
>>>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts)
>>>> and
>>>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team
>>>> work
>>>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>>>
>>>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough
>>>> ahead
>>>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
>>>> to
>>>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>>>
>>>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
>>>> by
>>>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>>>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
>>>> not
>>>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
>>>> low
>>>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>>>
>>>> Lester
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27118513.html
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
here is an interesting tidbit
wicket is on the front page of nabble
http://old.nabble.com/
sorted by activity. we are there along maven, jquery, cxf, tomcat,
etc. how is the adoption on those?
-igor
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the links.
> I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
>
> I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lester
>
> Steve Swinsburg wrote:
>>
>> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>>
>> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>>
>> All the best!
>>
>> cheers,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>>> I have:
>>>
>>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>>
>>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>>> was the result.
>>>
>>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>>> because of..... of all things.....
>>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>>
>>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering
>>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months
>>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
>>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
>>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
>>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
>>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
>>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>>
>>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to
>>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>>
>>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
>>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
>>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>>
>>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
>>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>>
>>> Lester
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for the links.
I have already submitted them as part of the evaluation process.
I'll take a look at the IBM links from scott.
Regards,
Lester
Steve Swinsburg wrote:
> On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
>
> as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
>
> All the best!
>
> cheers,
> Steve
>
>
>
> On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Steve Swinsburg <st...@gmail.com>.
On the wiki there are some pages to help your cause:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/products-based-on-wicket.html
as well as blogs talking about Wicket, and lots more useful PR info:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
All the best!
cheers,
Steve
On 08/01/2010, at 11:43 AM, Lester Chua wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Joseph Pachod <jp...@thomas-daily.de>.
Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
> Do you mean this post?
>
> http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/HowToStartLearningJavaEE6
>
> Ernesto
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Pachod <jp...@thomas-daily.de> wrote:
>
For example yes
Gavin said so as well on others occasions (I kind of remember having
read it on some infoq's comment)
++
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <re...@gmail.com>.
Do you mean this post?
http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/HowToStartLearningJavaEE6
Ernesto
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Joseph Pachod <jp...@thomas-daily.de> wrote:
> Lester Chua wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket
>> for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was
>> the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>> because of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will
>> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering
>> not taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months
>> to introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to
>> my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>> Hi Lester
>
> Did you point out that someone like Gavin King recommends wicket (and hence
> the Seam support for it) ?
>
> It may help to convince about wicket's credibility.
>
> hope it helps
> ++
>
> --
> Joseph Pachod
> IT
>
> THOMAS DAILY GmbH
> Adlerstraße 19
> 79098 Freiburg
> Deutschland
> T + 49 761 3 85 59 310
> F + 49 761 3 85 59 550
> E joseph.pachod@thomas-daily.de
> www.thomas-daily.de
>
> Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors:
> Wendy Thomas, Susanne Larbig
> Handelsregister Freiburg i.Br., HRB 3947
>
> Registrieren Sie sich unter www.signin.thomas-daily.de für die
> kostenfreien TD Morning News, eine Auswahl aktueller Themen des Tages
> morgens um 9:00 in Ihrer Mailbox.
>
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> 8:30 Uhr. Es werden vorrangig Informationen berücksichtigt, die nach 16:00
> Uhr des Vortages eingegangen sind. Die Email-Adresse unserer Redaktion
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Joseph Pachod <jp...@thomas-daily.de>.
Lester Chua wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot
> of those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1.
> The only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the
> beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough
> ahead and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and
> explain to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
Hi Lester
Did you point out that someone like Gavin King recommends wicket (and
hence the Seam support for it) ?
It may help to convince about wicket's credibility.
hope it helps
++
--
Joseph Pachod
IT
THOMAS DAILY GmbH
Adlerstraße 19
79098 Freiburg
Deutschland
T + 49 761 3 85 59 310
F + 49 761 3 85 59 550
E joseph.pachod@thomas-daily.de
www.thomas-daily.de
Geschäftsführer/Managing Directors:
Wendy Thomas, Susanne Larbig
Handelsregister Freiburg i.Br., HRB 3947
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Jeffrey Schneller <je...@envisa.com>.
Lester,
While I can't show actual numbers that speak to adoption rate, we
struggled with the same question. In the end we decided that it made
sense and in the past 5 months have developed and deployed a web
application for one of our clients and are 1.5 months into development
for another client. Unfortunately the deployed application is not
available to the public. It is a medical device sales/manufacturing tool
for sales reps and named customers.
The application that is under development is a e-commerce site with a
custom product configuration tool that will be ready for deployment in
the late March timeframe. The application will be heavily based on AJAX
and use JQuery. The reason we wanted to use Wicket was because of the
great AJAX support. We built a similar application for another client a
few years ago using servlets/jsp, json, rest. The speed of development
with Wicket is unbelievable. What took many weeks with the old
architecture, we were able to accomplish in less than half that time.
Also the code is much cleaner.
Feel free to ping me if you need any more information.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Lester Chua [mailto:cicowicket@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:44 PM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Hi,
I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:
1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.
BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
(for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.
Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so
lame)?
Lester
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Peter Thomas <pt...@gmail.com>.
Just a thought, in my experience a lot of project teams end up choosing
Struts2 thinking that it is a simple upgrade from Struts 1 and that existing
"in-house expertise" in Struts 1 can be preserved. This line of thinking
obviously appeals to "management".
Just in case, make it clear that Struts 2 is a completely different
framework + learning curve.
- Peter
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>wrote:
> ask them for their sources for adoption rates of struts 2, im curious.
>
> -igor
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You guys are AWESOME.
> > I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech
> committee.
> > Hope all this is persuasive enough.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Lester
> >
> >
> > Peter Thomas wrote:
> >>
> >> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
> >> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and
> counting:
> >>
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Lester,
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company
> called
> >>> Spherion Corporation.
> >>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket.
> These
> >>> projects have been
> >>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
> >>> company millions of
> >>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-)
> Anyway,
> >>> I
> >>> am not really
> >>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket
> framework
> >>> is
> >>> being used
> >>> by some serious players.
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
> >>> --
> >>> View this message in context:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
> >>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
ask them for their sources for adoption rates of struts 2, im curious.
-igor
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You guys are AWESOME.
> I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech committee.
> Hope all this is persuasive enough.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lester
>
>
> Peter Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
>> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Lester,
>>>
>>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
>>> Spherion Corporation.
>>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
>>> projects have been
>>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
>>> company millions of
>>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway,
>>> I
>>> am not really
>>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
>>> is
>>> being used
>>> by some serious players.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>>
>>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
>>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>.
You guys are AWESOME.
I'm composing an email to the evaluator-in-charge from the tech
committee. Hope all this is persuasive enough.
Regards,
Lester
Peter Thomas wrote:
> Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
> companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Lester,
>>
>> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
>> Spherion Corporation.
>> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
>> projects have been
>> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
>> company millions of
>> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I
>> am not really
>> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
>> is
>> being used
>> by some serious players.
>>
>> Steve
>> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Peter Thomas <pt...@gmail.com>.
Also the "Apache Wicket" LinkedIn group could be used to get a feel of
companies using Wicket, at the moment there are 524 members and counting:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?viewMembers=&gid=80181
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:30 AM, shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Lester,
>
> I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
> Spherion Corporation.
> Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
> projects have been
> delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
> company millions of
> dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I
> am not really
> here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework
> is
> being used
> by some serious players.
>
> Steve
> (Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net>.
Hi Lester,
I don't know if this helps but I work for a large staffing company called
Spherion Corporation.
Our most recent large applications have been created using Wicket. These
projects have been
delivered on-time, require low maintenance and have literally saved the
company millions of
dollars. We're a popular group in the IT department right now :-) Anyway, I
am not really
here to toot my horn but rather to let you know that the Wicket framework is
being used
by some serious players.
Steve
(Man, am I glad I came across the Wicket review at the ServerSide.)
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27070748.html
Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by bh...@actrix.gen.nz.
Hi Lester,
If you think your boss will not accept the benefits, then why not show
him the risk of sticking with a technology (Struts) that is in
decline? Then suddenly he shoulders the burden of making the desision
of taking ownership of a sinking ship.
Regards
Bernard
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:43:51 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>Wicket for use in an organization.
>I have:
>
>1) Prototyped a small size module
>2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
>No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>was the result.
>
>BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>because of..... of all things.....
>- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
>My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
>considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
>involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
>lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
>those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
>only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
>entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
>dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
>that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
>Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
>to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
>It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
>by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
>not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
>Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
>low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
>Lester
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
yup. ibm is into it.
i also think it's telling that wicket is a global phenomenon at this
point... there are books on wicket in english (3), german (2), japanese (1)
and chinese (1). and these are independent books, not localizations of one
book.
jon
p.s. if your group needs advice, i occasionally do architectural consulting
and there are also a number of trainers out there now.
Scott Swank wrote:
>
> The wiki has a list of some web sites that use Wicket.
> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
>
> A quick search of IBM shows approx 1,080 articles on Wicket:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=site:ibm.com+wicket
>
> Scott
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>> Wicket
>> for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>> was
>> the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>> because
>> of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>> will
>> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering
>> not
>> taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months
>> to
>> introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
>> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent
>> wrestling
>> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
>> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts)
>> and
>> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team
>> work
>> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>> and
>> probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my
>> wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
>> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
>> not
>> as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
>> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Scott Swank <sc...@gmail.com>.
The wiki has a list of some web sites that use Wicket.
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/websites-based-on-wicket.html
A quick search of IBM shows approx 1,080 articles on Wicket:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:ibm.com+wicket
Scott
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push Wicket
> for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that was
> the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket because
> of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which will
> mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even considering not
> taking part in this project due to the high risk involved, only 9 months to
> introduce huge changes to a system that has lots of legacy problems (took
> about 3 years to build). I think a lot of those years were spent wrestling
> with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The only way I thought the project can
> even be on time is to scrap the entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and
> redo it in Wicket with 1 dedicated developer while the rest of the team work
> on killing the beast that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead and
> probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain to my
> wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket by
> rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if not
> as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly low
> adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by "Corbin, James" <jc...@IQNavigator.com>.
Have you considered Google Web Toolkit (GWT)?
J.D.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lester Chua [mailto:cicowicket@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:44 PM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Hi,
I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:
1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.
BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
(for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.
Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so
lame)?
Lester
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Martin Makundi <ma...@koodaripalvelut.com>.
Someone should craft a very nice dilbert mashup for wicket ;)
**
Martin
2010/1/8 Loritsch, Berin C. <Be...@gd-ais.com>:
> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> numbers?"
>
> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>
> Hi,
>
> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> an
> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> is
> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>
> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>
> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> that
> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>
> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> Immigration Office).
>
>
> Sincerely yours
> Leo Erlandsson
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>.
you mean you speak it pretty *well* :)
-igor
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Eyal Golan <eg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As my English is not my mother's tongue, even though I do speak it pretty
> good, what is the meaning of "pointy haired bosses"?
> I think I can understand it, but hey, I want to know if these are the kinds
> of bosses I encountered too often..
>
> Eyal Golan
> egolan74@gmail.com
>
> Visit: http://jvdrums.sourceforge.net/
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/egolan74
>
> P Save a tree. Please don't print this e-mail unless it's really necessary
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
>> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
>> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care about
>> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
>> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
>> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
>> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>>
>>
>> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>> >
>> > "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>> > numbers?"
>> >
>> > The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>> > that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>> > can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>> > with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>> > trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>> > Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
>> > from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>> > To: users@wicket.apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>> > an
>> > inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
>> > is
>> > becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>> >
>> > Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>> > http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>> >
>> > We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>> > both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>> > that
>> > the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>> >
>> > I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>> > using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>> > Immigration Office).
>> >
>> >
>> > Sincerely yours
>> > Leo Erlandsson
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27082559.html
>> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Le...@tyringe.com.
>As my English is not my mother's tongue, even though I do speak it pretty
>good, what is the meaning of "pointy haired bosses"?
>I think I can understand it, but hey, I want to know if these are the
kinds
>of bosses I encountered too often..
It's from the Dilbert Comic Strip :)
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-Haired_Boss
"The Pointy-Haired Boss (often abbreviated to just PHB) is Dilbert's boss
in the Dilbert comic strip. He is notable for his micromanagement, gross
incompetence and unawareness of his surroundings, yet somehow retains
power in the workplace."
RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net>.
http://old.nabble.com/file/p27130000/phb.jpg
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by "Loritsch, Berin C." <Be...@gd-ais.com>.
It's a reference to the American cartoon "Dilbert" (www.dilbert.com)
that is syndicated in papers. It has a nice sarcastic look at office
life.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eyal Golan [mailto:egolan74@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:58 AM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
As my English is not my mother's tongue, even though I do speak it
pretty
good, what is the meaning of "pointy haired bosses"?
I think I can understand it, but hey, I want to know if these are the
kinds
of bosses I encountered too often..
Eyal Golan
egolan74@gmail.com
Visit: http://jvdrums.sourceforge.net/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/egolan74
P Save a tree. Please don't print this e-mail unless it's really
necessary
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Jonathan Locke
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses
are
> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain
and
> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
about
> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is
why
> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same
seems to
> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired
for
> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>
>
> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
> >
> > "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> > numbers?"
> >
> > The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of
hearts
> > that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that
they
> > can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> > with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do
with
> > trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> > Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired
boss
> > from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> > To: users@wicket.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why
choose
> > an
> > inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
Wicket
> > is
> > becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> >
> > Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs
Wicket):
> >
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> >
> > We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is
great
> > both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> > that
> > the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
Wicket.
> >
> > I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden
are
> > using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> > Immigration Office).
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours
> > Leo Erlandsson
> >
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27082
559.html
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Bert <ta...@gmail.com>.
It a figure from the famous dilbert comics.
here is an image of him:
http://files.myopera.com/ThePast/albums/170779/pointy%20haired%20boss.jpg
Enjoy
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 08:58, Eyal Golan <eg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As my English is not my mother's tongue, even though I do speak it pretty
> good, what is the meaning of "pointy haired bosses"?
> I think I can understand it, but hey, I want to know if these are the kinds
> of bosses I encountered too often..
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Eyal Golan <eg...@gmail.com>.
As my English is not my mother's tongue, even though I do speak it pretty
good, what is the meaning of "pointy haired bosses"?
I think I can understand it, but hey, I want to know if these are the kinds
of bosses I encountered too often..
Eyal Golan
egolan74@gmail.com
Visit: http://jvdrums.sourceforge.net/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/egolan74
P Save a tree. Please don't print this e-mail unless it's really necessary
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care about
> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>
>
> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
> >
> > "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> > numbers?"
> >
> > The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> > that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> > can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> > with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> > trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> > Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
> > from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> > To: users@wicket.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> > an
> > inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> > is
> > becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> >
> > Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> > http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> >
> > We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> > both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> > that
> > the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
> >
> > I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> > using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> > Immigration Office).
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours
> > Leo Erlandsson
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27082559.html
> Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>.
With such nice groundwork laid out, it should be *easier* to sell it.
Congrats in advance =).
Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
> Hi Lester,
>
> What I have done is implement the same "mini" application in several
> technologies:
>
> -Struts + Spring + Hibernate
> -Seam + JSF + Hibernate
> -Wicket + Spring/Guice + Hibernate
>
> With detailed explanations of how things work...
>
> Additionally I have created a more complex prototype of another
> application, done in Wicket +Spring/Guice, which shows advanced
> functionality like:
>
> -Auto-CRUDs panels, generated out of annotated POJOs, with grids supporting
> column reordering via drag-drop, export to Excel, PDF, etc.
> -Workspace like functionality: a page where users can work with different
> floating panels as in a desktop. One of these windows contains an AJAX
> driven wizard and the others are search screens the user can use to check
> information while using the wizard...
> -Trees, Palettes, Grids, etc.
>
> In a couple of weeks we have some training sessions... and after that a
> decision will be taken...
>
> Regards,
>
> Ernesto
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Ernesto,
>>
>> Cant offer much advise here myself. The others have already great tips as
>> well as morale support.
>> If you are up to it, you should do a fair-sized prototype (with
>> multi-forms/multi girds+ajax in typical pages) and just kick their arses.
>> In my situation, we did a mini project with it and were just blow away with
>> the results.
>> I find it frustrating when technical evaluators do not sit down and get
>> their hands dirty while making decisions that will affect whole companies'
>> competitiveness and productivity.
>> When making recommendations, we should do a detailed hands on the
>> technology and should not just cut and paste whatever we find off the web
>> and present it as having done our research. Doing tutorials only are also
>> dangerous as they typically cover only a small subset of use cases and
>> normally do not illustrate the complex UI's that can arises from users
>> requests.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>> Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi Lester,
>>>
>>> Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that wants
>>> to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
>>> "present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
>>> decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
>>> development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other
>>> candidates
>>> but that won't be easy...
>>>
>>> I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
>>> personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves
>>> "on
>>> the safe side of the fence".
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Ernesto
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jonathan,
>>>>
>>>> Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
>>>>
>>>> Igor,
>>>>
>>>> I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
>>>> better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a approved
>>>> technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done 2
>>>> years ago.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
>>>> helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend.
>>>> And I
>>>> have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
>>>> committee and will keep you guys posted.
>>>>
>>>> Lester
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan Locke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses
>>>>> are
>>>>> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
>>>>> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
>>>>> about
>>>>> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is
>>>>> why
>>>>> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems
>>>>> to
>>>>> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired
>>>>> for
>>>>> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>>>>>> numbers?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>>>>>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>>>>>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>>>>>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>>>>>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>>>>>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired
>>>>>> boss
>>>>>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>>>>>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>>>>>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
>>>>>> Wicket
>>>>>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>>>>>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>>>>>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>>>>>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
>>>>>> Wicket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>>>>>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>>>>>> Immigration Office).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely yours
>>>>>> Leo Erlandsson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <re...@gmail.com>.
Hi Lester,
What I have done is implement the same "mini" application in several
technologies:
-Struts + Spring + Hibernate
-Seam + JSF + Hibernate
-Wicket + Spring/Guice + Hibernate
With detailed explanations of how things work...
Additionally I have created a more complex prototype of another
application, done in Wicket +Spring/Guice, which shows advanced
functionality like:
-Auto-CRUDs panels, generated out of annotated POJOs, with grids supporting
column reordering via drag-drop, export to Excel, PDF, etc.
-Workspace like functionality: a page where users can work with different
floating panels as in a desktop. One of these windows contains an AJAX
driven wizard and the others are search screens the user can use to check
information while using the wizard...
-Trees, Palettes, Grids, etc.
In a couple of weeks we have some training sessions... and after that a
decision will be taken...
Regards,
Ernesto
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:28 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Ernesto,
>
> Cant offer much advise here myself. The others have already great tips as
> well as morale support.
> If you are up to it, you should do a fair-sized prototype (with
> multi-forms/multi girds+ajax in typical pages) and just kick their arses.
> In my situation, we did a mini project with it and were just blow away with
> the results.
> I find it frustrating when technical evaluators do not sit down and get
> their hands dirty while making decisions that will affect whole companies'
> competitiveness and productivity.
> When making recommendations, we should do a detailed hands on the
> technology and should not just cut and paste whatever we find off the web
> and present it as having done our research. Doing tutorials only are also
> dangerous as they typically cover only a small subset of use cases and
> normally do not illustrate the complex UI's that can arises from users
> requests.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lester
>
>
> Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
>
>> Hi Lester,
>>
>> Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that wants
>> to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
>> "present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
>> decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
>> development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other
>> candidates
>> but that won't be easy...
>>
>> I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
>> personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves
>> "on
>> the safe side of the fence".
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ernesto
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Jonathan,
>>>
>>> Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
>>>
>>> Igor,
>>>
>>> I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
>>> better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a approved
>>> technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done 2
>>> years ago.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
>>> helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend.
>>> And I
>>> have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
>>> committee and will keep you guys posted.
>>>
>>> Lester
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Locke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses
>>>> are
>>>> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
>>>> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
>>>> about
>>>> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is
>>>> why
>>>> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems
>>>> to
>>>> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired
>>>> for
>>>> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>>>>> numbers?"
>>>>>
>>>>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>>>>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>>>>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>>>>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>>>>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>>>>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired
>>>>> boss
>>>>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>>>>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>>>>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
>>>>> Wicket
>>>>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>>>>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>>>>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>>>>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
>>>>> Wicket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>>>>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>>>>> Immigration Office).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely yours
>>>>> Leo Erlandsson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ernesto,
Cant offer much advise here myself. The others have already great tips
as well as morale support.
If you are up to it, you should do a fair-sized prototype (with
multi-forms/multi girds+ajax in typical pages) and just kick their arses.
In my situation, we did a mini project with it and were just blow away
with the results.
I find it frustrating when technical evaluators do not sit down and get
their hands dirty while making decisions that will affect whole
companies' competitiveness and productivity.
When making recommendations, we should do a detailed hands on the
technology and should not just cut and paste whatever we find off the
web and present it as having done our research. Doing tutorials only are
also dangerous as they typically cover only a small subset of use cases
and normally do not illustrate the complex UI's that can arises from
users requests.
Regards,
Lester
Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro wrote:
> Hi Lester,
>
> Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that wants
> to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
> "present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
> decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
> development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other candidates
> but that won't be easy...
>
> I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
> personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves "on
> the safe side of the fence".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ernesto
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
>>
>> Igor,
>>
>> I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
>> better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a approved
>> technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done 2
>> years ago.
>>
>> Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
>> helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend. And I
>> have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
>> committee and will keep you guys posted.
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Locke wrote:
>>
>>
>>> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
>>> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
>>> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
>>> about
>>> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
>>> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
>>> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
>>> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>>>
>>>
>>> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>>>> numbers?"
>>>>
>>>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>>>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>>>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>>>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>>>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>>>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
>>>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>>>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>>>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
>>>> Wicket
>>>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>>>
>>>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>>>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>>>
>>>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>>>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>>>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
>>>> Wicket.
>>>>
>>>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>>>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>>>> Immigration Office).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely yours
>>>> Leo Erlandsson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by manuelbarzi <ma...@gmail.com>.
may you take into account the new "wicket-like" framework, Apache Click,
too, just passing the incubator now... as another alternative to compare
with, but also to show the tendency - and then the present and future - of
web presentation frameworks... ;)
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Per Lundholm <pe...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Since the PHB like to stay on the safe side of the fence, make them feel
> safe with Wicket.
>
> Tell successtories about Wicket. Tell failstories about other systems. :-)
>
> /Per
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <
> reiern70@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Lester,
> >
> > Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that
> wants
> > to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
> > "present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
> > decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
> > development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other
> > candidates
> > but that won't be easy...
> >
> > I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
> > personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves
> "on
> > the safe side of the fence".
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ernesto
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Jonathan,
> > >
> > > Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
> > >
> > > Igor,
> > >
> > > I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
> > > better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a
> approved
> > > technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done
> 2
> > > years ago.
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
> > > helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend.
> > And I
> > > have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
> > > committee and will keep you guys posted.
> > >
> > > Lester
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jonathan Locke wrote:
> > >
> > >> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses
> > are
> > >> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain
> and
> > >> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
> > >> about
> > >> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is
> > why
> > >> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same
> seems
> > to
> > >> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired
> > for
> > >> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> > >>> numbers?"
> > >>>
> > >>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of
> hearts
> > >>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that
> they
> > >>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> > >>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do
> with
> > >>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> > >>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired
> > boss
> > >>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> > >>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why
> choose
> > >>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
> > >>> Wicket
> > >>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs
> Wicket):
> > >>>
> > http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> > >>>
> > >>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is
> great
> > >>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> > >>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
> > >>> Wicket.
> > >>>
> > >>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> > >>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> > >>> Immigration Office).
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sincerely yours
> > >>> Leo Erlandsson
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Per Lundholm <pe...@gmail.com>.
Since the PHB like to stay on the safe side of the fence, make them feel
safe with Wicket.
Tell successtories about Wicket. Tell failstories about other systems. :-)
/Per
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <
reiern70@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Lester,
>
> Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that wants
> to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
> "present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
> decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
> development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other
> candidates
> but that won't be easy...
>
> I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
> personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves "on
> the safe side of the fence".
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ernesto
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jonathan,
> >
> > Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
> >
> > Igor,
> >
> > I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
> > better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a approved
> > technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done 2
> > years ago.
> >
> > Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
> > helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend.
> And I
> > have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
> > committee and will keep you guys posted.
> >
> > Lester
> >
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Locke wrote:
> >
> >> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses
> are
> >> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
> >> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
> >> about
> >> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is
> why
> >> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems
> to
> >> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired
> for
> >> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
> >>
> >>
> >> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> >>> numbers?"
> >>>
> >>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> >>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> >>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> >>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> >>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> >>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired
> boss
> >>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> >>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> >>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
> >>> Wicket
> >>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> >>>
> >>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> >>>
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> >>>
> >>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> >>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> >>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
> >>> Wicket.
> >>>
> >>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> >>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> >>> Immigration Office).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely yours
> >>> Leo Erlandsson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <re...@gmail.com>.
Hi Lester,
Right now I'm in a similar situation: I'm working for a company that wants
to (possibly) change from struts 1.X to something else and it is my job
"present" the choices to the developers and managers, so that they can
decide which will be the next framework the company will adopt for WEB
development. I'm also trying to get Wicket adopted over the other candidates
but that won't be easy...
I fully agree with Jonathan: the only thing PHBs care about is theirs own
personal interests... So, they pay special attention to keep themselves "on
the safe side of the fence".
Cheers,
Ernesto
On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
>
> Igor,
>
> I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
> better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a approved
> technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was probably done 2
> years ago.
>
> Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
> helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend. And I
> have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the technical
> committee and will keep you guys posted.
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> Jonathan Locke wrote:
>
>> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
>> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
>> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care
>> about
>> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
>> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
>> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
>> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>>
>>
>> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>>> numbers?"
>>>
>>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
>>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>>> an inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also,
>>> Wicket
>>> is becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>>
>>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>>
>>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>>> that the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in
>>> Wicket.
>>>
>>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>>> Immigration Office).
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely yours
>>> Leo Erlandsson
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>.
Jonathan,
Bingo, I think you may have hit it on the spot.
Igor,
I have not managed to get a reply on how they determined Struts2 to be
better supported compared to Wicket. But I suspect the list of a
approved technologies is not very updated. I.e. the evaluation was
probably done 2 years ago.
Thanks for all the responses. The anecdotes and points made were very
helpful and have helped out get out of my depression over the weekend.
And I have written a long and hopefully thoughtful reply to the
technical committee and will keep you guys posted.
Lester
Jonathan Locke wrote:
> honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
> self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
> they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care about
> is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
> the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
> go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
> making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
>
>
> Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>
>> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
>> numbers?"
>>
>> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
>> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
>> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
>> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
>> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
>> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
>> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
>> To: users@wicket.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
>> an
>> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
>> is
>> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>
>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>
>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
>> that
>> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>>
>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>> Immigration Office).
>>
>>
>> Sincerely yours
>> Leo Erlandsson
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Jonathan Locke <jo...@gmail.com>.
honestly, your response is too thoughtful. these pointy haired bosses are
self-serving. they don't care about training costs or developer pain and
they don't really care if their org runs efficiently. what they care about
is that if there is a failure, their choice didn't cause it. which is why
the old saying goes "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." same seems to
go for struts. an idiotic technology choice, but you won't get fired for
making the same idiotic choice everyone else is making.
Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>
> "But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
> numbers?"
>
> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
> Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
> from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
> To: users@wicket.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>
> Hi,
>
> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> an
> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> is
> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>
> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>
> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
> that
> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>
> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> Immigration Office).
>
>
> Sincerely yours
> Leo Erlandsson
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
--
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by shetc <sh...@bellsouth.net>.
Leo, I actually persuaded my then pointy haired boss to go with Wicket
by putting together a side-by-side comparison of techniques required
for creating JSF, Struts and Wicket-based applications. It was obvious
that the Wicket approach was just plain out cleaner, and would save
money in medium-to-long run. As they say, it's just HTML and Java
-- it makes it fun being a mindless drone :-P
Loritsch, Berin C. wrote:
>
> The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
> that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
> can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
> with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
> trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
>
--
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Help-with-Wicket-Adoption-Numbers-tp27069702p27077379.html
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RE: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by "Loritsch, Berin C." <Be...@gd-ais.com>.
"But why choose an inferior technology just because of its adoption
numbers?"
The pointy haired bosses that do this believe in their heart of hearts
that if you choose the same technology everyone else is using that they
can turn thinking developers for mindless drones. It has more to do
with avoiding training costs and rational thought, and more to do with
trying to turn software development into an assembly line process.
Reality never fits this mold, but it doesn't stop the pointy haired boss
from trying. In this respect they are eternal optimists.
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com [mailto:Leo.Erlandsson@tyringe.com]
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 4:09 AM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Hi,
We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
an
inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
is
becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like
that
the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
Immigration Office).
Sincerely yours
Leo Erlandsson
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Pieter Degraeuwe <pi...@systemworks.be>.
The Flemish Goverenemt (Belgium) has at least 2 intranet applications built
on wicket. These are intranet applications, so I cannot give you some fancy
urls. (but the apps are really fancy, I can assure you :-) )
Pieter
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Martijn Dashorst <
martijn.dashorst@gmail.com> wrote:
> The dutch railways use wicket in at least one of their online apps
> (http://eropuit.nl), I know some dutch government agencies are using
> Wicket, dutch royal airlines (KLM) had/have a project using Wicket.
>
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <Le...@tyringe.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose
> an
> > inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket
> is
> > becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
> >
> > Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> > http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
> >
> > We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> > both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
> > the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
> >
> > I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> > using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> > Immigration Office).
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours
> > Leo Erlandsson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
> > 2010-01-08 01:43
> > Sänd svar till
> > users@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> > Till
> > users@wicket.apache.org
> > Kopia
> >
> > Ärende
> > Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> > Wicket for use in an organization.
> > I have:
> >
> > 1) Prototyped a small size module
> > 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
> >
> > No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> > was the result.
> >
> > BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> > because of..... of all things.....
> > - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> > Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
> >
> > My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> > will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> > (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> > considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> > involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> > lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
> > those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
> > only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> > entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> > dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
> > that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
> >
> > Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
> > and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
> > to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
> >
> > It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> > by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> > (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> > not as "clean" as Wicket.
> >
> > Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> > low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
> >
> > Lester
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
> Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications
> Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.4
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
Pieter Degraeuwe
Systemworks bvba
Belgiëlaan 61
9070 Destelbergen
GSM: +32 (0)485/68.60.85
Email: pieter.degraeuwe@systemworks.be
visit us at http://www.systemworks.be
Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Thies Edeling <te...@gmail.com>.
The e-ticket application of the Dutch railways (NS) uses Wicket as well,
https://www.ns.nl/eticket/ticket
On 1/8/2010 10:32 AM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> The dutch railways use wicket in at least one of their online apps
> (http://eropuit.nl), I know some dutch government agencies are using
> Wicket, dutch royal airlines (KLM) had/have a project using Wicket.
>
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM,<Le...@tyringe.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose an
>> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket is
>> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>>
>> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
>> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>>
>> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
>> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
>> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>>
>> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
>> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
>> Immigration Office).
>>
>>
>> Sincerely yours
>> Leo Erlandsson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lester Chua<ci...@gmail.com>
>> 2010-01-08 01:43
>> Sänd svar till
>> users@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>> Till
>> users@wicket.apache.org
>> Kopia
>>
>> Ärende
>> Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
>> Wicket for use in an organization.
>> I have:
>>
>> 1) Prototyped a small size module
>> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>>
>> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
>> was the result.
>>
>> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
>> because of..... of all things.....
>> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
>> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>>
>> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
>> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
>> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
>> considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
>> involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
>> lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
>> those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
>> only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
>> entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
>> dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
>> that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>>
>> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
>> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
>> to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>>
>> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
>> by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
>> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
>> not as "clean" as Wicket.
>>
>> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
>> low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>>
>> Lester
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
The dutch railways use wicket in at least one of their online apps
(http://eropuit.nl), I know some dutch government agencies are using
Wicket, dutch royal airlines (KLM) had/have a project using Wicket.
Martijn
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:09 AM, <Le...@tyringe.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose an
> inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket is
> becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
>
> Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
> http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
>
> We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
> both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
> the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
>
> I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
> using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
> Immigration Office).
>
>
> Sincerely yours
> Leo Erlandsson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
> 2010-01-08 01:43
> Sänd svar till
> users@wicket.apache.org
>
>
> Till
> users@wicket.apache.org
> Kopia
>
> Ärende
> Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
> Wicket for use in an organization.
> I have:
>
> 1) Prototyped a small size module
> 2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
>
> No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
> was the result.
>
> BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
> because of..... of all things.....
> - Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
> Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
>
> My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
> will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
> (for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
> considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
> involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
> lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
> those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
> only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
> entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
> dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
> that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
>
> Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
> and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
> to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
>
> It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
> by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
> (JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
> not as "clean" as Wicket.
>
> Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
> low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
>
> Lester
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
>
>
--
Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com
Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications
Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.4
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Re: Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Posted by Le...@tyringe.com.
Hi,
We also had the same consideration when we chose Wicket. But why choose an
inferior technology just because of it's Adoption Numbers? Also, Wicket is
becoming more and more popular as people see the light :)
Check out Jobs Trends (Relative Growth) here (JSF vs Struts vs Wicket):
http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=Struts%2C+JSF%2C+Wicket&l=&relative=1
We have a couple of hundred customers and so far the feedback is great
both from our Developers and our Software Architects. Customers like that
the GUIs are faster due to the simplicity of Ajax Adoption in Wicket.
I also know that several large privately held companies in Sweden are
using Wicket, as well as large Government Agencies (e.g. the Swedish
Immigration Office).
Sincerely yours
Leo Erlandsson
Lester Chua <ci...@gmail.com>
2010-01-08 01:43
Sänd svar till
users@wicket.apache.org
Till
users@wicket.apache.org
Kopia
Ärende
Help with Wicket Adoption Numbers
Hi,
I am facing a hurdle that need crossing in my final attempt to push
Wicket for use in an organization.
I have:
1) Prototyped a small size module
2) Did 2-3 presentations on the key features and advantages of wicket
No one is disputing my claims about productivity and good OO code that
was the result.
BUT, the technology evaluation committee is NOT recommending Wicket
because of..... of all things.....
- Wicket's Low Adoption Rate!!!!
Can I find any numbers to blow this away?
My alternative is to accept the finding and work with Struts 2. Which
will mean the stack will need to expand to DWR
(for security). I REALLY don't want to go there, and am even
considering not taking part in this project due to the high risk
involved, only 9 months to introduce huge changes to a system that has
lots of legacy problems (took about 3 years to build). I think a lot of
those years were spent wrestling with the monster that is EJB 1.1. The
only way I thought the project can even be on time is to scrap the
entire presentation layer (aka Struts) and redo it in Wicket with 1
dedicated developer while the rest of the team work on killing the beast
that is EJB 1.1 by refactoring the biz code.
Sigh, my choices are stark. It's either to keep the job and plough ahead
and probably fail spectacularly 9 months later or go hungry and explain
to my wife why we need to spend less on the kid......
It's easy to blame the tech committee but they did help me find wicket
by rejecting my initial proposal to build the new system on a
(JQuery+JSON+REST) framework, which can be very productive as well, if
not as "clean" as Wicket.
Sorry for rambling so much. Is there any way I can demolish the silly
low adoption rate argument (omg I still don't believe it can be so lame)?
Lester
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