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Posted to dev@ofbiz.apache.org by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com> on 2016/05/01 20:02:56 UTC
Re: A rant I could not hold (read: wanted to share)
For the moment I'm reading (one page a day :D) http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ as suggested by Sharan
Jacques
Le 28/10/2015 � 19:31, Jacques Le Roux a �crit :
> That's a good idea to start Gavin! I will try that 1st. I already looked at their documentation but only cursorily
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 27/10/2015 14:02, Gavin Mabie a �crit :
>> Let's bench mark against docs from the competition - like Open Bravo,
>> Adempiere etc.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ron Wheeler <rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>> wrote:
>>> +1
>>> As a newcomer, the docs were a big turn-off.
>>>
>>> Sharan is doing a great job of organizing it.
>>> I hope that we can do something with the Framework that makes a cleaner
>>> separation between the business application and the plumbing.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27/10/2015 4:12 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Don't take this too seriously, it's only a thought that crossed my mind
>>>> while reading this snippet at https://db.apache.org/newproject.html
>>>>
>>>> <<Well-documented products tend to build stronger communities than
>>>> products that rely [on] source code and JavaDocs alone.>>
>>>>
>>>> And it's is too long for a Tweet :)
>>>>
>>>> I know the OFBiz scope is very large, we are not focused on a topic like
>>>> the DB project. So I believe it's harder to well organise our
>>>> documentation, or rather, like the project, its scope is large (and
>>>> sometimes confusing with not clear borders between topics)
>>>>
>>>> But I think we also rely too much on examples in code. And documentation
>>>> in XSDs is not enough (a contrario, see the excellent work by Adrian at
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/Mini+Language+-+minilang+-+simple-method+-+Reference)
>>>> because this ways (code including properties files, JavaDocs, XSDs) we
>>>> don't cover the business cases and other aspects. In other simpler words,
>>>> it's not holistic!
>>>>
>>>> I know, I do that myself everyday, and for a long time. I also believe
>>>> the way I approach code in a new area in OFBiz (there are much) is often by
>>>> analogy. To be frank in some case it's even kinda Cargo Cult (don't get me
>>>> wrong I have nothing against real Cargo Cult ;))
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Cargo+Cult&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIpOyj7ZbiyAIVgtQaCh1KygbV&biw=2144&bih=839&dpr=0.9
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The documentation in wiki has improved so far. But, as the DB project
>>>> well stresses, if we could improve it more the OFBiz project would be taken
>>>> more seriously and we would get more attention. I will try to get into this
>>>> direction in the near future...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your attention so far :)
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Ron Wheeler
>>> President
>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>
>>>
>
Re: A rant I could not hold (read: wanted to share)
Posted by Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad it's useful. (I'm going through it
myself ! :-) )
I recommended the link because it's something that happens naturally and
before we know it becomes something to big and scary to even think
about. We know that we have some tidying up to do especially around
documentation and now with the recent initiative, the framework and
code, so it's about acknowledging the problem and then going ahead and
doing something about it.
Thanks
Sharan
On 02/05/16 08:41, Taher Alkhateeb wrote:an
> Hi Jacques,
>
> Very useful and interesting. The material seems to be give even more value
> for obsessive compulsive people like me :) Thank you.
>
> Taher Alkhateeb
>
> On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> For the moment I'm reading (one page a day :D)
>> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ as suggested by Sharan
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>> Le 28/10/2015 � 19:31, Jacques Le Roux a �crit :
>>
>>> That's a good idea to start Gavin! I will try that 1st. I already looked
>>> at their documentation but only cursorily
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 27/10/2015 14:02, Gavin Mabie a �crit :
>>>
>>>> Let's bench mark against docs from the competition - like Open Bravo,
>>>> Adempiere etc.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ron Wheeler <
>>>> rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> +1
>>>>> As a newcomer, the docs were a big turn-off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sharan is doing a great job of organizing it.
>>>>> I hope that we can do something with the Framework that makes a cleaner
>>>>> separation between the business application and the plumbing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27/10/2015 4:12 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Don't take this too seriously, it's only a thought that crossed my mind
>>>>>> while reading this snippet at https://db.apache.org/newproject.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <<Well-documented products tend to build stronger communities than
>>>>>> products that rely [on] source code and JavaDocs alone.>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it's is too long for a Tweet :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know the OFBiz scope is very large, we are not focused on a topic
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> the DB project. So I believe it's harder to well organise our
>>>>>> documentation, or rather, like the project, its scope is large (and
>>>>>> sometimes confusing with not clear borders between topics)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I think we also rely too much on examples in code. And
>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>> in XSDs is not enough (a contrario, see the excellent work by Adrian at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/Mini+Language+-+minilang+-+simple-method+-+Reference
>>>>>> )
>>>>>> because this ways (code including properties files, JavaDocs, XSDs) we
>>>>>> don't cover the business cases and other aspects. In other simpler
>>>>>> words,
>>>>>> it's not holistic!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know, I do that myself everyday, and for a long time. I also believe
>>>>>> the way I approach code in a new area in OFBiz (there are much) is
>>>>>> often by
>>>>>> analogy. To be frank in some case it's even kinda Cargo Cult (don't
>>>>>> get me
>>>>>> wrong I have nothing against real Cargo Cult ;))
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Cargo+Cult&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIpOyj7ZbiyAIVgtQaCh1KygbV&biw=2144&bih=839&dpr=0.9
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The documentation in wiki has improved so far. But, as the DB project
>>>>>> well stresses, if we could improve it more the OFBiz project would be
>>>>>> taken
>>>>>> more seriously and we would get more attention. I will try to get into
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> direction in the near future...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your attention so far :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Ron Wheeler
>>>>> President
>>>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>>>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
Re: A rant I could not hold (read: wanted to share)
Posted by Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jacques,
Very useful and interesting. The material seems to be give even more value
for obsessive compulsive people like me :) Thank you.
Taher Alkhateeb
On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> For the moment I'm reading (one page a day :D)
> http://www.howtomakesenseofanymess.com/ as suggested by Sharan
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 28/10/2015 à 19:31, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
>
>> That's a good idea to start Gavin! I will try that 1st. I already looked
>> at their documentation but only cursorily
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 27/10/2015 14:02, Gavin Mabie a écrit :
>>
>>> Let's bench mark against docs from the competition - like Open Bravo,
>>> Adempiere etc.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Ron Wheeler <
>>> rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> +1
>>>> As a newcomer, the docs were a big turn-off.
>>>>
>>>> Sharan is doing a great job of organizing it.
>>>> I hope that we can do something with the Framework that makes a cleaner
>>>> separation between the business application and the plumbing.
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 27/10/2015 4:12 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't take this too seriously, it's only a thought that crossed my mind
>>>>> while reading this snippet at https://db.apache.org/newproject.html
>>>>>
>>>>> <<Well-documented products tend to build stronger communities than
>>>>> products that rely [on] source code and JavaDocs alone.>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's is too long for a Tweet :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the OFBiz scope is very large, we are not focused on a topic
>>>>> like
>>>>> the DB project. So I believe it's harder to well organise our
>>>>> documentation, or rather, like the project, its scope is large (and
>>>>> sometimes confusing with not clear borders between topics)
>>>>>
>>>>> But I think we also rely too much on examples in code. And
>>>>> documentation
>>>>> in XSDs is not enough (a contrario, see the excellent work by Adrian at
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBADMIN/Mini+Language+-+minilang+-+simple-method+-+Reference
>>>>> )
>>>>> because this ways (code including properties files, JavaDocs, XSDs) we
>>>>> don't cover the business cases and other aspects. In other simpler
>>>>> words,
>>>>> it's not holistic!
>>>>>
>>>>> I know, I do that myself everyday, and for a long time. I also believe
>>>>> the way I approach code in a new area in OFBiz (there are much) is
>>>>> often by
>>>>> analogy. To be frank in some case it's even kinda Cargo Cult (don't
>>>>> get me
>>>>> wrong I have nothing against real Cargo Cult ;))
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Cargo+Cult&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIpOyj7ZbiyAIVgtQaCh1KygbV&biw=2144&bih=839&dpr=0.9
>>>>>
>>>>> The documentation in wiki has improved so far. But, as the DB project
>>>>> well stresses, if we could improve it more the OFBiz project would be
>>>>> taken
>>>>> more seriously and we would get more attention. I will try to get into
>>>>> this
>>>>> direction in the near future...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your attention so far :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Ron Wheeler
>>>> President
>>>> Artifact Software Inc
>>>> email: rwheeler@artifact-software.com
>>>> skype: ronaldmwheeler
>>>> phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>