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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by "Ralf S. Engelschall" <rs...@engelschall.com> on 1998/12/02 09:04:14 UTC
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
In article <19...@hyperreal.org> you wrote:
> randy 98/12/01 16:00:20
> Modified: . Makefile.tmpl configure
> src CHANGES Configuration.tmpl Configure Makefile.tmpl
> src/include httpd.h
> src/main http_config.c http_log.c http_main.c util.c
> src/modules/proxy proxy_cache.c
> src/modules/standard mod_include.c mod_log_agent.c
> mod_log_config.c mod_log_referer.c mod_mime.c
> src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
> Log:
> Fix TARGET configuration when configuring and installing using
> APACI configure. TARGET now defines the basename of the configuration
> file, startup script, manual page, etc. log_error_core() now reports
> the server binary name given by argv[0]. TARGET can now also be defined
> with --target=TARGET parameter passed to APACI configure.
It's fine except for those changes, IMHO:
>[...]
> + echo "| $(sbindir)/$(TARGET)ctl start"; \
>[...]
> + -e 's;logs/access_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-access_log;' \
> + -e 's;logs/error_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-error_log;' \
> + -e 's;logs/referer_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-referer_log;' \
> + -e 's;logs/agent_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-agent_log;' \
>[...]
Because these provide compat problems: The default for TARGET is "httpd", so
the script is now named "httpdctl". Although this is useful, it's not
compatible with the old days. So we have to either don't do this or document
is very cleanly.
Second, the logfiles are created now as "httpd-xxxx" per default. Although I
also like this idea (because it solves another conflict) we here again have
some compat problem: People perhaps don't find the files.
So my suggestion is to at least document those two changes _VERY_ good or we
have new confusion points in the community ("The docs said I should run
apachectl but there is no such script").
Beside this two points, the patch looks correct to me,
so +1 even it's a little bit late now to give my vote ;-)
Ralf S. Engelschall
rse@engelschall.com
www.engelschall.com
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
Posted by Randy Terbush <ra...@Covalent.NET>.
Marc Slemko <ma...@worldgate.com> writes:
> On 2 Dec 1998, Randy Terbush wrote:
>
> > "Ralf S. Engelschall" <rs...@engelschall.com> writes:
> > > In article <19...@hyperreal.org> you wrote:
> > > > randy 98/12/01 16:00:20
> > >
> > > > Modified: . Makefile.tmpl configure
> > > > src CHANGES Configuration.tmpl Configure Makefile.tmpl
> > > > src/include httpd.h
> > > > src/main http_config.c http_log.c http_main.c util.c
> > > > src/modules/proxy proxy_cache.c
> > > > src/modules/standard mod_include.c mod_log_agent.c
> > > > mod_log_config.c mod_log_referer.c mod_mime.c
> > > > src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
> > > > Log:
> > > > Fix TARGET configuration when configuring and installing using
> > > > APACI configure. TARGET now defines the basename of the configuration
> > > > file, startup script, manual page, etc. log_error_core() now reports
> > > > the server binary name given by argv[0]. TARGET can now also be defined
> > > > with --target=TARGET parameter passed to APACI configure.
> > I would prefer to deal with this with some documentation. If we don't
> > do these two changes, we give them the car without the keys.
>
> There is no way you can deal with this in documentation. I really do
> NOT like magically changing the names of things. That was never
> presented as part of this change, and makes it even worse.
The only thing in this case that receives a name change is
apachectl. If the default binary name was 'apache' then it would not
change.
> There are things that can use cleaning up, but it is NOT appropriate
> to do a half-assed job of it and it is really not appropriate to go
> crazy in 1.3. Even worse than having two interfaces for doing things is
> randomly changing the defaults for no reason.
Seems that we would be doing a "half-assed job" by not providing a
startup script for the new target name. An alternative would be to
change apachectl to allow us to pass the server binary name. But that
seems to be more confusing to me than to have separate startup
scripts.
> I have very very very rarely seen anyone having trouble with
> multiple installations in one directory or whatever the rationale for
> this change supposedly is that would be helped by this. If anything,
> they would just be far more confused.
>
> The whole idea when this started was that having arbitrary odd paths
> used by configure that one person just made up is a problem. Now
> we are just changing it to other arbitrary odd "paths" and like things
> that someone else made up.
No. There were two issues here.
1. The path issue
2. The TARGET name issue.
Your complaints seem to be with the TARGET name issue. The TARGET
functionality did not exist in APACI configure. We move this
configuration issue closer to close by resolving that. It seems to me
that the changes that went in can be supported by logic and I can't
see where arguing for the status quo helps resolve these
inconsistancies.
> I do not see the problems that warrent a lot of this changing to try
> to make things perfect, and do not feel it is appropriate for 1.3.x.
Seems we are really talking about one minor issue here that I think we
can reach agreement on. If you are really set on keeping the startup
script named apachectl when the default target is used, that is easily
fixable, but I do think that we need to be creating some other file
names when the target is not the default.
-Randy
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
Posted by Randy Terbush <ra...@Covalent.NET>.
I was kind of waiting to see more such discussion on this. Ralf and I
have exchanged some patches that will leave naming as is unless a
TARGET has been specified. Is this acceptable?
I'll forward the patch later this afternoon.
Paul Sutton <pa...@c2.net> writes:
> On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:
> > On 2 Dec 1998, Randy Terbush wrote:
> > > I would prefer to deal with this with some documentation. If we don't
> > > do these two changes, we give them the car without the keys.
> >
> > There is no way you can deal with this in documentation. I really do
> > NOT like magically changing the names of things. That was never
> > presented as part of this change, and makes it even worse.
> >
> > There are things that can use cleaning up, but it is NOT appropriate
> > to do a half-assed job of it and it is really not appropriate to go
> > crazy in 1.3. Even worse than having two interfaces for doing things is
> > randomly changing the defaults for no reason.
>
> Umm, so now the default httpd.conf contains differences in the configured
> names of the following files:
>
> ScoreBoardFile (if used)
> LockFile (if used)
> ErrorLog
> CustomLog
> RefererLog (if used)
> AgentLog (if used)
>
> The ctl script is httpdctl instead of apachectl.
>
> This is going to be incredibly confusing. If the user hasn't specified a
> different target name with --target then we should ensure that
> _everything_ has the same filename as a previous installation. Otherwise
> there was no point with the recent ./configure changes to put us back to
> the original directory and file layout.
>
> I think this is a solution to a very minor problem, which is going to
> cause a lot more problems than it will solve.
>
> > I do not see the problems that warrent a lot of this changing to try
> > to make things perfect, and do not feel it is appropriate for 1.3.x.
>
> I agree.
>
> Paul
> --
> Paul Sutton, C2Net Europe http://www.eu.c2.net/~paul/
> Editor, Apache Week .. the latest Apache news http://www.apacheweek.com/
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
Posted by Paul Sutton <pa...@c2.net>.
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Marc Slemko wrote:
> On 2 Dec 1998, Randy Terbush wrote:
> > I would prefer to deal with this with some documentation. If we don't
> > do these two changes, we give them the car without the keys.
>
> There is no way you can deal with this in documentation. I really do
> NOT like magically changing the names of things. That was never
> presented as part of this change, and makes it even worse.
>
> There are things that can use cleaning up, but it is NOT appropriate
> to do a half-assed job of it and it is really not appropriate to go
> crazy in 1.3. Even worse than having two interfaces for doing things is
> randomly changing the defaults for no reason.
Umm, so now the default httpd.conf contains differences in the configured
names of the following files:
ScoreBoardFile (if used)
LockFile (if used)
ErrorLog
CustomLog
RefererLog (if used)
AgentLog (if used)
The ctl script is httpdctl instead of apachectl.
This is going to be incredibly confusing. If the user hasn't specified a
different target name with --target then we should ensure that
_everything_ has the same filename as a previous installation. Otherwise
there was no point with the recent ./configure changes to put us back to
the original directory and file layout.
I think this is a solution to a very minor problem, which is going to
cause a lot more problems than it will solve.
> I do not see the problems that warrent a lot of this changing to try
> to make things perfect, and do not feel it is appropriate for 1.3.x.
I agree.
Paul
--
Paul Sutton, C2Net Europe http://www.eu.c2.net/~paul/
Editor, Apache Week .. the latest Apache news http://www.apacheweek.com/
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
Posted by Marc Slemko <ma...@worldgate.com>.
On 2 Dec 1998, Randy Terbush wrote:
> "Ralf S. Engelschall" <rs...@engelschall.com> writes:
> > In article <19...@hyperreal.org> you wrote:
> > > randy 98/12/01 16:00:20
> >
> > > Modified: . Makefile.tmpl configure
> > > src CHANGES Configuration.tmpl Configure Makefile.tmpl
> > > src/include httpd.h
> > > src/main http_config.c http_log.c http_main.c util.c
> > > src/modules/proxy proxy_cache.c
> > > src/modules/standard mod_include.c mod_log_agent.c
> > > mod_log_config.c mod_log_referer.c mod_mime.c
> > > src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
> > > Log:
> > > Fix TARGET configuration when configuring and installing using
> > > APACI configure. TARGET now defines the basename of the configuration
> > > file, startup script, manual page, etc. log_error_core() now reports
> > > the server binary name given by argv[0]. TARGET can now also be defined
> > > with --target=TARGET parameter passed to APACI configure.
> >
> > It's fine except for those changes, IMHO:
> >
> > >[...]
> > > + echo "| $(sbindir)/$(TARGET)ctl start"; \
> > >[...]
> > > + -e 's;logs/access_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-access_log;' \
> > > + -e 's;logs/error_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-error_log;' \
> > > + -e 's;logs/referer_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-referer_log;' \
> > > + -e 's;logs/agent_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-agent_log;' \
> > >[...]
> >
> > Because these provide compat problems: The default for TARGET is "httpd", so
> > the script is now named "httpdctl". Although this is useful, it's not
> > compatible with the old days. So we have to either don't do this or document
> > is very cleanly.
> >
> > Second, the logfiles are created now as "httpd-xxxx" per default. Although I
> > also like this idea (because it solves another conflict) we here again have
> > some compat problem: People perhaps don't find the files.
> >
> > So my suggestion is to at least document those two changes _VERY_ good or we
> > have new confusion points in the community ("The docs said I should run
> > apachectl but there is no such script").
>
> I would prefer to deal with this with some documentation. If we don't
> do these two changes, we give them the car without the keys.
There is no way you can deal with this in documentation. I really do
NOT like magically changing the names of things. That was never
presented as part of this change, and makes it even worse.
There are things that can use cleaning up, but it is NOT appropriate
to do a half-assed job of it and it is really not appropriate to go
crazy in 1.3. Even worse than having two interfaces for doing things is
randomly changing the defaults for no reason.
I have very very very rarely seen anyone having trouble with
multiple installations in one directory or whatever the rationale for
this change supposedly is that would be helped by this. If anything,
they would just be far more confused.
The whole idea when this started was that having arbitrary odd paths
used by configure that one person just made up is a problem. Now
we are just changing it to other arbitrary odd "paths" and like things
that someone else made up.
I do not see the problems that warrent a lot of this changing to try
to make things perfect, and do not feel it is appropriate for 1.3.x.
Re: cvs commit: apache-1.3/src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
Posted by Randy Terbush <ra...@Covalent.NET>.
"Ralf S. Engelschall" <rs...@engelschall.com> writes:
> In article <19...@hyperreal.org> you wrote:
> > randy 98/12/01 16:00:20
>
> > Modified: . Makefile.tmpl configure
> > src CHANGES Configuration.tmpl Configure Makefile.tmpl
> > src/include httpd.h
> > src/main http_config.c http_log.c http_main.c util.c
> > src/modules/proxy proxy_cache.c
> > src/modules/standard mod_include.c mod_log_agent.c
> > mod_log_config.c mod_log_referer.c mod_mime.c
> > src/support Makefile.tmpl apxs.pl
> > Log:
> > Fix TARGET configuration when configuring and installing using
> > APACI configure. TARGET now defines the basename of the configuration
> > file, startup script, manual page, etc. log_error_core() now reports
> > the server binary name given by argv[0]. TARGET can now also be defined
> > with --target=TARGET parameter passed to APACI configure.
>
> It's fine except for those changes, IMHO:
>
> >[...]
> > + echo "| $(sbindir)/$(TARGET)ctl start"; \
> >[...]
> > + -e 's;logs/access_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-access_log;' \
> > + -e 's;logs/error_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-error_log;' \
> > + -e 's;logs/referer_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-referer_log;' \
> > + -e 's;logs/agent_log;$(logfiledir)/$(TARGET)-agent_log;' \
> >[...]
>
> Because these provide compat problems: The default for TARGET is "httpd", so
> the script is now named "httpdctl". Although this is useful, it's not
> compatible with the old days. So we have to either don't do this or document
> is very cleanly.
>
> Second, the logfiles are created now as "httpd-xxxx" per default. Although I
> also like this idea (because it solves another conflict) we here again have
> some compat problem: People perhaps don't find the files.
>
> So my suggestion is to at least document those two changes _VERY_ good or we
> have new confusion points in the community ("The docs said I should run
> apachectl but there is no such script").
I would prefer to deal with this with some documentation. If we don't
do these two changes, we give them the car without the keys.
> Beside this two points, the patch looks correct to me,
> so +1 even it's a little bit late now to give my vote ;-)
Since we are commit then review, I'm less tied to the voting process
on these things. I needed to get this stuff in in order to work on
other proposed changes, so don't feel bad because you didn't get to
vote.
-Randy