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Posted to dev@deltacloud.apache.org by Carlos Gonçalves <ma...@cgoncalves.info> on 2012/05/03 12:47:46 UTC
DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Dear all,
As suggested by Marios on IRC the other day, I'm opening here a new thread for max discussion on the subject of the future of DeltaCloud in terms of APIs available to the user. The question is short, though I foresee complex and perhaps political answers due to the nature of the topic.
Currently DeltaCloud supports two APIs: its own API and CIMI API. They are not interoperable between them, and neither have been standardized yet. CIMI is just a step away from being officially released as a first final version (1.0.0) cloud standard by DMTF, where DeltaCloud API has not yet even been proposed to be one as far as I know.
Until very recently I though CIMI support on DeltaCloud was somewhat a trivial and an "automagically" translation from/to DeltaCloud API but I've been proven to mistaken when I gave Marios' new OpenStack v2 driver a spin using CIMI. This led me to question of whether DeltaCloud should support both APIs or just focus on just one, with CIMI being the most logical model and interface to be adopted rather DeltaCloud's own.
I believe the possible move to CIMI-only would bump the project visibility but would require a major code rewritten, I suppose.
So, thoughts on this? :-)
Regards,
Carlos Goncalves
RE: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Posted by David Lutterkort <lu...@redhat.com>.
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 23:14 +1000, Koper, Dies wrote:
> I wonder how many cloud providers will support the CIMI API.
> If all DMTF members will support it, wouldn't that render DC obsolete?
> If few DMTF members will actually support it, what is the real benefit
> to users for DC to be CIMI -only?
I think you've hit the nail on the head - right now, we have users of
the Deltacloud API, while the future of CIMI is still to be charted. At
the same time, we want to help CIMI to be successful, so I don't see an
alternative to having both frontends for now.
I think a discussion around CIMI only is premature, even though I hope
that it will prove to be a technical and market success. Once we have
more clarity on that, we should take this up again; at that point, the
one thing that is nonnegotiable is that existing users aren't left
holding the bag and need to rewrite everything.
In the meantime, every patch that gets submitted for CIMI helps in
making it successful.
David
Re: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Posted by Doug Davis <du...@us.ibm.com>.
<de-lurking> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/cimi
</de-lurking>
Just FYI.
thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM | Standards Architect | IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905 | IBM 444-6905 | dug@us.ibm.com
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
Carlos Gonçalves <ma...@cgoncalves.info>
05/03/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Hi Dies,
I did not mean the API between IaaS providers and DeltaCloud because I
don't see providers such as Amazon EC2 supporting CIMI at least in the
sort run, but the API DeltaCloud users use to communicate with DeltaCloud
abstracting themselves from each IaaS provider own API.
If CIMI gets really spread I guess some IaaS software projects,
open-source mainly, will start supporting CIMI, either as their only
available API or as an secondary API. For instance, there is a working
group adding OCCI support on OpenStack[1]. While some providers may opt to
offer a standard cloud API (OCCI or CIMI) to their services, others just
won't because that would somehow mean easing interoperability with
competitor cloud vendors, giving up of their vendor lock-in strategy and
hence loosing money - that's my point of view :-)
So, no, I don't see DeltaCloud getting obsolete, ever (?).
Hope I've answered all your questions. If not, please let me know and I'll
rephrase.
Thanks,
Carlos Goncalves
[1] http://occi-wg.org/2012/02/14/occi-in-openstack/
On 3 May 2012, at 14:14, Koper, Dies wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I wonder how many cloud providers will support the CIMI API.
> If all DMTF members will support it, wouldn't that render DC obsolete?
> If few DMTF members will actually support it, what is the real benefit
to users for DC to be CIMI -only?
>
> Are you assuming it will take a long time for the members to release
their respective CIMI implementations (as it took them a long time to
publish the standard) and DC's objective should be to bridge that period?
>
> Regards,
> Dies Koper
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carlos Gonçalves [mailto:mail@cgoncalves.info]
>> Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012 8:48 PM
>> To: dev@deltacloud.apache.org
>> Subject: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As suggested by Marios on IRC the other day, I'm opening here a new
>> thread for max discussion on the subject of the future of DeltaCloud in
>> terms of APIs available to the user. The question is short, though I
foresee
>> complex and perhaps political answers due to the nature of the topic.
>>
>> Currently DeltaCloud supports two APIs: its own API and CIMI API. They
are
>> not interoperable between them, and neither have been standardized yet.
>> CIMI is just a step away from being officially released as a first
final version
>> (1.0.0) cloud standard by DMTF, where DeltaCloud API has not yet even
>> been proposed to be one as far as I know.
>>
>> Until very recently I though CIMI support on DeltaCloud was somewhat a
>> trivial and an "automagically" translation from/to DeltaCloud API but
I've
>> been proven to mistaken when I gave Marios' new OpenStack v2 driver a
>> spin using CIMI. This led me to question of whether DeltaCloud should
>> support both APIs or just focus on just one, with CIMI being the most
>> logical model and interface to be adopted rather DeltaCloud's own.
>>
>> I believe the possible move to CIMI-only would bump the project
visibility
>> but would require a major code rewritten, I suppose.
>>
>> So, thoughts on this? :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Carlos Goncalves
>>
>
>
Re: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Posted by Carlos Gonçalves <ma...@cgoncalves.info>.
Hi Dies,
I did not mean the API between IaaS providers and DeltaCloud because I don't see providers such as Amazon EC2 supporting CIMI at least in the sort run, but the API DeltaCloud users use to communicate with DeltaCloud abstracting themselves from each IaaS provider own API.
If CIMI gets really spread I guess some IaaS software projects, open-source mainly, will start supporting CIMI, either as their only available API or as an secondary API. For instance, there is a working group adding OCCI support on OpenStack[1]. While some providers may opt to offer a standard cloud API (OCCI or CIMI) to their services, others just won't because that would somehow mean easing interoperability with competitor cloud vendors, giving up of their vendor lock-in strategy and hence loosing money - that's my point of view :-)
So, no, I don't see DeltaCloud getting obsolete, ever (?).
Hope I've answered all your questions. If not, please let me know and I'll rephrase.
Thanks,
Carlos Goncalves
[1] http://occi-wg.org/2012/02/14/occi-in-openstack/
On 3 May 2012, at 14:14, Koper, Dies wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I wonder how many cloud providers will support the CIMI API.
> If all DMTF members will support it, wouldn't that render DC obsolete?
> If few DMTF members will actually support it, what is the real benefit to users for DC to be CIMI -only?
>
> Are you assuming it will take a long time for the members to release their respective CIMI implementations (as it took them a long time to publish the standard) and DC's objective should be to bridge that period?
>
> Regards,
> Dies Koper
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carlos Gonçalves [mailto:mail@cgoncalves.info]
>> Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012 8:48 PM
>> To: dev@deltacloud.apache.org
>> Subject: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As suggested by Marios on IRC the other day, I'm opening here a new
>> thread for max discussion on the subject of the future of DeltaCloud in
>> terms of APIs available to the user. The question is short, though I foresee
>> complex and perhaps political answers due to the nature of the topic.
>>
>> Currently DeltaCloud supports two APIs: its own API and CIMI API. They are
>> not interoperable between them, and neither have been standardized yet.
>> CIMI is just a step away from being officially released as a first final version
>> (1.0.0) cloud standard by DMTF, where DeltaCloud API has not yet even
>> been proposed to be one as far as I know.
>>
>> Until very recently I though CIMI support on DeltaCloud was somewhat a
>> trivial and an "automagically" translation from/to DeltaCloud API but I've
>> been proven to mistaken when I gave Marios' new OpenStack v2 driver a
>> spin using CIMI. This led me to question of whether DeltaCloud should
>> support both APIs or just focus on just one, with CIMI being the most
>> logical model and interface to be adopted rather DeltaCloud's own.
>>
>> I believe the possible move to CIMI-only would bump the project visibility
>> but would require a major code rewritten, I suppose.
>>
>> So, thoughts on this? :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Carlos Goncalves
>>
>
>
RE: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
Posted by "Koper, Dies" <di...@fast.au.fujitsu.com>.
Hi Carlos,
I wonder how many cloud providers will support the CIMI API.
If all DMTF members will support it, wouldn't that render DC obsolete?
If few DMTF members will actually support it, what is the real benefit to users for DC to be CIMI -only?
Are you assuming it will take a long time for the members to release their respective CIMI implementations (as it took them a long time to publish the standard) and DC's objective should be to bridge that period?
Regards,
Dies Koper
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Gonçalves [mailto:mail@cgoncalves.info]
> Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012 8:48 PM
> To: dev@deltacloud.apache.org
> Subject: DeltaCloud API and CIMI
>
> Dear all,
>
> As suggested by Marios on IRC the other day, I'm opening here a new
> thread for max discussion on the subject of the future of DeltaCloud in
> terms of APIs available to the user. The question is short, though I foresee
> complex and perhaps political answers due to the nature of the topic.
>
> Currently DeltaCloud supports two APIs: its own API and CIMI API. They are
> not interoperable between them, and neither have been standardized yet.
> CIMI is just a step away from being officially released as a first final version
> (1.0.0) cloud standard by DMTF, where DeltaCloud API has not yet even
> been proposed to be one as far as I know.
>
> Until very recently I though CIMI support on DeltaCloud was somewhat a
> trivial and an "automagically" translation from/to DeltaCloud API but I've
> been proven to mistaken when I gave Marios' new OpenStack v2 driver a
> spin using CIMI. This led me to question of whether DeltaCloud should
> support both APIs or just focus on just one, with CIMI being the most
> logical model and interface to be adopted rather DeltaCloud's own.
>
> I believe the possible move to CIMI-only would bump the project visibility
> but would require a major code rewritten, I suppose.
>
> So, thoughts on this? :-)
>
> Regards,
> Carlos Goncalves
>