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Posted to phoenix-dev@avalon.apache.org by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> on 2002/11/06 01:59:00 UTC

Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Peter Donald wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone want to volunteer convert the Phoenix documentation to Forrest 
> (http://xml.apache.org/forrest) ? I have created a skin that emulates the 
> current Avalon skin and it is checked into the forrest CVS (thanks Jeff!) and 
> it is named "avalon-tigris".
> 
> The steps involved in doing this include;
> * creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests document DTD
> * converting all the docs to this new DTD
> * updating the build process to actually use forrest

Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?

> In the future it would be nice if the site was automatically rebuilt on a 
> regular basis and uploaded to the jakarta.apache.org machine. I believe that 
> there is currently a "forrestbot" to do this but I don't have anywhere to 
> host it.
> 
> So any volunteers?

I have to make up, especially to you, for the previous site adventures.
Can I dare to volunteer?

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 01:11, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 12:56:05PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > > > The steps involved in doing this include;
> > > > * creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests
> > > > document DTD
> > > > * converting all the docs to this new DTD
>
> Or, to respect Berin's previously stated request, do the conversion on
> the fly.  Btw, there's a docbook2document.xsl in Forrest which is an
> expanded version of the one Berin wrote.

None of the phoenix stuff is done in docbook atm. I want to convert it into 
docbook and make a couple of uber docbook guides but this will come in time.

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
----------------------------------------
Whatever you do will be insignificant, 
but it is very important that you do it. 
                              --Gandhi
---------------------------------------- 


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Re: Adding new content types (Re: Forrestize Phoenix)

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 04:34:34PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> 
>>On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:23, Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 03:41:58PM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>[from an avalon-dev thread]
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>And finally the latest tigris skin stuff:
>>>>
>>>>http://style.tigris.org/nonav/dev/docs/sampler_inst.html
>>>
>>>Woo.. very nice.
>>>
>>>I think in Forrest we're not really presenting a compelling case for
>>>separating content and presentation.  It would be great if we could, say,
>>>colourise code by language with <source type="java">, or XML, as done at:
>>>
>>>http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/doc/intro-examples

The chaperon parser can do it, and it's part of my commit for the 
wiki-like editing.
We can hardcode XML and Java in for now and move it to be pluggable 
later on.

>>kool - and while you are at it I would LOVE to see something like
>>
>><link 
>>href="javadoc:org.apache.avalon.framework.ExceptionUtil#printStackTrace"/>
> 
> 
> Yes, it's somewhere near the top of the todo list.  Mine anyway.. I have
> a site needing this.

Cool :-)

It's still about enabling "mounting" pre-generated content in the 
Forrest URI space, no?

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Adding new content types (Re: Forrestize Phoenix)

Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 04:34:34PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:23, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 03:41:58PM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > [from an avalon-dev thread]
> > ...
> >
> > > And finally the latest tigris skin stuff:
> > >
> > > http://style.tigris.org/nonav/dev/docs/sampler_inst.html
> >
> > Woo.. very nice.
> >
> > I think in Forrest we're not really presenting a compelling case for
> > separating content and presentation.  It would be great if we could, say,
> > colourise code by language with <source type="java">, or XML, as done at:
> >
> > http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/doc/intro-examples
> 
> kool - and while you are at it I would LOVE to see something like
> 
> <link 
> href="javadoc:org.apache.avalon.framework.ExceptionUtil#printStackTrace"/>

Yes, it's somewhere near the top of the todo list.  Mine anyway.. I have
a site needing this.

--Jeff

Re: Adding new content types (Re: Forrestize Phoenix)

Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:23, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 03:41:58PM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> [from an avalon-dev thread]
> ...
>
> > And finally the latest tigris skin stuff:
> >
> > http://style.tigris.org/nonav/dev/docs/sampler_inst.html
>
> Woo.. very nice.
>
> I think in Forrest we're not really presenting a compelling case for
> separating content and presentation.  It would be great if we could, say,
> colourise code by language with <source type="java">, or XML, as done at:
>
> http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/doc/intro-examples

kool - and while you are at it I would LOVE to see something like

<link 
href="javadoc:org.apache.avalon.framework.ExceptionUtil#printStackTrace"/>

or similar work. 

You would need to add configuration like

<packages>
  <packagelist base="http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/api"
               file="avalon-package-list"/>
  <packagelist base="http://java.sun.com/jdk1.4.1/docs/api"
               file="jdk-package-list"/>
</packages>

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------------*
| "Religion is what the common people see as true, the |
| wise people see as false, and the rulers see as      |
| useful" --Seneca                                     |
*------------------------------------------------------*


Adding new content types (Re: Forrestize Phoenix)

Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 03:41:58PM +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
[from an avalon-dev thread]
...
> And finally the latest tigris skin stuff:
> 
> http://style.tigris.org/nonav/dev/docs/sampler_inst.html

Woo.. very nice.

I think in Forrest we're not really presenting a compelling case for
separating content and presentation.  It would be great if we could, say,
colourise code by language with <source type="java">, or XML, as done at:

http://www.orbeon.com/oxf/doc/intro-examples

Or be able to describe directory hierarchies with:

<dirstruct>
  <dir name="/">
    Root directory
    <dir name="lib">
      Contains jars
    </dir>
    <dir name="src">
      Source files
      <file name="manifest">
        Jar manifest
      </file>
    </dir>
  </dir>
<dirstruct>

and have it print a nice hierarchy as on the tigris page.

Forrest really needs to make adding project-specific elements easy..
eg:

1) author a schema addition in dead simple RNG compact format:

start =         dirstruct
dirstruct =     element dirstruct {
                    (file | dir)*
                }
dir =           element dir {
                    attribute name {fsName},
                    text?,
                    (dir | file)*
                }
file =          element file {
                    attribute name {fsName},
                    text
                }
fsName =        xsd:string { minLength = "1" }

2) Depending on skin, create a CSS or XSLT definition to render the
new element.
3) Drop these in a special directory, say src/documentation/skinconf/,
and Forrest does the rest.


Just random thoughts..


--Jeff

Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 12:56:05PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>
>>>>The steps involved in doing this include;
>>>>* creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests
>>>>document DTD
>>>>* converting all the docs to this new DTD
>>>
> 
> Or, to respect Berin's previously stated request, do the conversion on
> the fly.  Btw, there's a docbook2document.xsl in Forrest which is an
> expanded version of the one Berin wrote.

Cool.

>>>>* updating the build process to actually use forrest
>>>
>>>Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?
>>
>>We can do that. But the docs need to be generated as part of the "dist" ant 
>>target. So I figured the best way was to call forrest from docs.xml - is 
>>there an alternative ?
> 
> 
> There is an "Invoking Forrest from Ant" section at the end of
> http://xml.apache.org/forrest/your-project.html
> 
> Basically, Forrest provides a build.xml snippet containing:
> 
>  - the Forrest targets (site, webapp, war, validate)
>  - a script to look for $FORREST_HOME, or ${forrest.home} defined in any
>    properties file, including .ant.propeties
>  - if Forrest wasn't found, prints a message describing how to install
>    Forrest.

Yup, using that now, you're a cool bean, Jeff :-)

>>>Can I dare to volunteer?
>>
>>That would be fantastic!
> 
> 
> :) If you run out of time, pass the baton..

Actually, the xml is 99% well-formed, and I already have it working :-)
ASA I have a bit of time I'll check it.

As for the skin, I was musing over a Forrest skin with the same color 
tones as the tigris one...

Look for example at these test sites done with the Forrest skin and the 
preliminary Avalon one:

http://cvs.apache.org/~sanders/
http://cvs.apache.org/~sanders/avalon/

And finally the latest tigris skin stuff:

http://style.tigris.org/nonav/dev/docs/sampler_inst.html

Not that I'll get in the skin business ;-P

I'll just do the docs, and leave the skin for others. Let's remember 
that it should pass  validator.w3.org and show well in text-only 
browsers like lynx and links.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 12:56:05PM +1100, Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > > The steps involved in doing this include;
> > > * creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests
> > > document DTD
> > > * converting all the docs to this new DTD

Or, to respect Berin's previously stated request, do the conversion on
the fly.  Btw, there's a docbook2document.xsl in Forrest which is an
expanded version of the one Berin wrote.

> > > * updating the build process to actually use forrest
> >
> > Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?
> 
> We can do that. But the docs need to be generated as part of the "dist" ant 
> target. So I figured the best way was to call forrest from docs.xml - is 
> there an alternative ?

There is an "Invoking Forrest from Ant" section at the end of
http://xml.apache.org/forrest/your-project.html

Basically, Forrest provides a build.xml snippet containing:

 - the Forrest targets (site, webapp, war, validate)
 - a script to look for $FORREST_HOME, or ${forrest.home} defined in any
   properties file, including .ant.propeties
 - if Forrest wasn't found, prints a message describing how to install
   Forrest.

> > Can I dare to volunteer?
> 
> That would be fantastic!

:) If you run out of time, pass the baton..


--Jeff

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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Nicola, Peter,

This is good news.  I had some problems with Forrest on my machine last 
month, but with the latest CVS copy it appears to have gone away.  This 
might have been a problem if we went into the Forrest and I was still 
doing releases.

- Paul


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>>I started looking at the dir structure... it's ok if I commit the new
>>docs stuff in ./src/documentation/** ?
> 
> Whatevers easier :)
> 
>>Also, currently the docs are in ./src/documentation/content/xdocs/**,
>>and images in ./src/documentation/resources/images/**.
>>
>>I would like to put all in ./src/documentation/content/** right away and
>>make the necessary changes to Forrest for it as we have already decided
>>to do it; I gather that with Avalon it can be better to start off with
>>the new layout.
> 
> kool. Which kinda makes me think - do we need the intermediate content 
> directory? We could keep it for ease of integration back into other forrest 
> stuff. Or maybe not?

I asked the same thing on the forrest list ;-)

Basically in the ./src/documentation/ dir we can have the sitemap, the 
forrest config file, and directories with additional resources for 
forrest, so it's better to separate things up front and keep the content 
dir.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> I started looking at the dir structure... it's ok if I commit the new
> docs stuff in ./src/documentation/** ?

Whatevers easier :)

> Also, currently the docs are in ./src/documentation/content/xdocs/**,
> and images in ./src/documentation/resources/images/**.
>
> I would like to put all in ./src/documentation/content/** right away and
> make the necessary changes to Forrest for it as we have already decided
> to do it; I gather that with Avalon it can be better to start off with
> the new layout.

kool. Which kinda makes me think - do we need the intermediate content 
directory? We could keep it for ease of integration back into other forrest 
stuff. Or maybe not?

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
*------------------------------------------------*
| The student who is never required to do what   |
|  he cannot do never does what he can do.       |
|                       - John Stuart Mill       |
*------------------------------------------------*


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Peter Donald wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>>>The steps involved in doing this include;
>>>* creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests document
>>>DTD * converting all the docs to this new DTD
>>>* updating the build process to actually use forrest
>>
>>Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?
> 
> 
> We can do that. But the docs need to be generated as part of the "dist" ant 
> target. 

Ah, ok.

> So I figured the best way was to call forrest from docs.xml - is 
> there an alternative ?

I'd do this: require to install Forrest and add the Forrest target to 
the buildfile as an external entity that Jeff has already put in the 
Forrest distro.

>>Can I dare to volunteer?
> 
> That would be fantastic!

:-)

I started looking at the dir structure... it's ok if I commit the new 
docs stuff in ./src/documentation/** ?

Also, currently the docs are in ./src/documentation/content/xdocs/**, 
and images in ./src/documentation/resources/images/**.

I would like to put all in ./src/documentation/content/** right away and 
make the necessary changes to Forrest for it as we have already decided 
to do it; I gather that with Avalon it can be better to start off with 
the new layout.

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > The steps involved in doing this include;
> > * creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests document
> > DTD * converting all the docs to this new DTD
> > * updating the build process to actually use forrest
>
> Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?

We can do that. But the docs need to be generated as part of the "dist" ant 
target. So I figured the best way was to call forrest from docs.xml - is 
there an alternative ?

> Can I dare to volunteer?

That would be fantastic!

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
---------------------------------------------------
"Wise men don't need advice. Fools don't take it." 
                        -Benjamin Franklin 
--------------------------------------------------- 


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Re: Forrestize Phoenix

Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 11:59, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > The steps involved in doing this include;
> > * creating an xslt sheet that converts from anakia to forrests document
> > DTD * converting all the docs to this new DTD
> > * updating the build process to actually use forrest
>
> Can't we simply require Forrest to be installed?

We can do that. But the docs need to be generated as part of the "dist" ant 
target. So I figured the best way was to call forrest from docs.xml - is 
there an alternative ?

> Can I dare to volunteer?

That would be fantastic!

-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald
---------------------------------------------------
"Wise men don't need advice. Fools don't take it." 
                        -Benjamin Franklin 
--------------------------------------------------- 


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