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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2006/12/31 21:19:49 UTC
Default Tapestry page CSS
I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the box.
My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the first
style <link>.
The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or have
no class linkage.
Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Yep, we'll probably pull out the BODY rules, and just leave in the
DIV.tapestry-error rules, etc.
On 1/3/07, RonPiterman <rp...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> I have a small problem with default style.
>
> If I look at a project developement cycle, this will influence, or go
> into the prototyping stage - but I doubt if ever going into production
> stage.
>
> I find there is alot "to know" to make it to a production with tapetsry
> - I really would like to "need to know less" - now I also have "to know"
> how to override styles, primarily, which styles are predefined and
> exactly which rules they use,- ouch!
>
> It might be great for teaching tapestry, which is what howard does, but
> for using it for real life projects, which is what I do, its not a prime
> feature at all...
>
> Cheers,
> Ron
>
>
>
> Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> > I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
> >
> > I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the
> box.
> >
> > My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the
> first
> > style <link>.
> >
> > The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or
> have
> > no class linkage.
> >
> > Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> > elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
> >
> > Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by RonPiterman <rp...@gmx.net>.
I have a small problem with default style.
If I look at a project developement cycle, this will influence, or go
into the prototyping stage - but I doubt if ever going into production
stage.
I find there is alot "to know" to make it to a production with tapetsry
- I really would like to "need to know less" - now I also have "to know"
how to override styles, primarily, which styles are predefined and
exactly which rules they use,- ouch!
It might be great for teaching tapestry, which is what howard does, but
for using it for real life projects, which is what I do, its not a prime
feature at all...
Cheers,
Ron
Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
> I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
>
> I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the box.
>
> My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the first
> style <link>.
>
> The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or have
> no class linkage.
>
> Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
>
> Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
>
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Re: subscribe/unsubscribe and the faulty list serv
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
The answer is at the bottom of the same email you sent out.
On 1/3/07, Scott Venter <sc...@izazi.com> wrote:
> Good day folks.
>
> These addresses do not work.
>
> <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
> Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
>
> <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
> Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
> Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
>
> <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
> Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
>
> More specifically the email sent to me when I subscribed informed me of
> this:
>
> Acknowledgment: I have added the address
> scottventer@izazi.com
>
> I can not unsubscribe from this list using this mail box no matter what I
> try, and as you can see from the list of mail addies that dont work, both
> the user and dev list email addies are listed there. Also the list owners
> addies seem to be invalid.
>
> Have these addresses changed? If so why do the list serv response messages
> not reflect the changes?
>
>
> More importantly how the heck does one unsubscribe??
> Thanks
> Scott
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer
Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com
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subscribe/unsubscribe and the faulty list serv
Posted by Scott Venter <sc...@izazi.com>.
Good day folks.
These addresses do not work.
<ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
<ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
<ta...@jakarta.apache.org>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
More specifically the email sent to me when I subscribed informed me of
this:
Acknowledgment: I have added the address
scottventer@izazi.com
I can not unsubscribe from this list using this mail box no matter what I
try, and as you can see from the list of mail addies that dont work, both
the user and dev list email addies are listed there. Also the list owners
addies seem to be invalid.
Have these addresses changed? If so why do the list serv response messages
not reflect the changes?
More importantly how the heck does one unsubscribe??
Thanks
Scott
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
The drop shadow effect would be cool. There's a dojo behavior thing
somewhere that can do that for you as well. (don't remember where that
is offhand)
There are definitely a few things that would be really nice to have
available in frameworks in general in this area. I was thinking that
having a service like this
http://ajaxian.com/archives/googles-rounded-corner-generator
available as part of the core framework in general would be cool. Drop
shadows could probably be another companion to this one. Those kinds
of things would be invaluable to have. (ie on top of enabling really
fast/easy development also enable really clean/nice looking UI's )
What you are doing sounds like a good direction to go in / be thinking
about either way.
On 1/3/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
I was initially trying for a decent drop shadow look to the
> page, but gave up (you just can't do an effective drop shadow without a
> couple of nested divs).
></snipped>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> TWD Consulting, Inc.
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> Creator, Apache HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
>
--
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer
Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Acknowledged.
The default.css will always be the first stylesheet, so it will always be
overridden by any other stylesheets or inline styles.
I think there's a marketting/psychological value to having Tapestry apps
"pop out" as looking good and a little different, but ultimately, its not so
important. I was initially trying for a decent drop shadow look to the
page, but gave up (you just can't do an effective drop shadow without a
couple of nested divs).
What is important is things like the basic tapestry-error styling, working
correctly (but still easy to override) without needing inline styles or
style attributes.
On 1/2/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This sounds like it would be good in general, but I have some
> misgivings about doing ~too~ much styling. (ie I noticed your body
> specifier )
>
> Dojo does a lot of this on some widgets and it has been disastrous.
> (Tab / combobox are probably the worst offenders )
>
> Of course if it is just for normal things like styling a component
> being used (like error handling ? ) or whatever then it's probably no
> big deal. I'd just be careful with things as overarching as doing a
> body { } definition.
>
> My head is a little in the sand here though, have you seen other
> examples where default css rules have been something people really
> liked in other frameworks/etc ?
>
> Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a good idea ...It just seems like
> the kind of thing that could easily stay in the extreme realm of being
> loved / despised, depending on how it's done.
>
> On 12/31/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
> >
> > I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the
> box.
> >
> > My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the
> first
> > style <link>.
> >
> > The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or
> have
> > no class linkage.
> >
> > Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> > elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
> >
> > Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > TWD Consulting, Inc.
> > Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> > Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> > Creator, Apache HiveMind
> >
> > Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> > and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jesse Kuhnert
> Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer
>
> Open source based consulting work centered around
> dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
This sounds like it would be good in general, but I have some
misgivings about doing ~too~ much styling. (ie I noticed your body
specifier )
Dojo does a lot of this on some widgets and it has been disastrous.
(Tab / combobox are probably the worst offenders )
Of course if it is just for normal things like styling a component
being used (like error handling ? ) or whatever then it's probably no
big deal. I'd just be careful with things as overarching as doing a
body { } definition.
My head is a little in the sand here though, have you seen other
examples where default css rules have been something people really
liked in other frameworks/etc ?
Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a good idea ...It just seems like
the kind of thing that could easily stay in the extreme realm of being
loved / despised, depending on how it's done.
On 12/31/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
>
> I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the box.
>
> My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the first
> style <link>.
>
> The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or have
> no class linkage.
>
> Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
>
> Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> TWD Consulting, Inc.
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> Creator, Apache HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
>
--
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer
Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
The flip side is that we're talking about Yet Another Layer of Abstraction.
On 1/4/07, Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 1/3/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been concerned enough about Dojo bloat that I've been thinking in
> terms
> > of a "toolkit" approach to JavaScript generation that would abstract on
> top
> > of Dojo or Prototype/Scriptaculous. As in, JavaScript support (which
> > includes client-side validaton) will be an add-on module.
>
> HURRAY! ... I realy like the power of a toolkit which i can take part
> from and use whenever i need while dismissing others.
>
> --
> Massimo
> http://meridio.blogspot.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On 1/3/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been concerned enough about Dojo bloat that I've been thinking in terms
> of a "toolkit" approach to JavaScript generation that would abstract on top
> of Dojo or Prototype/Scriptaculous. As in, JavaScript support (which
> includes client-side validaton) will be an add-on module.
HURRAY! ... I realy like the power of a toolkit which i can take part
from and use whenever i need while dismissing others.
--
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
I've been concerned enough about Dojo bloat that I've been thinking in terms
of a "toolkit" approach to JavaScript generation that would abstract on top
of Dojo or Prototype/Scriptaculous. As in, JavaScript support (which
includes client-side validaton) will be an add-on module.
On 1/3/07, Viktor Szathmary <ph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Starter templates such as http://www.mollio.org/ would be nice to
> have, but I think tapestry should err on the side of not being
> bloated, and force too heavy deaults (dojo is quite bloated, imho)..
>
> Viktor
>
>
> On 12/31/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
> >
> > I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the
> box.
> >
> > My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the
> first
> > style <link>.
> >
> > The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or
> have
> > no class linkage.
> >
> > Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> > elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
> >
> > Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > TWD Consulting, Inc.
> > Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> > Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> > Creator, Apache HiveMind
> >
> > Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> > and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Viktor Szathmary <ph...@gmail.com>.
Starter templates such as http://www.mollio.org/ would be nice to
have, but I think tapestry should err on the side of not being
bloated, and force too heavy deaults (dojo is quite bloated, imho)..
Viktor
On 12/31/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
>
> I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the box.
>
> My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the first
> style <link>.
>
> The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or have
> no class linkage.
>
> Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
>
> Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> TWD Consulting, Inc.
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> Creator, Apache HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
>
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Kent Tong <ke...@cpttm.org.mo>.
Kent Tong <kent <at> cpttm.org.mo> writes:
> Howard Lewis Ship <hlship <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I'd be very interested in seeing some documentation about the PageTester
> > from Kent.
>
> Will do.
Done (in the user guide).
--
Author of a book for learning Tapestry (http://www.agileskills2.org/EWDT)
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Kent Tong <ke...@cpttm.org.mo>.
Howard Lewis Ship <hlship <at> gmail.com> writes:
> I'd be very interested in seeing some documentation about the PageTester
> from Kent.
Will do.
--
Kent Tong
Author of a book for learning Tapestry (http://www.agileskills2.org/EWDT)
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Re: Default Tapestry page CSS
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
Have the first version of this in place, you get reasonably nicely formatted
errors (from the built-in Errors component).
I also just added some smarts to TextField, Checkbox and TextArea:
The value parameter is required but does not always have to be bound. If
unbound, Tapestry will bind the value parameter of the component to a
property of the container (the page) that matches the component's id. Thus:
<t:comp type="TextField" id="userName"/>
and not:
<t:comp type="TextField" id="userName" value="userName"/>
Thus we Do Not Repeat Ourselves. Of course, id is optional, but you'll
likely want to specify it so that you can inject it into the page, or at
least, so that it has a reasonable client side name and id (i.e., "userName"
is preferrable on the client side to "textfield").
A similar process is in place for the label. If not bound, it sees if the
container defines a label key in its message catalog, i.e., "userName-label"
and uses that key. If not, it converts the logical name to a user
presentable name ("User Name") and that becomes the label. Or you can bind
it explicitly.
This is fun; I can reflect back on all the trainings I've done, and all the
overwhelmed, dazed students. Newbies just want to know what to do, they
don't want to know the theory. These approaches are "best practices" via
naming conventions (rather than configuration), with the configuration
approach on hand for any extra-ordindary cases.
Basically, we'll be providing more "bang for the buck" for people's first
forays into Tapestry. That's worth a lot!
My game plan for the next week or so:
1) Select, Radio and PasswordField components
2) Invisible instrumentation in templates, and allow templates in the
context
3) More translators and validators, including many missing T4 features
4) Start creating some basic tutorials and more screencasts
The longer term stuff:
- Javascript/Dojo integration
- client-side field validation
- Loop state management inside Forms
- BeanForm type functionality
- Spring/Hibernate integration
- Portlet support (5.1 ?)
I'd be very interested in seeing some documentation about the PageTester
from Kent.
On 12/31/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm stumbling through creating a default Tapestry 5 CSS style sheet.
>
> I'd like all Tapestry pages to have a "decent" simple L&F out of the box.
>
> My goals are to have some simple styles inlcuded automatically as the
> first style <link>.
>
> The styles will either have a "tapestry-" prefix on the CSS class, or have
> no class linkage.
>
> Users will be able to provide overriding stylesheets, or inline <style>
> elements, to avoid the Tapestry default styles.
>
> Any help or suggestions on this are welcome!
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> TWD Consulting, Inc.
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> Creator, Apache HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com