You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> on 2003/04/18 22:56:13 UTC
Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Sorry for the cross post, I wanted this to get heard.
Seems like connector discussions fall by the wayside in the general
tomcat users list, maybe there should be a connectors list where those
who are integrating Webservers and Tomcat can go to get answers to thier
questions? A more topical list with a full featured search interface
would certainly reduce the amount of repeat questions having to do with
this subject matter.
Mostly, I need more documentation as to the Apache httpd.conf directives
and the configuration that can occur in <VirutalHost> in relation to the
jk2 connector. Does someone know where I can find a reference to these?
-Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by John Turner <to...@johnturner.com>.
Sorry...lots of messages to catch up with over the holiday break, I should
have waited to finish the thread.
John
On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:23:57 -0400, <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Quoting John Turner <to...@johnturner.com>:
>
>>
>> I'd say the majority of the daily discussion on tomcat-user list is
>> connector related. I don't know what you mean about falling "by the
>> wayside". If you haven't received a reply, its most likely because
>> nobody has experience with your exact configuration/problem.
>>
>
> yes, perhaps overly "dramatic" of me ;-). Here's my last post...
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-user&m=105068858422646&w=2
>
>
>>
>> The tomcat-user list is quite active, especially on connector-related
>> issues, I would suggest lurking for a day or two before making
>> assumptions.
>>
>
> Yes, I've been a lurking member of tomcat users for over a year now :-)
>
> thanks
> -Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by md...@latte.harvard.edu.
Quoting John Turner <to...@johnturner.com>:
>
> I'd say the majority of the daily discussion on tomcat-user list is
> connector related. I don't know what you mean about falling "by the
> wayside". If you haven't received a reply, its most likely because nobody
> has experience with your exact configuration/problem.
>
yes, perhaps overly "dramatic" of me ;-). Here's my last post...
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-user&m=105068858422646&w=2
>
> The tomcat-user list is quite active, especially on connector-related
> issues, I would suggest lurking for a day or two before making assumptions.
>
Yes, I've been a lurking member of tomcat users for over a year now :-)
thanks
-Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by John Turner <to...@johnturner.com>.
I'd say the majority of the daily discussion on tomcat-user list is
connector related. I don't know what you mean about falling "by the
wayside". If you haven't received a reply, its most likely because nobody
has experience with your exact configuration/problem.
The tomcat-user list is quite active, especially on connector-related
issues, I would suggest lurking for a day or two before making assumptions.
John
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:56:13 -0400, Mark R. Diggory
<md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote:
> Sorry for the cross post, I wanted this to get heard.
>
> Seems like connector discussions fall by the wayside in the general
> tomcat users list, maybe there should be a connectors list where those
> who are integrating Webservers and Tomcat can go to get answers to thier
> questions? A more topical list with a full featured search interface
> would certainly reduce the amount of repeat questions having to do with
> this subject matter.
>
> Mostly, I need more documentation as to the Apache httpd.conf directives
> and the configuration that can occur in <VirutalHost> in relation to the
> jk2 connector. Does someone know where I can find a reference to these?
>
> -Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Responses In-line ...
Tim Funk wrote:
> In-line ...
>
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
>> IMHO, "people trying to do things with a JTC Connectors" really has
>> nothing to do with "tomcat" its self, the majority of the
>> configuration is going on in properties files for each connector and
>> the particular web service being used.
>>
> True
>
>> When it comes to the separate components in Jakarta there are separate
>> lists and separate "sites". It just seems logical that, as there is a
>> site for connectors,
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/jk2/index.html
>>
>> that this should be a separate project than tomcat, have its own links
>> from the jakarta site and its own mailing list. This isn't just to
>> consolidate such information about connectors, but to also have the
>> "right" people listening on the other end who can give "appropriate"
>> responses. I've written very detailed messages to this list and never
>> received a response, this seldom happens on lists that have a narrower
>> scope of interest.
>>
> But also is Jasper, Catalina, the Servlet API (and probably other
> components). Should each of those be their own mailing list? (rhetorical q)
>
I don't believe it is. Tomcat is dependent on Jasper, Catalina and the
Servlet API, Tomcat is not dependent on mod_jk, mod_jk2 or mod_webapp.
In fact these are actually dependent on Apache and a web container that
supports those protocols.
For all extensive purposes you wouldn't force any of the sub-project of
Jakarta not to separate from Tomcat or each other. Connectors is a
logically separate unit of research from everything else that is "Tomcat".
In terms of logical refactorings for comparison: Jelly, Jexl and Maven
all separated from Turbine cleanly. The same strategy can be applied
here I think.
>> In terms of cross posting, making it a separate project that is
>> clearly identified and stating in the tomcat documentation that
>> discussions dealing with JTC should go there would easily minimize
>> cross posting.
>>
> If people would read the docs in the first place, they probably wouldn't
> have a problem. The lack of reading the docs will cause more
> cross-posting than all of us would want.
>
The doc's are rough right now, in some cases outdated, what I suggest is
a strategy to organize and cleanup this area by consolidating it in its
own project "space".
>> "Tomcat Users" is a very high volume list, many posts fall on the
>> wayside because no developers really want to wade through all the
>> non-related emails to get to those that are salient.
>>
> I have to give kudos to John Turner and Yoav Shapira. They answer a lot
> of questions on this list. Some questions fall through the crack. That
> will happen no matter the volume of the list. That is the price of open
> source, its all volunteer and no one is being paid to monitor answer
> these questions. I think jGuru does offer a pay for answer service.
Yes, John Turner and Yoav Shapira do an excellent job, an probably
should be rewarded for their efforts. Promoting JTC to a fully fledged
separate project of its own is one way of doing this isn't it? p.s.
jGuru sucks since they went "pay", I seldom use it unless a page happens
to be found in google.
The volume of a list is critical to its usefulness. Hearing someone
speak sitting in a full class room is always much easier than doing the
same across a crowded stadium.
>
>> Also note that those users configuring JTC are usually Net/Sys Admins
>> setting up production systems, they seldom have the time to do an
>> "exaustive search" of the jakarta user list mailing list archives that
>> would be required to acquire the needed information.
>>
> That is their problem and really part of doing their job.
>
If you want people to use your product, you need to provide adequate
information in a central location for it. You have to respect your
user-base or they will go away, its that simple. If JTC isn't well
documented, people will not have a positive view of it and will not want
to use it.
>> The search interfaces at http://www.mail-archive.com are too weak to
>> capture sorting an filtering appropriately for a "multi-subject list",
>> note that on the mail archive:
>>
>>> What is the search syntax?
>>> Searches span all archived messages in a particular mailing list.
>>
>>
>> > All words entered in the search box are required for a match. Boolean
>> > logic and phrase matching are not supported.
>>
>> Is not capable of providing adequate search capabilities to get
>> through all the no related subjects. The archive doesn't provide a
>> decent interface to filter on body content or words that you do not
>> want in your results. If one can't find what they need in a couple
>> search tries on the site, they probably tend to give up and start
>> posting to the list. Thus leading to lots of repeat questions.
>>
>> Lastly, a group list would provide a mechanism to consolidate often
>> asked questions into an decent FAQ. Which would improve the
>> documentation for the entire JTC site, which really needs to happen.
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>
> From http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/bugreport.html, there is a link
> to multiple sites which archive the discussion lists. Each had their
> pros and cons with respect to searching. It is also "relatively easy" to
> create your own service to archive any of the jakarta-lists.
>
Thank you I was unaware of this listing and will test these sites to see
if there's one I like.
> I have also started a (mediocre imo) faq at
> http://tomcatfaq.sourceforge.net/ In this FAQ, I try not to answer
> questions but link to any resource I have run across which seems of
> value that might solve someone's problem. Most links are to discussion
> threads in this list.
>
> Feel free to give me changes to include.
>
This is great stuff, the kind of stuff one shouldn't have to go offsite
to get about the tool, this is the kinda stuff the community is ending
up producing and publishing because its unavailable on the JTC site.
IMHO, there's a big difference between providing an adequate manual and
then responding rtfm vs. leaving it up to the community to write this
stuff. Saying rtfm in the last case is purely hypocritical.
I say this because I have yet to see a clear list of Apache httpd.conf
"directives" with definitions for either jk or jk2 on the site.
Lastly, If people are really using the jk2 rpm then they are having to
hand edit it in this case because what comes out of the RPM's for
jk2-Apache 1.3 doesn't even work with the configuration:
<IfDefine HAVE_JK2>
LoadModule jk2_module modules/mod_jk2.so
AddModule mod_jk2.c
Include /etc/httpd/conf/mod_jk2.conf
</IfDefine>
A. AddModule is not needed in this case and throws a warning
B. mod_jk2.conf never gets installed by the rpm, this Directive breaks
the startup.
thanks for the open forum. I do respect the work everyone volunteers here.
-Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by Tim Funk <fu...@joedog.org>.
In-line ...
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> IMHO, "people trying to do things with a JTC Connectors" really has
> nothing to do with "tomcat" its self, the majority of the configuration
> is going on in properties files for each connector and the particular
> web service being used.
>
True
> When it comes to the separate components in Jakarta there are separate
> lists and separate "sites". It just seems logical that, as there is a
> site for connectors,
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/jk2/index.html
>
> that this should be a separate project than tomcat, have its own links
> from the jakarta site and its own mailing list. This isn't just to
> consolidate such information about connectors, but to also have the
> "right" people listening on the other end who can give "appropriate"
> responses. I've written very detailed messages to this list and never
> received a response, this seldom happens on lists that have a narrower
> scope of interest.
>
But also is Jasper, Catalina, the Servlet API (and probably other
components). Should each of those be their own mailing list? (rhetorical q)
> In terms of cross posting, making it a separate project that is clearly
> identified and stating in the tomcat documentation that discussions
> dealing with JTC should go there would easily minimize cross posting.
>
If people would read the docs in the first place, they probably wouldn't have
a problem. The lack of reading the docs will cause more cross-posting than
all of us would want.
> "Tomcat Users" is a very high volume list, many posts fall on the
> wayside because no developers really want to wade through all the
> non-related emails to get to those that are salient.
>
I have to give kudos to John Turner and Yoav Shapira. They answer a lot of
questions on this list. Some questions fall through the crack. That will
happen no matter the volume of the list. That is the price of open source,
its all volunteer and no one is being paid to monitor answer these questions.
I think jGuru does offer a pay for answer service.
> Also note that those users configuring JTC are usually Net/Sys Admins
> setting up production systems, they seldom have the time to do an
> "exaustive search" of the jakarta user list mailing list archives that
> would be required to acquire the needed information.
>
That is their problem and really part of doing their job.
> The search interfaces at http://www.mail-archive.com are too weak to
> capture sorting an filtering appropriately for a "multi-subject list",
> note that on the mail archive:
>
>> What is the search syntax?
>> Searches span all archived messages in a particular mailing list.
>
> > All words entered in the search box are required for a match. Boolean
> > logic and phrase matching are not supported.
>
> Is not capable of providing adequate search capabilities to get through
> all the no related subjects. The archive doesn't provide a decent
> interface to filter on body content or words that you do not want in
> your results. If one can't find what they need in a couple search tries
> on the site, they probably tend to give up and start posting to the
> list. Thus leading to lots of repeat questions.
>
> Lastly, a group list would provide a mechanism to consolidate often
> asked questions into an decent FAQ. Which would improve the
> documentation for the entire JTC site, which really needs to happen.
>
> -Mark
>
From http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/bugreport.html, there is a link to
multiple sites which archive the discussion lists. Each had their pros and
cons with respect to searching. It is also "relatively easy" to create your
own service to archive any of the jakarta-lists.
I have also started a (mediocre imo) faq at http://tomcatfaq.sourceforge.net/
In this FAQ, I try not to answer questions but link to any resource I have
run across which seems of value that might solve someone's problem. Most
links are to discussion threads in this list.
Feel free to give me changes to include.
-Tim
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
IMHO, "people trying to do things with a JTC Connectors" really has
nothing to do with "tomcat" its self, the majority of the configuration
is going on in properties files for each connector and the particular
web service being used.
When it comes to the separate components in Jakarta there are separate
lists and separate "sites". It just seems logical that, as there is a
site for connectors,
http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/jk2/index.html
that this should be a separate project than tomcat, have its own links
from the jakarta site and its own mailing list. This isn't just to
consolidate such information about connectors, but to also have the
"right" people listening on the other end who can give "appropriate"
responses. I've written very detailed messages to this list and never
received a response, this seldom happens on lists that have a narrower
scope of interest.
In terms of cross posting, making it a separate project that is clearly
identified and stating in the tomcat documentation that discussions
dealing with JTC should go there would easily minimize cross posting.
"Tomcat Users" is a very high volume list, many posts fall on the
wayside because no developers really want to wade through all the
non-related emails to get to those that are salient.
Also note that those users configuring JTC are usually Net/Sys Admins
setting up production systems, they seldom have the time to do an
"exaustive search" of the jakarta user list mailing list archives that
would be required to acquire the needed information.
The search interfaces at http://www.mail-archive.com are too weak to
capture sorting an filtering appropriately for a "multi-subject list",
note that on the mail archive:
> What is the search syntax?
> Searches span all archived messages in a particular mailing list.
> All words entered in the search box are required for a match. Boolean
> logic and phrase matching are not supported.
Is not capable of providing adequate search capabilities to get through
all the no related subjects. The archive doesn't provide a decent
interface to filter on body content or words that you do not want in
your results. If one can't find what they need in a couple search tries
on the site, they probably tend to give up and start posting to the
list. Thus leading to lots of repeat questions.
Lastly, a group list would provide a mechanism to consolidate often
asked questions into an decent FAQ. Which would improve the
documentation for the entire JTC site, which really needs to happen.
-Mark
Bill Barker wrote:
> It seems to me that connector discussions get the most answers :-). One of
> the main reasons that I use this interface is to avoid reading the repeat
> answers.
>
> Discussions that "fall by the wayside" are usually because the poster has
> said "It's not working, please help", without providing enough details so
> that anyone else could have a clue what the problem is.
>
> Splitting this list has been discussed in the past (on tomcat-dev). It has
> usually been concluded that it would mostly result in cross-posts, causing
> people to get two copies of everything.
>
> Most of the archive sites have decent search facilities (and you can always
> fall back on Google :).
>
>
> "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote in message
> news:3EA0666D.3030704@latte.harvard.edu...
>
>>Sorry for the cross post, I wanted this to get heard.
>>
>>Seems like connector discussions fall by the wayside in the general
>>tomcat users list, maybe there should be a connectors list where those
>>who are integrating Webservers and Tomcat can go to get answers to thier
>>questions? A more topical list with a full featured search interface
>>would certainly reduce the amount of repeat questions having to do with
>>this subject matter.
>>
>>Mostly, I need more documentation as to the Apache httpd.conf directives
>>and the configuration that can occur in <VirutalHost> in relation to the
>>jk2 connector. Does someone know where I can find a reference to these?
>>
>>-Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Re: Maybe there should be a tomcat connectors list?
Posted by Bill Barker <wb...@wilshire.com>.
It seems to me that connector discussions get the most answers :-). One of
the main reasons that I use this interface is to avoid reading the repeat
answers.
Discussions that "fall by the wayside" are usually because the poster has
said "It's not working, please help", without providing enough details so
that anyone else could have a clue what the problem is.
Splitting this list has been discussed in the past (on tomcat-dev). It has
usually been concluded that it would mostly result in cross-posts, causing
people to get two copies of everything.
Most of the archive sites have decent search facilities (and you can always
fall back on Google :).
"Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:3EA0666D.3030704@latte.harvard.edu...
> Sorry for the cross post, I wanted this to get heard.
>
> Seems like connector discussions fall by the wayside in the general
> tomcat users list, maybe there should be a connectors list where those
> who are integrating Webservers and Tomcat can go to get answers to thier
> questions? A more topical list with a full featured search interface
> would certainly reduce the amount of repeat questions having to do with
> this subject matter.
>
> Mostly, I need more documentation as to the Apache httpd.conf directives
> and the configuration that can occur in <VirutalHost> in relation to the
> jk2 connector. Does someone know where I can find a reference to these?
>
> -Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tomcat-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tomcat-user-help@jakarta.apache.org