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Posted to dev@ctakes.apache.org by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu> on 2012/09/12 20:12:43 UTC

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load. Too
bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
amount of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems
like a long time now will pay off for years. I digress.

This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if we
had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not then I
wonder if that can get kicked off too?

Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are
still waiting on our corporate CLA.

Thanks
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
section within General:
http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/

Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile
Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to have
things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We
also seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it
would be a good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means,
migrating content from existing sources.)
Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone
had experience with this help us out in this area...

--Pei

-----Original Message-----
From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just the
list of components. The current site starts with an overview and then
branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
(http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a Getting
Started link and then each of the releases?

When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES already
has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why
create a 3rd documentation location?

Thanks
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb about
each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.

--Pei

-----Original Message-----
From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

+1 for Wiki

Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then link
to the Wiki, right?

-- James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return- 
> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> Staging Preview:
> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> 
> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
documentation to
> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
edit/maintain
> for technical documentation for each of the components...
> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> 
> --Pei

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
Everything you experienced then was either forced in by NCI, like "child pages" sections, or has an alternative, like you can have any order you want. I can tell you about each alternative if you want and others would like to hear.

All web sites are mostly a web of connections, however, I believe that one with a hierarchical structure behind it (even if not shown to the end users) produces a better result. Things don't get missed as often.

Thanks
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-387-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-387-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Masanz, James J.
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:19 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release. 

My only experience with contributing to a Confluence wiki has been the NCI one. 

A few of the things I don't like about the NCI Confluence wiki
  the "Child pages" sections
  that there is a heirachy view

I think of Wikis as more of a web of connections between pages instead of an outline.

Besides not liking having a heirachy of pages in general, I didn't like the way pages were ordered in lists with the most recent pages appearing at the bottom such as:

 cTAKES 1.2.2 Developer Install Instructions  ... (many pages listed in between here) ...
 cTAKES 2.5 Developer Install Instructions  cTAKES 2.6 Component Use Guide  cTAKES 2.6 User Install Instructions  cTAKES 2.6 Developer Install Instructions

I would like to see the pages listed with the most recent release's information listed first.

These are just my preferences.

Regards,
James Masanz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg]
> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Sorry, I was unaware of the conversation that happened in INFRA-5158. 
> That plus the email below brings up some questions for me.
> 
> I've been down this road a number of times. My vote would be to never 
> distribute the documentation with a release. In a world where the 
> cTAKES users must have an Internet connection to obtain cTAKES then 
> they have always shown to use that connection while developing. 
> Meaning they can always get to the documentation when needed. If you 
> ship it in a release you put out copies that you cannot change without 
> more work. As fixes happen in documentation too, you can more easily 
> make sure the next developer does not hit the same documentation issue 
> if you fix the only copy there is - the online one.
> 
> Why put ourselves through yet another migration, Confluence to 
> MoinMoin, if we don't need the export?
> 
> We are in charge of the navigation in Confluence. James, what is it 
> that does not work for you? If you're basing your opinion on the 
> current site, it has had navigational items forced into it by NCI. I 
> like Confluence better than, for example, MediaWiki because it forces 
> the developer to think about the logical structure of the site, allows 
> the users to be in control of navigation (the tree on the left can be 
> on/off), and (except at NCI where it is now) an administrator can 
> change the look (CSS underneath it). Maybe Apache does not allow their CWIKI look to change. Anyone know?
> 
> Admittedly I don't know anything about MoinMoin yet, but has anyone 
> experience with things like the editor? Confluence's is nice. Search? 
> How about managing uploaded files? Just a little digging reveals that 
> underneath MoinMoin is yet another syntax, close but not the same as 
> Confluence.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg]
> On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Its nice to include the documentation in the distribution of the 
> release, but that will likely not work as easily when they disable the 
> export feature of Confluence.
> 
> Jörn
> 
> On 09/14/2012 12:23 AM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but 
> > then closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export 
> > turned off in December will affect us.
> > I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted 
> > wiki to anywhere else.
> > Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone 
> > planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki
> >
> > I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence 
> > pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than 
> > a database but I'm no wiki engine expert.
> >
> > I therefore suggest we go with moin.
> >
> > -- James
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> > ]
> >> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
> > Too
> >> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
> > amount
> >> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems 
> >> like
> > a
> >> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
> >>
> >> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering 
> >> if
> > we
> >> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not 
> >> then
> > I
> >> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
> >>
> >> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we 
> >> are still waiting on our corporate CLA.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
> >> section within General:
> >> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>
> >> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile 
> >> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
> > have
> >> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  
> >> We
> > also
> >> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it 
> >> would
> > be a
> >> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating 
> >> content from existing sources.)
> >> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if 
> >> someone
> > had
> >> experience with this help us out in this area...
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just 
> >> the list of components. The current site starts with an overview 
> >> and then branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES 
> >> Apache site
> >> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
> > Getting
> >> Started link and then each of the releases?
> >>
> >> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
> > already
> >> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. 
> >> Why create a 3rd documentation location?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache
> > .o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
> > about
> >> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
> >> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> +1 for Wiki
> >>
> >> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
> > link
> >> to the Wiki, right?
> >>
> >> -- James
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> >>> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> >>> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> > Pei
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> >>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>>
> >>> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> >>> Staging Preview:
> >>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>>
> >>> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
> >> documentation to
> >>> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
> >> edit/maintain
> >>> for technical documentation for each of the components...
> >>> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> >>>
> >>> --Pei

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Finan, Sean" <Se...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
Value working software above extensive documentation

-----Original Message-----
From: Chen, Pei [mailto:Pei.Chen@childrens.harvard.edu] 
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:21 PM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

We just need to build software that doesn't require a manual to use ;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:06 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Right. There has always been one version of the doc per release online 
> and would continue to be done the same. If you ship it with the 
> release there is still a version of the help for every release. That's 
> true if you contend for a doc fix that could only go into one release 
> and not the next.  For example, you could document a work-around in 
> 2.6, fix the problem in 3.0, and now the 3.0 documentation needs none 
> of the 2.6 wording. So you're still building separate versions when shipped with the releases.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-393-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return- 
> 393-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Britt 
> Fitch
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 3:59 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I also like to have documentation shipped with the code. If 
> documentation is web only then there needs to be multiple versions 
> maintained anyway, otherwise you force everyone to update to have support.
> 
> Britt
> 
> On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> >
> > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the 
> > distribution, because then I can always easily access the 
> > documentation which matches the version I am working with and do not 
> > have to go somewhere to find it.
> >
> > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Chen, Pei" <Pe...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
We just need to build software that doesn't require a manual to use ;)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:06 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Right. There has always been one version of the doc per release online and
> would continue to be done the same. If you ship it with the release there is
> still a version of the help for every release. That's true if you contend for a
> doc fix that could only go into one release and not the next.  For example,
> you could document a work-around in 2.6, fix the problem in 3.0, and now
> the 3.0 documentation needs none of the 2.6 wording. So you're still building
> separate versions when shipped with the releases.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-393-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> 393-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Britt Fitch
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 3:59 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I also like to have documentation shipped with the code. If documentation is
> web only then there needs to be multiple versions maintained anyway,
> otherwise you force everyone to update to have support.
> 
> Britt
> 
> On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> >
> > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the
> > distribution, because then I can always easily access the
> > documentation which matches the version I am working with and do not
> > have to go somewhere to find it.
> >
> > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
Right. There has always been one version of the doc per release online and would continue to be done the same. If you ship it with the release there is still a version of the help for every release. That's true if you contend for a doc fix that could only go into one release and not the next.  For example, you could document a work-around in 2.6, fix the problem in 3.0, and now the 3.0 documentation needs none of the 2.6 wording. So you're still building separate versions when shipped with the releases.

Thanks
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-393-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-393-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Britt Fitch
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 3:59 PM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

I also like to have documentation shipped with the code. If documentation is web only then there needs to be multiple versions maintained anyway, otherwise you force everyone to update to have support. 

Britt

On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
>> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> 
> I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the 
> distribution, because then I can always easily access the 
> documentation which matches the version I am working with and do not 
> have to go somewhere to find it.
> 
> Jörn

Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by Britt Fitch <br...@gmail.com>.
I also like to have documentation shipped with the code. If documentation is web only then there needs to be multiple versions maintained anyway, otherwise you force everyone to update to have support. 

Britt

On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
>> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> 
> I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the distribution,
> because then I can always easily access the documentation which
> matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere
> to find it.
> 
> Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
No buttons or "More Actions" yet. Can you do it for now until my authorization is higher?

Thanks
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-453-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-453-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:10 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Added you in Jira... try now...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:08 AM
> To: 'ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I was only able to comment on the JIRA issue. How does one reopen it?
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-451-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return- 
> 451-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Masanz, 
> James J.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: 'ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> No objection from me for Confluence. Thanks for the investigation!
> The contents for 3.0-incubating will definitely need a lot of updating 
> but I'm hoping for 2.6-incubating it won't need much.
> 
> -- James
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-450-
> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-450-
> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg]
> > On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:26 PM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > No strong objections from me... But I think the contents itself 
> > needs updating though as I think there have been/will be significant 
> > changes to the paths/usage since the ASF move, etc.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:13 PM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the 
> > > cTAKES Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean 
> > > migration from our existing Confluence. Internet search revels 
> > > this is not
> > straight forward.
> > > Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We 
> > > don't need the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.
> > >
> > > ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice, 
> > > there is a lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the 
> > > function... Confluence has version control for every single change 
> > > that is made. You can revert back easily.
> > >
> > > The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS.
> > > Tables don't even exist.
> > >
> > > Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the 
> > > differences noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with 
> > > requesting the ASF Confluence be set up? (Reopen
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only 
> > > need an export from the old and import to the new. I have done 
> > > this with Confluence before as long as I have admin access. Close 
> > > version proximity of Confluence would be good though. cTAKES doc 
> > > is currently in
> > a Confluence 4.0 setup.
> > > This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence 
> > > in discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of 
> > > doc in
> > parallel.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Troy
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ctakes-dev-return-422-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> > > 422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, 
> > > Pei
> > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot 
> > > of the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.
> > > If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or 
> > > maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an 
> > > example (assuming content is there; which is probably more 
> > > important than the delivery mechanism at this point)?
> > > Just throwing out the option...
> > >
> > > My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that 
> > > detailed technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with 
> > > code that I end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a 
> > > simple/general end user guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known 
> > > gotchas, are always
> helpful.
> > > My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in 
> > > this
> > realm...
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > >
> > > > There are always smaller issues coming up when you release
> something.
> > > > If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to 
> > > > just release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is 
> > > > something in your software or the documentation. For me its 
> > > > important that i can easily access the documentation for the 
> > > > software
> > version I am running.
> > > >
> > > > When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet 
> > > > and I have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see 
> > > > how things work there, so in that case I would likely see your 
> > > > documentation
> > update.
> > > >
> > > > Jörn
> > > >
> > > > On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > > > > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the 
> > > > > product you just
> > > > spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been 
> > > > avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The 
> > > > difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Troy
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > > > > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > > >
> > > > > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > > > >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > > > > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the 
> > > > > distribution,
> > > > because then I can always easily access the documentation which 
> > > > matches the version I am working with and do not have to go 
> > > > somewhere
> > > to find it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Chen, Pei" <Pe...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
Added you in Jira... try now...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:08 AM
> To: 'ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I was only able to comment on the JIRA issue. How does one reopen it?
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-451-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> 451-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Masanz,
> James J.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: 'ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> No objection from me for Confluence. Thanks for the investigation!
> The contents for 3.0-incubating will definitely need a lot of updating but I'm
> hoping for 2.6-incubating it won't need much.
> 
> -- James
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-450-
> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-450-
> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg]
> > On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:26 PM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > No strong objections from me... But I think the contents itself needs
> > updating though as I think there have been/will be significant changes
> > to the paths/usage since the ASF move, etc.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:13 PM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the
> > > cTAKES Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean migration
> > > from our existing Confluence. Internet search revels this is not
> > straight forward.
> > > Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We don't
> > > need the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.
> > >
> > > ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice,
> > > there is a lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the
> > > function... Confluence has version control for every single change
> > > that is made. You can revert back easily.
> > >
> > > The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS.
> > > Tables don't even exist.
> > >
> > > Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the
> > > differences noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with
> > > requesting the ASF Confluence be set up? (Reopen
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only
> > > need an export from the old and import to the new. I have done this
> > > with Confluence before as long as I have admin access. Close version
> > > proximity of Confluence would be good though. cTAKES doc is
> > > currently in
> > a Confluence 4.0 setup.
> > > This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence in
> > > discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of doc in
> > parallel.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Troy
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ctakes-dev-return-422-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> > > 422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> > > Pei
> > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot
> > > of the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.
> > > If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or
> > > maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an example
> > > (assuming content is there; which is probably more important than
> > > the delivery mechanism at this point)?
> > > Just throwing out the option...
> > >
> > > My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed
> > > technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that
> > > I end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end
> > > user guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always
> helpful.
> > > My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this
> > realm...
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > >
> > > > There are always smaller issues coming up when you release
> something.
> > > > If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to
> > > > just release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is
> > > > something in your software or the documentation. For me its
> > > > important that i can easily access the documentation for the
> > > > software
> > version I am running.
> > > >
> > > > When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and
> > > > I have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how
> > > > things work there, so in that case I would likely see your
> > > > documentation
> > update.
> > > >
> > > > Jörn
> > > >
> > > > On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > > > > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the
> > > > > product you just
> > > > spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been
> > > > avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The
> > > > difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Troy
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > > > > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > > >
> > > > > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > > > >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > > > > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the
> > > > > distribution,
> > > > because then I can always easily access the documentation which
> > > > matches the version I am working with and do not have to go
> > > > somewhere
> > > to find it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
I was only able to comment on the JIRA issue. How does one reopen it?

Thanks
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-451-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-451-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Masanz, James J.
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:33 PM
To: 'ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

No objection from me for Confluence. Thanks for the investigation!
The contents for 3.0-incubating will definitely need a lot of updating but I'm hoping for 2.6-incubating it won't need much.

-- James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-450-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-450-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg]
> On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:26 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> No strong objections from me... But I think the contents itself needs 
> updating though as I think there have been/will be significant changes 
> to the paths/usage since the ASF move, etc.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:13 PM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the 
> > cTAKES Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean migration 
> > from our existing Confluence. Internet search revels this is not
> straight forward.
> > Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We don't 
> > need the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.
> >
> > ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice, 
> > there is a lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the 
> > function... Confluence has version control for every single change 
> > that is made. You can revert back easily.
> >
> > The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS.
> > Tables don't even exist.
> >
> > Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the 
> > differences noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with 
> > requesting the ASF Confluence be set up? (Reopen
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only 
> > need an export from the old and import to the new. I have done this 
> > with Confluence before as long as I have admin access. Close version 
> > proximity of Confluence would be good though. cTAKES doc is 
> > currently in
> a Confluence 4.0 setup.
> > This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence in 
> > discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of doc in
> parallel.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Troy
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-422-
> > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org 
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return- 
> > 422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, 
> > Pei
> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot 
> > of the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.
> > If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or 
> > maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an example 
> > (assuming content is there; which is probably more important than 
> > the delivery mechanism at this point)?
> > Just throwing out the option...
> >
> > My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed 
> > technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that 
> > I end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end 
> > user guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always helpful.
> > My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this
> realm...
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something.
> > > If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to 
> > > just release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is 
> > > something in your software or the documentation. For me its 
> > > important that i can easily access the documentation for the 
> > > software
> version I am running.
> > >
> > > When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and 
> > > I have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how 
> > > things work there, so in that case I would likely see your 
> > > documentation
> update.
> > >
> > > Jörn
> > >
> > > On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > > > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the 
> > > > product you just
> > > spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been 
> > > avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The 
> > > difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Troy
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > > > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > >
> > > > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > > >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > > > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the 
> > > > distribution,
> > > because then I can always easily access the documentation which 
> > > matches the version I am working with and do not have to go 
> > > somewhere
> > to find it.
> > > >
> > > > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Masanz, James J." <Ma...@mayo.edu>.
No objection from me for Confluence. Thanks for the investigation!
The contents for 3.0-incubating will definitely need a lot of updating but I'm hoping for 2.6-incubating it won't need much.

-- James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-450-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-450-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org]
> On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:26 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> No strong objections from me... But I think the contents itself needs
> updating though as I think there have been/will be significant changes to
> the paths/usage since the ASF move, etc.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:13 PM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the
> > cTAKES Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean migration
> > from our existing Confluence. Internet search revels this is not
> straight forward.
> > Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We don't
> > need the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.
> >
> > ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice,
> > there is a lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the
> > function... Confluence has version control for every single change
> > that is made. You can revert back easily.
> >
> > The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS.
> > Tables don't even exist.
> >
> > Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the
> > differences noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with
> > requesting the ASF Confluence be set up? (Reopen
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only need
> > an export from the old and import to the new. I have done this with
> > Confluence before as long as I have admin access. Close version
> > proximity of Confluence would be good though. cTAKES doc is currently in
> a Confluence 4.0 setup.
> > This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence in
> > discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of doc in
> parallel.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Troy
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-422-
> > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> > 422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot of
> > the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.
> > If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or
> > maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an example
> > (assuming content is there; which is probably more important than the
> > delivery mechanism at this point)?
> > Just throwing out the option...
> >
> > My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed
> > technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that I
> > end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end user
> > guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always helpful.
> > My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this
> realm...
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something.
> > > If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to
> > > just release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is
> > > something in your software or the documentation. For me its
> > > important that i can easily access the documentation for the software
> version I am running.
> > >
> > > When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and I
> > > have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how things
> > > work there, so in that case I would likely see your documentation
> update.
> > >
> > > Jörn
> > >
> > > On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > > > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the
> > > > product you just
> > > spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been
> > > avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The
> > > difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Troy
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > > > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > > >
> > > > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > > >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > > > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the
> > > > distribution,
> > > because then I can always easily access the documentation which
> > > matches the version I am working with and do not have to go
> > > somewhere
> > to find it.
> > > >
> > > > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Chen, Pei" <Pe...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
No strong objections from me... But I think the contents itself needs updating though as I think there have been/will be significant changes to the paths/usage since the ASF move, etc.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 6:13 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the cTAKES
> Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean migration from our
> existing Confluence. Internet search revels this is not straight forward.
> Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We don't need
> the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.
> 
> ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice, there is a
> lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the function... Confluence
> has version control for every single change that is made. You can revert back
> easily.
> 
> The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS. Tables
> don't even exist.
> 
> Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the differences
> noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with requesting the ASF
> Confluence be set up? (Reopen
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only need an
> export from the old and import to the new. I have done this with Confluence
> before as long as I have admin access. Close version proximity of Confluence
> would be good though. cTAKES doc is currently in a Confluence 4.0 setup.
> This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence in
> discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of doc in parallel.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-422-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> 422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot of the
> online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.  If it seems
> reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or maven goal to export
> from the content /site/ directory as an example (assuming content is there;
> which is probably more important than the delivery mechanism at this
> point)?
> Just throwing out the option...
> 
> My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed
> technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that I end
> up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end user guide,
> quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always helpful. My 1/2 cent-
> but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this realm...
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something.
> > If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to just
> > release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is something in
> > your software or the documentation. For me its important that i can
> > easily access the documentation for the software version I am running.
> >
> > When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and I
> > have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how things
> > work there, so in that case I would likely see your documentation update.
> >
> > Jörn
> >
> > On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the product
> > > you just
> > spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been avoided
> > if you were looking at the latest documentation? The difference in
> > "ease of access" is minor, no?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> > Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> > >
> > > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the
> > > distribution,
> > because then I can always easily access the documentation which
> > matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere
> to find it.
> > >
> > > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
I looked at the markdown syntax of the ASF CMS that is where the cTAKES Apache site is built. Using this for doc would mean migration from our existing Confluence. Internet search revels this is not straight forward. Others have issues with broken tables and what was macros. We don't need the macros much but the tables are key to the existing doc.

ASF CMS also has editing/staging/production. While it sounds nice, there is a lag between. Maybe not big but if we don't need the function... Confluence has version control for every single change that is made. You can revert back easily.

The WYSIWYG editor is super limited with markdown syntax ASF CMS. Tables don't even exist.

Since we have a previous Confluence investment and due to the differences noted above, could I suggest/ask that we go ahead with requesting the ASF Confluence be set up? (Reopen https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185) We should only need an export from the old and import to the new. I have done this with Confluence before as long as I have admin access. Close version proximity of Confluence would be good though. cTAKES doc is currently in a Confluence 4.0 setup. This would at least get us started as opposed being on the fence in discussion. We can continue the discussion of ship/no ship of doc in parallel.

Thanks
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-422-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 10:59 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot of the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.  If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an example (assuming content is there; which is probably more important than the delivery mechanism at this point)?
Just throwing out the option...  

My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that I end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end user guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always helpful. My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this realm...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something. 
> If there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to just 
> release again and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is something in 
> your software or the documentation. For me its important that i can 
> easily access the documentation for the software version I am running.
> 
> When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and I 
> have an issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how things 
> work there, so in that case I would likely see your documentation update.
> 
> Jörn
> 
> On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the product 
> > you just
> spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been avoided 
> if you were looking at the latest documentation? The difference in 
> "ease of access" is minor, no?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Troy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the 
> > distribution,
> because then I can always easily access the documentation which 
> matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere to find it.
> >
> > Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Chen, Pei" <Pe...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
Good points... I wonder if we could easily take an export/snapshot of the online .mdtext,html,wiki, etc. version during build/release time.  If it seems reasonable, we could investigate creating a script or maven goal to export from the content /site/ directory as an example (assuming content is there; which is probably more important than the delivery mechanism at this point)?
Just throwing out the option...  

My biggest pet peeve in the past with open software is that detailed technical documentation never seems to be up-to-date with code that I end up just viewing the source anyway.  But a simple/general end user guide, quick start examples, FAQ's/known gotchas, are always helpful. My 1/2 cent- but I'll leave it up to the experts/volunteers in this realm...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jörn Kottmann [mailto:kottmann@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:43 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something. If
> there is a bigger issue the best thing in my experience is to just release again
> and get it fixed. Doesn't matter if it is something in your software or the
> documentation. For me its important that i can easily access the
> documentation for the software version I am running.
> 
> When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and I have an
> issue I usually try out the trunk version and see how things work there, so in
> that case I would likely see your documentation update.
> 
> Jörn
> 
> On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> > Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the product you just
> spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been avoided if
> you were looking at the latest documentation? The difference in "ease of
> access" is minor, no?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Troy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-388-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> >> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> > I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the distribution,
> because then I can always easily access the documentation which matches
> the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere to find it.
> >
> > Jörn

Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com>.
There are always smaller issues coming up when you release something. If 
there is a bigger
issue the best thing in my experience is to just release again and get 
it fixed. Doesn't matter
if it is something in your software or the documentation. For me its 
important that i can easily
access the documentation for the software version I am running.

When I use Open Source software which is not super stable yet and I have 
an issue I usually
try out the trunk version and see how things work there, so in that case 
I would likely see your
documentation update.

Jörn

On 09/14/2012 04:39 PM, Bleeker, Troy C. wrote:
> Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the product you just spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?
>
> Thanks
> Troy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-388-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>
> On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
>> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.
> I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the distribution, because then I can always easily access the documentation which matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere to find it.
>
> Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
Would you still say that if you knew that an issue with the product you just spent 2 hours trying to work-around something could have been avoided if you were looking at the latest documentation? The difference in "ease of access" is minor, no?

Thanks
Troy

-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-388-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-388-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 9:27 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.

I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the distribution, because then I can always easily access the documentation which matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere to find it.

Jörn

Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com>.
On 09/14/2012 04:19 PM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release.

I actually prefer to have the documentation included in the distribution,
because then I can always easily access the documentation which
matches the version I am working with and do not have to go somewhere
to find it.

Jörn

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Masanz, James J." <Ma...@mayo.edu>.
I also prefer to not distribute the documentation with the release. 

My only experience with contributing to a Confluence wiki has been the NCI one. 

A few of the things I don't like about the NCI Confluence wiki
  the "Child pages" sections
  that there is a heirachy view

I think of Wikis as more of a web of connections between pages instead of an outline.

Besides not liking having a heirachy of pages in general, I didn't like the way pages were ordered in lists with the most recent pages appearing at the bottom such as:

 cTAKES 1.2.2 Developer Install Instructions
 ... (many pages listed in between here) ...
 cTAKES 2.5 Developer Install Instructions
 cTAKES 2.6 Component Use Guide
 cTAKES 2.6 User Install Instructions
 cTAKES 2.6 Developer Install Instructions

I would like to see the pages listed with the most recent release's information listed first.

These are just my preferences.

Regards, 
James Masanz

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-386-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org]
> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 8:54 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Sorry, I was unaware of the conversation that happened in INFRA-5158. That
> plus the email below brings up some questions for me.
> 
> I've been down this road a number of times. My vote would be to never
> distribute the documentation with a release. In a world where the cTAKES
> users must have an Internet connection to obtain cTAKES then they have
> always shown to use that connection while developing. Meaning they can
> always get to the documentation when needed. If you ship it in a release
> you put out copies that you cannot change without more work. As fixes
> happen in documentation too, you can more easily make sure the next
> developer does not hit the same documentation issue if you fix the only
> copy there is - the online one.
> 
> Why put ourselves through yet another migration, Confluence to MoinMoin,
> if we don't need the export?
> 
> We are in charge of the navigation in Confluence. James, what is it that
> does not work for you? If you're basing your opinion on the current site,
> it has had navigational items forced into it by NCI. I like Confluence
> better than, for example, MediaWiki because it forces the developer to
> think about the logical structure of the site, allows the users to be in
> control of navigation (the tree on the left can be on/off), and (except at
> NCI where it is now) an administrator can change the look (CSS underneath
> it). Maybe Apache does not allow their CWIKI look to change. Anyone know?
> 
> Admittedly I don't know anything about MoinMoin yet, but has anyone
> experience with things like the editor? Confluence's is nice. Search? How
> about managing uploaded files? Just a little digging reveals that
> underneath MoinMoin is yet another syntax, close but not the same as
> Confluence.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org]
> On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Its nice to include the documentation in the distribution of the release,
> but that will likely not work as easily when they disable the export
> feature of Confluence.
> 
> Jörn
> 
> On 09/14/2012 12:23 AM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> > I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but
> > then closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export
> > turned off in December will affect us.
> > I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted wiki
> > to anywhere else.
> > Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone
> > planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki
> >
> > I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence
> > pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than a
> > database but I'm no wiki engine expert.
> >
> > I therefore suggest we go with moin.
> >
> > -- James
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg
> > ]
> >> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
> > Too
> >> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
> > amount
> >> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems
> >> like
> > a
> >> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
> >>
> >> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if
> > we
> >> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not
> >> then
> > I
> >> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
> >>
> >> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are
> >> still waiting on our corporate CLA.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
> >> section within General:
> >> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>
> >> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile
> >> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
> > have
> >> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We
> > also
> >> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it would
> > be a
> >> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating
> >> content from existing sources.)
> >> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone
> > had
> >> experience with this help us out in this area...
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just
> >> the list of components. The current site starts with an overview and
> >> then branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
> >> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
> > Getting
> >> Started link and then each of the releases?
> >>
> >> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
> > already
> >> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why
> >> create a 3rd documentation location?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Troy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> > rg
> >> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
> > about
> >> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
> >> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
> >>
> >> --Pei
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
> >> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>
> >> +1 for Wiki
> >>
> >> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
> > link
> >> to the Wiki, right?
> >>
> >> -- James
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> >>> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> > [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> >>> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> > Pei
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> >>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >>>
> >>> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> >>> Staging Preview:
> >>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >>>
> >>> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
> >> documentation to
> >>> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
> >> edit/maintain
> >>> for technical documentation for each of the components...
> >>> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> >>>
> >>> --Pei

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Bleeker, Troy C." <Bl...@mayo.edu>.
Sorry, I was unaware of the conversation that happened in INFRA-5158. That plus the email below brings up some questions for me.

I've been down this road a number of times. My vote would be to never distribute the documentation with a release. In a world where the cTAKES users must have an Internet connection to obtain cTAKES then they have always shown to use that connection while developing. Meaning they can always get to the documentation when needed. If you ship it in a release you put out copies that you cannot change without more work. As fixes happen in documentation too, you can more easily make sure the next developer does not hit the same documentation issue if you fix the only copy there is - the online one.

Why put ourselves through yet another migration, Confluence to MoinMoin, if we don't need the export?

We are in charge of the navigation in Confluence. James, what is it that does not work for you? If you're basing your opinion on the current site, it has had navigational items forced into it by NCI. I like Confluence better than, for example, MediaWiki because it forces the developer to think about the logical structure of the site, allows the users to be in control of navigation (the tree on the left can be on/off), and (except at NCI where it is now) an administrator can change the look (CSS underneath it). Maybe Apache does not allow their CWIKI look to change. Anyone know?

Admittedly I don't know anything about MoinMoin yet, but has anyone experience with things like the editor? Confluence's is nice. Search? How about managing uploaded files? Just a little digging reveals that underneath MoinMoin is yet another syntax, close but not the same as Confluence. 

Thanks
Troy
-----Original Message-----
From: ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-385-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Jörn Kottmann
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 AM
To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Its nice to include the documentation in the distribution of the release, but that will likely not work as easily when they disable the export feature of Confluence.

Jörn

On 09/14/2012 12:23 AM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but 
> then closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185
>
> I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export 
> turned off in December will affect us.
> I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted wiki 
> to anywhere else.
> Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone 
> planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki
>
> I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence 
> pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than a 
> database but I'm no wiki engine expert.
>
> I therefore suggest we go with moin.
>
> -- James
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 
>> ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg
> ]
>> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
> Too
>> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
> amount
>> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems 
>> like
> a
>> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
>>
>> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if
> we
>> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not 
>> then
> I
>> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
>>
>> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are 
>> still waiting on our corporate CLA.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Troy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 
>> ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg
>> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
>> section within General:
>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
>>
>> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile 
>> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
> have
>> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We
> also
>> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it would
> be a
>> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating 
>> content from existing sources.)
>> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone
> had
>> experience with this help us out in this area...
>>
>> --Pei
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just 
>> the list of components. The current site starts with an overview and 
>> then branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
>> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
> Getting
>> Started link and then each of the releases?
>>
>> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
> already
>> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why 
>> create a 3rd documentation location?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Troy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 
>> ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.o
> rg
>> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
> about
>> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
>> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
>>
>> --Pei
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> +1 for Wiki
>>
>> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
> link
>> to the Wiki, right?
>>
>> -- James
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
>>> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
>>> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> Pei
>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
>>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>>
>>> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
>>> Staging Preview:
>>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
>>>
>>> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
>> documentation to
>>> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
>> edit/maintain
>>> for technical documentation for each of the components...
>>> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
>>>
>>> --Pei

Re: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by Jörn Kottmann <ko...@gmail.com>.
Its nice to include the documentation in the distribution
of the release, but that will likely not work as easily
when they disable the export feature of Confluence.

Jörn

On 09/14/2012 12:23 AM, Masanz, James J. wrote:
> I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but then
> closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185
>
> I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export
> turned off in December will affect us.
> I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted wiki
> to anywhere else.
> Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone
> planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki
>
> I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence
> pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than a
> database but I'm no wiki engine expert.
>
> I therefore suggest we go with moin.
>
> -- James
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> ]
>> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
> Too
>> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
> amount
>> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems like
> a
>> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
>>
>> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if
> we
>> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not then
> I
>> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
>>
>> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are
>> still waiting on our corporate CLA.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Troy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
>> section within General:
>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
>>
>> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile
>> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
> have
>> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We
> also
>> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it would
> be a
>> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating content
>> from existing sources.)
>> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone
> had
>> experience with this help us out in this area...
>>
>> --Pei
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just the
>> list of components. The current site starts with an overview and then
>> branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
>> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
> Getting
>> Started link and then each of the releases?
>>
>> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
> already
>> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why
>> create a 3rd documentation location?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Troy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>>
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
> about
>> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
>> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
>>
>> --Pei
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>
>> +1 for Wiki
>>
>> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
> link
>> to the Wiki, right?
>>
>> -- James
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
>>> Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
>>> 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> Pei
>>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
>>> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
>>>
>>> Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
>>> Staging Preview:
>>> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
>>>
>>> Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
>> documentation to
>>> supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
>> edit/maintain
>>> for technical documentation for each of the components...
>>> CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
>>>
>>> --Pei

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Masanz, James J." <Ma...@mayo.edu>.
I see there was an INFRA JIRA issue opened for creating a cwiki but then
closed until we decide if we really want to go with Confluence.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-5185

I'm not sure I follow how INFRA-5185's description of having export
turned off in December will affect us. 
I was assuming we would not export anything from an apache-hosted wiki
to anywhere else.
Did I misunderstand the point raised in INFRA-5185 or was someone
planning to export out of an apache-hosted wiki

I'm not a fan of the look of and the navigation through Confluence
pages. And I like the idea of flat files that moin uses rather than a
database but I'm no wiki engine expert.

I therefore suggest we go with moin.

-- James


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-381-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
]
> On Behalf Of Bleeker, Troy C.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 1:13 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load.
Too
> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the
amount
> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems like
a
> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
> 
> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if
we
> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not then
I
> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
> 
> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are
> still waiting on our corporate CLA.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
> section within General:
> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> 
> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile
> Servers, Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to
have
> things in a single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We
also
> seem to have documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it would
be a
> good opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating content
> from existing sources.)
> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone
had
> experience with this help us out in this area...
> 
> --Pei
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just the
> list of components. The current site starts with an overview and then
> branches into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a
Getting
> Started link and then each of the releases?
> 
> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES
already
> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why
> create a 3rd documentation location?
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
>
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb
about
> each on the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
> 
> --Pei
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> +1 for Wiki
> 
> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then
link
> to the Wiki, right?
> 
> -- James
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> > Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
[mailto:ctakes-dev-return-
> > 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
Pei
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> > Staging Preview:
> > http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >
> > Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
> documentation to
> > supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
> edit/maintain
> > for technical documentation for each of the components...
> > CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> >
> > --Pei

RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?

Posted by "Chen, Pei" <Pe...@childrens.harvard.edu>.
Hi Troy,
Sorry for the delayed response; was following up on the svn import item for this weekend.
But yes, I opened a request for a confluence wiki for us; but found out there were some limitation such export and there were suggestions of moin, etc.  Since I'm not familiar with the differences in the wikis, I would defer that to whoever is volunteering to work on it (feel free to reopen/comment as you see fit).

Since we already have Apache CMS for our main page, perhaps we can even try to use that initially (fairly easy to use and create mdtext pages).
There was a comment on cTAKES Jira and it seemed like a good idea to have even fresh look at the current documentation.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 2:13 PM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> I was looking at the cTAKES issues and comments about the SVN load. Too
> bad they seem to be dragging their feet, but if you think about the amount
> of time cTAKES has been under development, waiting for what seems like a
> long time now will pay off for years. I digress.
> 
> This made me think about the documentation again. I was wondering if we
> had placed the request to Apache to create our Confluence? If not then I
> wonder if that can get kicked off too?
> 
> Pei, is that something you would do? I don't think I can since we are still
> waiting on our corporate CLA.
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-249-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-249-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:11 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Good point on the getting started page.  Added a "Getting Started"
> section within General:
> http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> 
> Since Apache provides the infrastructure (SVN, Wiki, Jira, Compile Servers,
> Continuous Integration, etc.), I think it would be nice to have things in a
> single place and managed by a single infrastructure.  We also seem to have
> documentation on SF, Wikipedia, NCI, Mayo wiki; it would be a good
> opportunity to consolidate (Even it just means, migrating content from
> existing sources.)
> Troy:  Do you have your Apache ID created?  Would be great if someone had
> experience with this help us out in this area...
> 
> --Pei
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bleeker, Troy C. [mailto:Bleeker.Troy@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:46 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> When someone first approaches cTAKES it is hard to understand just the list
> of components. The current site starts with an overview and then branches
> into each of the releases. Would the cTAKES Apache site
> (http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/) be better served by a Getting
> Started link and then each of the releases?
> 
> When you say "request an wiki instance" what do you mean? cTAKES already
> has a wiki separate from Apache that is the existing supplement. Why create
> a 3rd documentation location?
> 
> Thanks
> Troy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ctakes-dev-return-245-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> [mailto:ctakes-dev-return-245-
> Bleeker.Troy=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org
> ] On Behalf Of Chen, Pei
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:44 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> Yes... That's what I'm thinking; either that or have a small blurb about each on
> the main CMS site and have a link to the wiki from there.
> But either way, I'll request a wiki site for us to explore with.
> 
> --Pei
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Masanz, James J. [mailto:Masanz.James@mayo.edu]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 11:42 AM
> To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> 
> +1 for Wiki
> 
> Those side nav links  for cTAKES component documentation would then link
> to the Wiki, right?
> 
> -- James
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ctakes-dev-return-243-
> > Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org [mailto:ctakes-dev-
> return-
> > 243-Masanz.James=mayo.edu@incubator.apache.org] On Behalf Of Chen,
> Pei
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 10:19 AM
> > To: ctakes-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Apache Confluence wiki for documentation?
> >
> > Added cTAKES components to the Side Nav for quick reference:
> > Staging Preview:
> > http://ctakes.staging.apache.org/ctakes/
> >
> > Any objections of requesting an wiki instance for technical
> documentation to
> > supplement the main Apache CMS site?  I think it'll be easier to
> edit/maintain
> > for technical documentation for each of the components...
> > CTAKES-7<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CTAKES-7>
> >
> > --Pei