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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net> on 2006/08/26 00:38:56 UTC
apache-modules@c.n -> ASF?
Projectfolk,
Covalent (incidentally, my own employer) has been proud to host this
module developers' community for many years. There are rather frequent
noises around why apache-modules@c.n isn't an @h.a.o list, and why the
modules.apache.org is still hosted by Covalent. I have some thoughts
on the second that I'll start in a second dialog, but this note is just
about the apache-modules developers list.
Covalent would be happy to have @httpd.a.o host this module developer's
dialog. It's very much a users-style list, dumb questions welcomed, but
focused at developer-users, not end users. It would be a disservice to
both communities to try to make them one list. So it won't be abandoned,
it's far to valuable for its users, but if httpd.a.o wants the a new list
modules-dev@httpd.a.o, we would seed that migration with the existing
subscribers and send both pre and post migration announcements to all of
the participants.
Now the considerations; some here exclaim "too many lists!" I'd argue
that this unique list serves a distinct purpose and needs to be preserved
to its given purpose. Some would argue "but it's not *ASF Apache* module
discussion" which is true, this list is for third party and in-house mod
authors to kick around ideas about how to best author a module. But it
speaks to the framework that we created. And tangentially, some would
argue "but it's nice to have an independent forum" - if @httpd.a.o gives
this a place in our mailing list space, we would need to leave it with
its existing autonomy.
I don't see any of these being big issues, and in the time since this
list came into existence, the ASF has made huge strides in mailing list
management and spam control. We believe that the developer community
would be best served by a modules-dev@httpd.a.o list for open discussion
of module development issues, problem solving and best practices.
I'll give the discussion 7 days and start a parallel discussion on the
actual list itself, and call a vote at the end of that. So what say us all?
Bill
Re: apache-modules@c.n -> ASF?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
david reid wrote:
>
> Aim is to replace the website. Moving the mailing list makes sense as well.
Actually there are two lists. apache-modules-announce@ has one purpose, to
publicize changes to that database. Would be cool if that became both a list
and a feed.
If/when the transition of web sites is ready, I'd think that moving that list
to modules-announce@httpd.a.o would make sense, but it's a very different list
than the apache-modules@ dev discussion.
Re: apache-modules@c.n -> ASF?
Posted by david reid <da...@jetnet.co.uk>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Projectfolk,
http://asylum.zones.apache.org/modules/
Doesn't fully work yet, but is a work in progress following a discussion
or two a little while back... Feedback welcome. More interest = more
effort gets applied to it :-)
Aim is to replace the website. Moving the mailing list makes sense as well.
--
david
http://feathercast.org/
Re: apache-modules@c.n -> ASF?
Posted by Mads Toftum <ma...@toftum.dk>.
On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 05:38:56PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Covalent would be happy to have @httpd.a.o host this module developer's
> dialog. It's very much a users-style list, dumb questions welcomed, but
> focused at developer-users, not end users. It would be a disservice to
> both communities to try to make them one list. So it won't be abandoned,
> it's far to valuable for its users, but if httpd.a.o wants the a new list
> modules-dev@httpd.a.o, we would seed that migration with the existing
> subscribers and send both pre and post migration announcements to all of
> the participants.
>
+1 and volunteering to moderate.
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Nick Kew <ni...@webthing.com>.
On Friday 01 September 2006 20:25, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [ ] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
+1 on creating the list
As regards moving people, that shouldn't be done without consent.
But it would probably be fair to make it an opt-out thing, so that
apache-modules subscribers get a message "we're moving, ...
you'll be automatically moved unless you opt out".
--
Nick Kew
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Sander Temme <sc...@apache.org>.
On Sep 1, 2006, at 9:25 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-
> modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer
> support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [ ] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
+1 on adopting the list.
-1 on auto-migrating. We can announce, re-announce, eventually bounce
traffic to the old list address with a message on where the new one
is. People who don't get that clue, we don't want on the new list. (:
S.
--
sctemme@apache.org http://www.temme.net/sander/
PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On 9/1/06, William A. Rowe, Jr. <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
+1
Joshua.
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Graham Leggett <mi...@sharp.fm>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
+1.
Regards,
Graham
--
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Sep 1, 2006, at 12:25 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-
> modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer
> support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
+1 on creating the list, -1 on seeding it with subscribers. Just notify
of the move on the old list. There are privacy/legal issues with moving
a list of addresses from one company to another.
....Roy
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Astrid 'Kess' Stolper <ke...@kess-net.de>.
On Friday 01 September 2006 21:25, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [ ] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
+1 for the list
-1 for seeding the list with addresses
> Also, could add a second moderator to back up Mads (thanks for the offer,
> sir!) if someone is interested in the role.
I would also help moderating.
Kess
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org,
+1
> seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net current subscribers,
-1
Bill
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Jorge Schrauwen <jo...@gmail.com>.
Actually i was looking for that a while back and was suprized it was
at covalent.
So My non couting vote is +1
I'd vote-0 on the moving over...
a mail with details how to resubscribe or something simular sounds better
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Sep 1, 2006, at 3:25 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org,
+1
> seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers,
-1 (we shouldn't just blindly move 'em over)
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by "Philip M. Gollucci" <pg...@p6m7g8.com>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [X] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
>
> I'd actually expect some feedback from the modperl folks since there is some
> overlap here.
I'll be reading the list once its created -- (mod_perl PMC)
>
> Also, could add a second moderator to back up Mads (thanks for the offer, sir!)
> if someone is interested in the role.
Sign me up.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) 323.219.4708
Consultant / http://p6m7g8.net/Resume/resume.shtml
Senior Software Engineer - TicketMaster - http://ticketmaster.com
1024D/A79997FA F357 0FDD 2301 6296 690F 6A47 D55A 7172 A799 97F
"In all that I've done wrong I know I must have done something right to
deserve a hug every morning and butterfly kisses at night."
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<___/
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Brad Nicholes <BN...@novell.com>.
>>> On 9/1/2006 at 1:25 PM, in message <44...@rowe-clan.net>,
"William A.
Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org,
+1
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 01.09.2006, at 21:25, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-
> modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer
> support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [X] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
With a -1 on automatically moving subscribers - either please send
clear instructions on how to move oneself or perhaps, as Nick
suggested, make it an opt-out process with at least two reminders
(though that might be harder to manage/track/... and not really worth
it?).
Cheers,
Erik
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Ruediger Pluem <rp...@apache.org>.
On 09/01/2006 09:25 PM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [ ] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
+1 on the list
-0 on moving the subscribers
Regards
Rüdiger
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Paul Querna <ch...@force-elite.com>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [X] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
[Results] [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
The vote to create...
+1 pquerna, wrowe, slive, fielding, jim, bnicholes, rpluem, niq, pgollucci,
graham, kess, erikabele, sctemme, stoddard
+/-0 none
-1 none
So I'm proceeding to queue up this request and update the page lists.xml.
Moderators who stepped up are mads and pgollucci.
But the vote to seed...
+1 wrowe...
+/-0 rpluem, niq
-1 fielding, jim, kess, erikabele, sctemme, stoddard
definitely doesn't pass, so we will start fresh with an invitation to the old
list participants, and a pointer to the old list archives on MARC for research.
Bill
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by Mads Toftum <ma...@toftum.dk>.
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 03:06:37PM -0500, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> The only thing that I would suggest is we have at least three
> PMC members participating (that old 'oversite' thing). Not that there is
> much to oversee other than tell folks to take the real bugs/design issues
> back to dev@httpd (or dev@apr) and to take end user questions up with the
> module author or users@httpd list.
>
I know that you and Nick follow the list, and I'm pretty sure that other
pmc members do as well (and otherwise maybe me with my member hat on
might do the trick).
vh
Mads Toftum
--
`Darn it, who spiked my coffee with water?!' - lwall
Re: [Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Project Committee Members...
>
> Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
> current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
> (API 'users', essentially.)
>
> [X] +1
> [ ] +/-0
> [ ] -1
I believe its good to have an email based hangout for our module authoring
community. The only thing that I would suggest is we have at least three
PMC members participating (that old 'oversite' thing). Not that there is
much to oversee other than tell folks to take the real bugs/design issues
back to dev@httpd (or dev@apr) and to take end user questions up with the
module author or users@httpd list.
It's nutty to expect modules authors need to follow all the internals here
at dev@httpd, it's a work in progress. Folks are regularly brushed off with
a 'see the code' in response to basic authoring questions. BUT when they
have a productive suggestion, they should be encouraged to bring it -here-,
not debate the API design on modules-dev@ (at least not if they want their
suggestion considered and implemented).
My 2c, it is a perfectly rational fit here at the httpd project.
[Vote] create modules-dev@httpd.apache.org?
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Project Committee Members...
Adopt modules-dev@httpd.apache.org, seeded from apache-modules@covalent.net
current subscribers, for module authors to use for peer developer support?
(API 'users', essentially.)
[ ] +1
[ ] +/-0
[ ] -1
I'd actually expect some feedback from the modperl folks since there is some
overlap here.
Also, could add a second moderator to back up Mads (thanks for the offer, sir!)
if someone is interested in the role.
Please vote.
Re: apache-modules@c.n -> ASF?
Posted by Ruediger Pluem <rp...@apache.org>.
On 08/26/2006 12:38 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>
> Now the considerations; some here exclaim "too many lists!" I'd argue
> that this unique list serves a distinct purpose and needs to be preserved
> to its given purpose. Some would argue "but it's not *ASF Apache* module
> discussion" which is true, this list is for third party and in-house mod
> authors to kick around ideas about how to best author a module. But it
> speaks to the framework that we created. And tangentially, some would
> argue "but it's nice to have an independent forum" - if @httpd.a.o gives
> this a place in our mailing list space, we would need to leave it with
> its existing autonomy.
+1 to modules-dev@httpd.a.o
Regards
Rüdiger