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Posted to users@zeppelin.apache.org by an...@gmail.com,
an...@gmail.com on 2018/09/03 19:03:07 UTC
Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in [Title].zpln instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
Somehow subject was deleted in earlier mail. So here again for adding my thoughts to the proper thread:
Sure, there might exist some kind of naming policy (or let's better call it naming convention) in zeppelin multiuser environments. But as long as there is no way to technically enforce a certain naming convention to turn it into a naming policy (which would be a nice idea BTW), it's IMHO a vague assumption, that there exist policies and users are following these. I'm thinking here of problems that might come up when changing the existing implementation and then deal with migration, because assumptions do not match reality.
My real life scenario here is, that zeppelin can be configured to make notebooks visible only to the owner (and invisible to any other user) by default: ZEPPELIN_NOTEBOOK_PUBLIC=false, which is IMHO a good idea when setting up zeppelin as multiuser environment in larger scenarios. In this case note owners can use any or no naming convention they like when creating and using a note for personal purposes only, because only the owner will see it - also and even if there exists certain naming policies on an global organisation level. A global naming convention must only be followed when users start sharing notes (means: adding at least reader permissions to any other user).
So I think noteId is a must have in the filename.
Andreas
On 2018/08/31 01:46:38, Jongyoul Lee <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a bit different thoughts about the conflicts of the name of a new
> note created. In a multiuser environment, AFAIK, most teams and companies,
> generally, use a prefix for the group policy internally. In my case,
> user/{user_id}/{notebook_name_they_want}.zpln. In this case, naming
> conflicts rarely happen. And it will be stored under a specific folder. If
> someone needed two different same named notes in the same directory, I
> might not be appropriate. WDYT?
>
> JL
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 4:44 AM, andreas.weise@gmail.com <
> andreas.weise@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > another reason for keeping noteId is uniqueness in case of multi-user
> > environments. In that case users have separate zeppelin workspaces, which
> > is something we are using in production: see ZEPPELIN_NOTEBOOK_PUBLIC=false
> > in the doc [1]. In that case users might be very confused when they can not
> > create notebooks with a name that already exists, but they most likely
> > don't see (yet).
> >
> > So I like the proposal {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. where note_name could
> > contains folders, e.g. folder_1/mynote_abcd.zpln. Even though I like
> > {note_name}.{note_id}.zpln (dot in between note_name and note_id) even
> > better :-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Andreas
> >
> >
> > [1] http://zeppelin.apache.org/docs/0.8.0/setup/security/
> > notebook_authorization.html#separate-notebook-workspaces-public-vs-private
> >
> > On 2018/08/18 08:42:44, Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > BTW, I also prefer to use note name as identify of note if the issue I
> > > mentioned before is acceptable for most of users.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>于2018年8月18日周六 下午4:40写道：
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am afraid we can not remove noteId, as noteId is the unique
> > identifier
> > > > of note and is immutable which is used in a lot places, such as
> > paragraph
> > > > share and rest api.
> > > > If we use note name as note id then it may break user's app if note
> > name
> > > > is changed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jongyoul Lee <jo...@gmail.com>于2018年8月18日周六 下午2:33写道：
> > > >
> > > >> Hi, thanks for this kind of discussion.
> > > >>
> > > >> About noteId, How about changing note id to note name? AFAIK, Note id
> > is
> > > >> just an identifier and we can set any value to it.
> > > >>
> > > >> There’re two potential problems. We should be more careful to handle
> > note
> > > >> id as it could have very various type of characters. And Second, in
> > case
> > > >> where someone changes a note name, those who are seeing and updating
> > the
> > > >> same note wouldn’t access that note. We could handle it by using
> > websockets.
> > > >>
> > > >> WDYT?
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 6:14 PM Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> >>> But I’m still not comfortable with note ids in the name of the
> > > >>> notebook itself. Those names would look ugly if you shared your
> > notebooks
> > > >>> on github for example. You don’t see Jupyter notebooks with names
> > like
> > > >>> that. If you have to keep the note ids with the notebooks could you
> > not
> > > >>> simply put the note id at the top of the notebook as Ruslan
> > suggested? Then
> > > >>> you’d only have to read the first line of each notebook.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I know putting note_id in the note file name is not so elegant, but
> > this
> > > >>> is what we have to compromise to keep compatibility as we use noteId
> > to
> > > >>> uniquely identify note right now. And I don't think putting noteId
> > in the
> > > >>> top first line of note would help much. We still have to read note
> > files
> > > >>> which take much more time than just read the file names via file
> > system.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regarding the readability of note file name, I think it won't affect
> > > >>> much. E.g. This is the note book file name like: *My Project/My
> > Spark
> > > >>> Tutorial Note_2A94M5J1Z.zpln*
> > > >>> What user see in notebook menu is still *My Project/My Spark
> > Tutorial* *Note
> > > >>> *which is no difference from what we see now.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> And thanks again for the feedback and comments, I am so glad to see
> > so
> > > >>> many discussion in community.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Partridge, Lucas (GE Aviation) <Lu...@ge.com>于2018年8月14日周二
> > > >>> 下午4:29写道：
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I agree you’re inviting consistency issues if you maintained a
> > separate
> > > >>>> note id-to-note name mapping file.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> But I’m still not comfortable with note ids in the name of the
> > notebook
> > > >>>> itself. Those names would look ugly if you shared your notebooks
> > on github
> > > >>>> for example. You don’t see Jupyter notebooks with names like
> > that. If you
> > > >>>> have to keep the note ids with the notebooks could you not simply
> > put the
> > > >>>> note id at the top of the notebook as Ruslan suggested? Then you’d
> > only
> > > >>>> have to read the first line of each notebook.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Presumably if you copied the notebooks to another Zeppelin server
> > they
> > > >>>> would be restored with the same note ids there too? And hopefully
> > there
> > > >>>> would be no id clash with notebooks already on that server…
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *From:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> *Sent:* 14 August 2018 03:49
> > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *Subject:* EXT: Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in
> > [Title].zpln
> > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks for the discussion.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >>> I'm afraid about non-latin symbols in folder and note name. And
> > > >>>> what about hieroglyphs?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> AFAIK, linux allow all the characters to be file name except `\0`
> > and
> > > >>>> '/'. I can create file name with Chinese character in linux, I
> > guess you
> > > >>>> can use Russian as well.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >>> If I understand correctly, this is being done solely to speed up
> > > >>>> loading list of notebooks? What if a list of notebook names, their
> > ids,
> > > >>>> folder structure, etc can be *cached* in a separate small json
> > file? Or
> > > >>>> perhaps in a small embedded key-value store, like www.mapdb.org
> > would
> > > >>>> do? Just thinking out loud. This would require a way to lazily
> > re-sync the
> > > >>>> cache.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This not only to speed up the loading but also make the system
> > > >>>> architecture easy to maintain. Because for now we have to build the
> > folder
> > > >>>> structure of notes in memory, many code in zeppelin is doing this
> > > >>>> (Personally I don't think we need any code for this function if we
> > could
> > > >>>> get the folder structure from the note file storage system). Use
> > another
> > > >>>> storage to keep the mapping of note name and note id will bring
> > another
> > > >>>> classic problem of distributed system: consistency. How do we make
> > sure the
> > > >>>> consistency between the real note file and this mapping component.
> > If we
> > > >>>> create/rename/remove note, we have to both update the notebook repo
> > and the
> > > >>>> mapping storage. Any bug in code would bring inconsistency issue
> > based on
> > > >>>> my experience.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Ruslan Dautkhanov <da...@gmail.com>于2018年8月14日周二 上午3:58写道：
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks for bringing this up for discussion. My 2 cents below.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I am with Maksim and Felix on concerns with special characters now
> > > >>>> allowed in notebook names, and also concerns with different
> > charsets.
> > > >>>> Russian language, for example, most commonly use iso-8859-5,
> > koi-8r/u,
> > > >>>> windows-1251 charsets etc. This seems like will bring whole new set
> > of
> > > >>>> localization issues.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> If I understand correctly, this is being done solely to speed up
> > > >>>> loading list of notebooks? What if a list of notebook names, their
> > ids,
> > > >>>> folder structure, etc can be *cached* in a separate small json
> > file? Or
> > > >>>> perhaps in a small embedded key-value store, like www.mapdb.org
> > would
> > > >>>> do? Just thinking out loud. This would require a way to lazily
> > re-sync the
> > > >>>> cache.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Another way to speed up json reads is to somehow force "name"
> > attribute
> > > >>>> to be at the top of the json document that's written to disk. Then
> > > >>>> re-implement json files reader to read just header of the file and
> > do a
> > > >>>> partial json parse ( or in the lack of options, grab "name"
> > attribute from
> > > >>>> the json file header by a regex for example).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Back to filenames and charsets, I think issue may be more
> > complicated,
> > > >>>> if you store notebooks on a remote filesystem (nfs/ samba etc), and
> > what if
> > > >>>> remote server and local nfs client have differences in default fs
> > charsets?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Ideally would be if all filesystems would use UTF-8 for example,
> > but I
> > > >>>> am not certain that's a good assumption to make. Also exposing
> > notebook
> > > >>>> names can bring some other issues, like I know some users
> > occasionally add
> > > >>>> trailing/leading spaces etc.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:38 AM Belousov Maksim Eduardovich <
> > > >>>> m.belousov@tinkoff.ru> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The use of Russian and other specific letters in the note name is
> > big
> > > >>>> advantage of Zeppelin. I would not like to give up this
> > functionality.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I support the idea about `zpln` file extension.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The folder structure also sounds good.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'm afraid about non-latin symbols in folder and note name. And what
> > > >>>> about hieroglyphs?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Apache Zeppelin may be the first to use Russian letters in file
> > system
> > > >>>> in our company.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I see a lot of risks to use non-latin symbols and a lot of issues to
> > > >>>> make new folder structure stable.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ------------------------------
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *От:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> *Отправлено:* 13 августа 2018 г. 12:50
> > > >>>> *Кому:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > >>>> *Тема:* Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in [Title].zpln
> > instead
> > > >>>> of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >>> Do we need the note id in the file name at all? What’s wrong
> > with
> > > >>>> just note_name.zpln?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The reason I keep note id is because currently we use noteId to
> > > >>>> identify one note. e.g. we use note id in both websocket api and
> > rest api.
> > > >>>> It is almost impossible to remove noteId for the current
> > architecture. If
> > > >>>> we put note id into file content of note_name.zpln, then we have to
> > read
> > > >>>> the note file every time, then we meet the issues I mentioned above
> > again.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >>> If the file content is json then why not use note_name.json
> > instead
> > > >>>> of .zpln? That would make it easier for editors to know how to
> > > >>>> load/highlight the file contents.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I am not strongly biased on *.zpln. But I think one purpose is to
> > help
> > > >>>> third parties to identify zeppelin note properly. e.g. github can
> > identify
> > > >>>> jupyter notebook (*.ipynb) and render it properly.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >>> Is there any reason for not using *real* folders or directories
> > > >>>> for organising the notebooks rather than embedding the folder
> > hierarchy in
> > > >>>> the names of the notebooks? If someone wants to ‘move’ the
> > notebooks to
> > > >>>> another folder they’d have to manually rename all the
> > files/notebooks at
> > > >>>> present. That’s not very user-friendly.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Actually my proposal is to use real folders. What user see in
> > zeppelin
> > > >>>> note menu is the actual notes folder structure. If they want to
> > move the
> > > >>>> notebooks to another folder, they can change the folder name just
> > like what
> > > >>>> user did in file system.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Partridge, Lucas (GE Aviation) <Lu...@ge.com>于2018年8月13日周一
> > 下午
> > > >>>> 4:43写道：
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hi Jeff,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I have some questions about this proposal (I can’t edit the design
> > doc):
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> 1. Do we need the note id in the file name at all? What’s wrong
> > > >>>> with just note_name.zpln?
> > > >>>> 2. If the file content is json then why not use note_name.json
> > > >>>> instead of .zpln? That would make it easier for editors to know
> > how to
> > > >>>> load/highlight the file contents.
> > > >>>> 3. Is there any reason for not using *real* folders or
> > directories
> > > >>>> for organising the notebooks rather than embedding the folder
> > hierarchy in
> > > >>>> the names of the notebooks? If someone wants to ‘move’ the
> > notebooks to
> > > >>>> another folder they’d have to manually rename all the
> > files/notebooks at
> > > >>>> present. That’s not very user-friendly.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks, Lucas.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *From:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> *Sent:* 13 August 2018 09:06
> > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > >>>> *Cc:* dev <de...@zeppelin.apache.org>
> > > >>>> *Subject:* EXT: Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in
> > [Title].zpln
> > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> In that case, zeppelin should fail to create note.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Felix Cheung <fe...@hotmail.com>于2018年8月13日周一 下午3:47写道：
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Perhaps one concern is users having characters in note name that are
> > > >>>> invalid for file name/file path?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ------------------------------
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> *From:* Mohit Jaggi <mo...@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2018 6:02 PM
> > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > >>>> *Cc:* dev
> > > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in [Title].zpln
> > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> sounds like a good idea!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:34 PM Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Motivation
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The motivation of ZEPPELIN-2619 is to change the notes storage
> > > >>>> structure. Previously we store it using {noteId}/note.json, we’d
> > like to
> > > >>>> change it into {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. There are several
> > reasons for
> > > >>>> this change.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> 1. {noteId}/note.json is not scalable. We put all notes in one
> > root
> > > >>>> folder in flat structure. And when zeppelin server starts, we
> > need to read
> > > >>>> all note.json to get the note file name and build the note
> > folder structure
> > > >>>> (Because we need to get the note name which is stored in
> > note.json to build
> > > >>>> the notebook menu). This would be a nightmare when you have
> > large amounts
> > > >>>> of notes.
> > > >>>> 2. {noteId}/note.json is not maintainable. It is difficult for a
> > > >>>> developer/administrator to find note file based on note name.
> > > >>>> 3. {noteId}/note.json has no folder structure. Currently zeppelin
> > > >>>> have to build the folder structure internally in memory
> > according note name
> > > >>>> which is a big overhead.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> New Approach
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As I mentioned above, I propose to change the note storage
> > structure
> > > >>>> to {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. note_name could contains folders,
> > e.g.
> > > >>>> folder_1/mynote_abcd.zpln
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This kind of note storage structure could bring several benefits.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> 1. We don’t need to load all notes when zeppelin starts. We just
> > > >>>> need to list each folder to get the note name and note_id.
> > > >>>> 2. It is much maintainable so that it is easy to find the note
> > file
> > > >>>> based on note name.
> > > >>>> 3. It has the folder structure already. That can be mapped to the
> > > >>>> note folder structure.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Side Effect
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This approach only works for file system storage, so that means we
> > have
> > > >>>> to drop support for MongoNotebookRepo. I think it is ok because I
> > didn’t
> > > >>>> see any users talk about this in community, so I assume no one is
> > using it.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> This is overall design, welcome any comments and feedback. Thanks.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Here's the google docs, you can also comment it here.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/126egAQmhQOL4ynxJ3AQJQRBBLdW8T
> > ATYcGkDL1DNZoE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >> 이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈
> > > >> http://madeng.net
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈
> http://madeng.net
>
Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in [Title].zpln instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
Posted by Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>.
I also agree to keep noteId, lots of zeppelin api use noteid to identify
note.
Removing it would cause lots of changes.
andreas.weise@gmail.com <an...@gmail.com>于2018年9月4日周二 上午3:03写道：
> Somehow subject was deleted in earlier mail. So here again for adding my
> thoughts to the proper thread:
>
> Sure, there might exist some kind of naming policy (or let's better call
> it naming convention) in zeppelin multiuser environments. But as long as
> there is no way to technically enforce a certain naming convention to turn
> it into a naming policy (which would be a nice idea BTW), it's IMHO a vague
> assumption, that there exist policies and users are following these. I'm
> thinking here of problems that might come up when changing the existing
> implementation and then deal with migration, because assumptions do not
> match reality.
>
> My real life scenario here is, that zeppelin can be configured to make
> notebooks visible only to the owner (and invisible to any other user) by
> default: ZEPPELIN_NOTEBOOK_PUBLIC=false, which is IMHO a good idea when
> setting up zeppelin as multiuser environment in larger scenarios. In this
> case note owners can use any or no naming convention they like when
> creating and using a note for personal purposes only, because only the
> owner will see it - also and even if there exists certain naming policies
> on an global organisation level. A global naming convention must only be
> followed when users start sharing notes (means: adding at least reader
> permissions to any other user).
>
> So I think noteId is a must have in the filename.
>
> Andreas
>
> On 2018/08/31 01:46:38, Jongyoul Lee <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a bit different thoughts about the conflicts of the name of a new
> > note created. In a multiuser environment, AFAIK, most teams and
> companies,
> > generally, use a prefix for the group policy internally. In my case,
> > user/{user_id}/{notebook_name_they_want}.zpln. In this case, naming
> > conflicts rarely happen. And it will be stored under a specific folder.
> If
> > someone needed two different same named notes in the same directory, I
> > might not be appropriate. WDYT?
> >
> > JL
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 4:44 AM, andreas.weise@gmail.com <
> > andreas.weise@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > another reason for keeping noteId is uniqueness in case of multi-user
> > > environments. In that case users have separate zeppelin workspaces,
> which
> > > is something we are using in production: see
> ZEPPELIN_NOTEBOOK_PUBLIC=false
> > > in the doc [1]. In that case users might be very confused when they
> can not
> > > create notebooks with a name that already exists, but they most likely
> > > don't see (yet).
> > >
> > > So I like the proposal {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. where note_name
> could
> > > contains folders, e.g. folder_1/mynote_abcd.zpln. Even though I like
> > > {note_name}.{note_id}.zpln (dot in between note_name and note_id) even
> > > better :-)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Andreas
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] http://zeppelin.apache.org/docs/0.8.0/setup/security/
> > >
> notebook_authorization.html#separate-notebook-workspaces-public-vs-private
> > >
> > > On 2018/08/18 08:42:44, Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > BTW, I also prefer to use note name as identify of note if the issue
> I
> > > > mentioned before is acceptable for most of users.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>于2018年8月18日周六 下午4:40写道：
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am afraid we can not remove noteId, as noteId is the unique
> > > identifier
> > > > > of note and is immutable which is used in a lot places, such as
> > > paragraph
> > > > > share and rest api.
> > > > > If we use note name as note id then it may break user's app if note
> > > name
> > > > > is changed
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jongyoul Lee <jo...@gmail.com>于2018年8月18日周六 下午2:33写道：
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi, thanks for this kind of discussion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> About noteId, How about changing note id to note name? AFAIK,
> Note id
> > > is
> > > > >> just an identifier and we can set any value to it.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> There’re two potential problems. We should be more careful to
> handle
> > > note
> > > > >> id as it could have very various type of characters. And Second,
> in
> > > case
> > > > >> where someone changes a note name, those who are seeing and
> updating
> > > the
> > > > >> same note wouldn’t access that note. We could handle it by using
> > > websockets.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> WDYT?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 6:14 PM Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> >>> But I’m still not comfortable with note ids in the name of
> the
> > > > >>> notebook itself. Those names would look ugly if you shared your
> > > notebooks
> > > > >>> on github for example. You don’t see Jupyter notebooks with
> names
> > > like
> > > > >>> that. If you have to keep the note ids with the notebooks could
> you
> > > not
> > > > >>> simply put the note id at the top of the notebook as Ruslan
> > > suggested? Then
> > > > >>> you’d only have to read the first line of each notebook.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I know putting note_id in the note file name is not so elegant,
> but
> > > this
> > > > >>> is what we have to compromise to keep compatibility as we use
> noteId
> > > to
> > > > >>> uniquely identify note right now. And I don't think putting
> noteId
> > > in the
> > > > >>> top first line of note would help much. We still have to read
> note
> > > files
> > > > >>> which take much more time than just read the file names via file
> > > system.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Regarding the readability of note file name, I think it won't
> affect
> > > > >>> much. E.g. This is the note book file name like: *My Project/My
> > > Spark
> > > > >>> Tutorial Note_2A94M5J1Z.zpln*
> > > > >>> What user see in notebook menu is still *My Project/My Spark
> > > Tutorial* *Note
> > > > >>> *which is no difference from what we see now.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> And thanks again for the feedback and comments, I am so glad to
> see
> > > so
> > > > >>> many discussion in community.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Partridge, Lucas (GE Aviation) <Lucas.Partridge@ge.com
> >于2018年8月14日周二
> > > > >>> 下午4:29写道：
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> I agree you’re inviting consistency issues if you maintained a
> > > separate
> > > > >>>> note id-to-note name mapping file.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> But I’m still not comfortable with note ids in the name of the
> > > notebook
> > > > >>>> itself. Those names would look ugly if you shared your
> notebooks
> > > on github
> > > > >>>> for example. You don’t see Jupyter notebooks with names like
> > > that. If you
> > > > >>>> have to keep the note ids with the notebooks could you not
> simply
> > > put the
> > > > >>>> note id at the top of the notebook as Ruslan suggested? Then
> you’d
> > > only
> > > > >>>> have to read the first line of each notebook.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Presumably if you copied the notebooks to another Zeppelin
> server
> > > they
> > > > >>>> would be restored with the same note ids there too? And
> hopefully
> > > there
> > > > >>>> would be no id clash with notebooks already on that server…
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> *From:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> *Sent:* 14 August 2018 03:49
> > > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> *Subject:* EXT: Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in
> > > [Title].zpln
> > > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thanks for the discussion.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> >>> I'm afraid about non-latin symbols in folder and note name.
> And
> > > > >>>> what about hieroglyphs?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> AFAIK, linux allow all the characters to be file name except
> `\0`
> > > and
> > > > >>>> '/'. I can create file name with Chinese character in linux, I
> > > guess you
> > > > >>>> can use Russian as well.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> >>> If I understand correctly, this is being done solely to
> speed up
> > > > >>>> loading list of notebooks? What if a list of notebook names,
> their
> > > ids,
> > > > >>>> folder structure, etc can be *cached* in a separate small json
> > > file? Or
> > > > >>>> perhaps in a small embedded key-value store, like www.mapdb.org
> > > would
> > > > >>>> do? Just thinking out loud. This would require a way to lazily
> > > re-sync the
> > > > >>>> cache.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This not only to speed up the loading but also make the system
> > > > >>>> architecture easy to maintain. Because for now we have to build
> the
> > > folder
> > > > >>>> structure of notes in memory, many code in zeppelin is doing
> this
> > > > >>>> (Personally I don't think we need any code for this function if
> we
> > > could
> > > > >>>> get the folder structure from the note file storage system). Use
> > > another
> > > > >>>> storage to keep the mapping of note name and note id will bring
> > > another
> > > > >>>> classic problem of distributed system: consistency. How do we
> make
> > > sure the
> > > > >>>> consistency between the real note file and this mapping
> component.
> > > If we
> > > > >>>> create/rename/remove note, we have to both update the notebook
> repo
> > > and the
> > > > >>>> mapping storage. Any bug in code would bring inconsistency issue
> > > based on
> > > > >>>> my experience.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Ruslan Dautkhanov <da...@gmail.com>于2018年8月14日周二 上午3:58写道：
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thanks for bringing this up for discussion. My 2 cents below.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I am with Maksim and Felix on concerns with special characters
> now
> > > > >>>> allowed in notebook names, and also concerns with different
> > > charsets.
> > > > >>>> Russian language, for example, most commonly use iso-8859-5,
> > > koi-8r/u,
> > > > >>>> windows-1251 charsets etc. This seems like will bring whole new
> set
> > > of
> > > > >>>> localization issues.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> If I understand correctly, this is being done solely to speed up
> > > > >>>> loading list of notebooks? What if a list of notebook names,
> their
> > > ids,
> > > > >>>> folder structure, etc can be *cached* in a separate small json
> > > file? Or
> > > > >>>> perhaps in a small embedded key-value store, like www.mapdb.org
> > > would
> > > > >>>> do? Just thinking out loud. This would require a way to lazily
> > > re-sync the
> > > > >>>> cache.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Another way to speed up json reads is to somehow force "name"
> > > attribute
> > > > >>>> to be at the top of the json document that's written to disk.
> Then
> > > > >>>> re-implement json files reader to read just header of the file
> and
> > > do a
> > > > >>>> partial json parse ( or in the lack of options, grab "name"
> > > attribute from
> > > > >>>> the json file header by a regex for example).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Back to filenames and charsets, I think issue may be more
> > > complicated,
> > > > >>>> if you store notebooks on a remote filesystem (nfs/ samba etc),
> and
> > > what if
> > > > >>>> remote server and local nfs client have differences in default
> fs
> > > charsets?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Ideally would be if all filesystems would use UTF-8 for example,
> > > but I
> > > > >>>> am not certain that's a good assumption to make. Also exposing
> > > notebook
> > > > >>>> names can bring some other issues, like I know some users
> > > occasionally add
> > > > >>>> trailing/leading spaces etc.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:38 AM Belousov Maksim Eduardovich <
> > > > >>>> m.belousov@tinkoff.ru> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The use of Russian and other specific letters in the note name
> is
> > > big
> > > > >>>> advantage of Zeppelin. I would not like to give up this
> > > functionality.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I support the idea about `zpln` file extension.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The folder structure also sounds good.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I'm afraid about non-latin symbols in folder and note name. And
> what
> > > > >>>> about hieroglyphs?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Apache Zeppelin may be the first to use Russian letters in file
> > > system
> > > > >>>> in our company.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I see a lot of risks to use non-latin symbols and a lot of
> issues to
> > > > >>>> make new folder structure stable.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> ------------------------------
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> *От:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> *Отправлено:* 13 августа 2018 г. 12:50
> > > > >>>> *Кому:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > > >>>> *Тема:* Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in [Title].zpln
> > > instead
> > > > >>>> of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> >>> Do we need the note id in the file name at all? What’s wrong
> > > with
> > > > >>>> just note_name.zpln?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The reason I keep note id is because currently we use noteId to
> > > > >>>> identify one note. e.g. we use note id in both websocket api and
> > > rest api.
> > > > >>>> It is almost impossible to remove noteId for the current
> > > architecture. If
> > > > >>>> we put note id into file content of note_name.zpln, then we
> have to
> > > read
> > > > >>>> the note file every time, then we meet the issues I mentioned
> above
> > > again.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> >>> If the file content is json then why not use note_name.json
> > > instead
> > > > >>>> of .zpln? That would make it easier for editors to know how to
> > > > >>>> load/highlight the file contents.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I am not strongly biased on *.zpln. But I think one purpose is
> to
> > > help
> > > > >>>> third parties to identify zeppelin note properly. e.g. github
> can
> > > identify
> > > > >>>> jupyter notebook (*.ipynb) and render it properly.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> >>> Is there any reason for not using *real* folders or
> directories
> > > > >>>> for organising the notebooks rather than embedding the folder
> > > hierarchy in
> > > > >>>> the names of the notebooks? If someone wants to ‘move’ the
> > > notebooks to
> > > > >>>> another folder they’d have to manually rename all the
> > > files/notebooks at
> > > > >>>> present. That’s not very user-friendly.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Actually my proposal is to use real folders. What user see in
> > > zeppelin
> > > > >>>> note menu is the actual notes folder structure. If they want to
> > > move the
> > > > >>>> notebooks to another folder, they can change the folder name
> just
> > > like what
> > > > >>>> user did in file system.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Partridge, Lucas (GE Aviation) <Lucas.Partridge@ge.com
> >于2018年8月13日周一
> > > 下午
> > > > >>>> 4:43写道：
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Hi Jeff,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I have some questions about this proposal (I can’t edit the
> design
> > > doc):
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> 1. Do we need the note id in the file name at all? What’s
> wrong
> > > > >>>> with just note_name.zpln?
> > > > >>>> 2. If the file content is json then why not use
> note_name.json
> > > > >>>> instead of .zpln? That would make it easier for editors to
> know
> > > how to
> > > > >>>> load/highlight the file contents.
> > > > >>>> 3. Is there any reason for not using *real* folders or
> > > directories
> > > > >>>> for organising the notebooks rather than embedding the folder
> > > hierarchy in
> > > > >>>> the names of the notebooks? If someone wants to ‘move’ the
> > > notebooks to
> > > > >>>> another folder they’d have to manually rename all the
> > > files/notebooks at
> > > > >>>> present. That’s not very user-friendly.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Thanks, Lucas.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> *From:* Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> *Sent:* 13 August 2018 09:06
> > > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > > >>>> *Cc:* dev <de...@zeppelin.apache.org>
> > > > >>>> *Subject:* EXT: Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in
> > > [Title].zpln
> > > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> In that case, zeppelin should fail to create note.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Felix Cheung <fe...@hotmail.com>于2018年8月13日周一 下午3:47写道：
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Perhaps one concern is users having characters in note name
> that are
> > > > >>>> invalid for file name/file path?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> ------------------------------
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> *From:* Mohit Jaggi <mo...@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2018 6:02 PM
> > > > >>>> *To:* users@zeppelin.apache.org
> > > > >>>> *Cc:* dev
> > > > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [DISCUSS] ZEPPELIN-2619. Save note in
> [Title].zpln
> > > > >>>> instead of [NOTEID]/note.json
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> sounds like a good idea!
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:34 PM Jeff Zhang <zj...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Motivation
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> The motivation of ZEPPELIN-2619 is to change the notes
> storage
> > > > >>>> structure. Previously we store it using {noteId}/note.json, we’d
> > > like to
> > > > >>>> change it into {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. There are several
> > > reasons for
> > > > >>>> this change.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> 1. {noteId}/note.json is not scalable. We put all notes in
> one
> > > root
> > > > >>>> folder in flat structure. And when zeppelin server starts, we
> > > need to read
> > > > >>>> all note.json to get the note file name and build the note
> > > folder structure
> > > > >>>> (Because we need to get the note name which is stored in
> > > note.json to build
> > > > >>>> the notebook menu). This would be a nightmare when you have
> > > large amounts
> > > > >>>> of notes.
> > > > >>>> 2. {noteId}/note.json is not maintainable. It is difficult
> for a
> > > > >>>> developer/administrator to find note file based on note name.
> > > > >>>> 3. {noteId}/note.json has no folder structure. Currently
> zeppelin
> > > > >>>> have to build the folder structure internally in memory
> > > according note name
> > > > >>>> which is a big overhead.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> New Approach
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> As I mentioned above, I propose to change the note storage
> > > structure
> > > > >>>> to {note_name}_{note_id}.zpln. note_name could contains
> folders,
> > > e.g.
> > > > >>>> folder_1/mynote_abcd.zpln
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This kind of note storage structure could bring several
> benefits.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> 1. We don’t need to load all notes when zeppelin starts. We
> just
> > > > >>>> need to list each folder to get the note name and note_id.
> > > > >>>> 2. It is much maintainable so that it is easy to find the
> note
> > > file
> > > > >>>> based on note name.
> > > > >>>> 3. It has the folder structure already. That can be mapped
> to the
> > > > >>>> note folder structure.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Side Effect
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This approach only works for file system storage, so that means
> we
> > > have
> > > > >>>> to drop support for MongoNotebookRepo. I think it is ok because
> I
> > > didn’t
> > > > >>>> see any users talk about this in community, so I assume no one
> is
> > > using it.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> This is overall design, welcome any comments and feedback.
> Thanks.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Here's the google docs, you can also comment it here.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/126egAQmhQOL4ynxJ3AQJQRBBLdW8T
> > > ATYcGkDL1DNZoE/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >> 이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈
> > > > >> http://madeng.net
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 이종열, Jongyoul Lee, 李宗烈
> > http://madeng.net
> >
>