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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by sebb <se...@gmail.com> on 2008/03/01 15:18:45 UTC
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> Comments on last version ..
>
> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
> - Can you rework this; it's simply too recursive. Deconstruct Qpid
> Messaging back to it's purpose/definition. Thanks :)
Still seems recursive to me, see below.
>
> Attached is an updated charter with corrections for these. Please review
>
> Kind regards.
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software related to the Qpid messaging implementation,
Is Qpid an existing independent implementation?
And is the project creating software for it?
I would expect the project to implement (i.e. create and maintain an
implementation of) a protocol or an API or other kind of
specification.
> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the Qpid messaging implementation; a multiple
> language implementation based on the Advanced Messaged
> Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and related technologies such as
> messaging transaction management, federation, security,
> management; and be it further
Still seems circular to me.
See also comments on Qpid above.
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
> the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
> Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
> of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Qpid Project:
>
> * Alan Conway
> * Arnaud Simon
> * Carl Trieloff
> * Gordon Sim
> * John O'Hara
> * Marnie McCormack
> * Martin Ritchie
> * Rafael Schloming
> * Rajith Attapattu
> * Robert Greig
> * Robert Godfrey
None of the mentors seem to be included.
Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
> further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> to encourage open development and increased participation in
> the Qpid Project; and be it further
Is the above paragraph needed?
> RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
> Project encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter
> discharged.
>
>
>
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:23 AM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 12:12 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> > On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
>> > > None of the mentors seem to be included.
>> > > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
>> >
>> > Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
>> > therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
>> >
>> > However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
>> > graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
>> > if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
>>
>> I would go one further - I'd expect at least some of the mentors to be
>> members of the graduated PMC for some time. Without that, it is quite
>> possible that we have a PMC that has no ASF members on it (of course,
>> not all mentors are ASF members). Given that ASF members are the glue
>> that keep the foundation together, having some members on every PMC is
>> important.
>>
>
> And in fact is the one form question that gets asked by the board when
> looking at the resolutions - "Who are the members?".
>
Cliff Schmidt
Paul Fremantle
Yoav Shapira
Scott Deboy
and most recently help from Craig Russell
Paul and Yoav have indicated they will be remaining on the PMC post
graduation.
Carl.
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:23 AM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 12:12 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> > > None of the mentors seem to be included.
> > > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
> >
> > Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
> > therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
> >
> > However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
> > graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
> > if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
>
> I would go one further - I'd expect at least some of the mentors to be
> members of the graduated PMC for some time. Without that, it is quite
> possible that we have a PMC that has no ASF members on it (of course,
> not all mentors are ASF members). Given that ASF members are the glue
> that keep the foundation together, having some members on every PMC is
> important.
And in fact is the one form question that gets asked by the board when
looking at the resolutions - "Who are the members?".
We're uncomfortable with new TLPs that are disjunct from the rest of
the foundation. So when a project lacks people who are known in other
parts of the foundation, then one of the board members volunteers to
go mentor them etc. Much easier if the preceding mentors hang around a
bit longer :)
Hen
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 12:12 +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> > None of the mentors seem to be included.
> > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
>
> Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
> therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
>
> However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
> graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
> if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
I would go one further - I'd expect at least some of the mentors to be
members of the graduated PMC for some time. Without that, it is quite
possible that we have a PMC that has no ASF members on it (of course,
not all mentors are ASF members). Given that ASF members are the glue
that keep the foundation together, having some members on every PMC is
important.
So the role of a mentor after graduation points both ways, still
providing guidance to the PMC, and also, where necessary, representing
(in the non-formal sense) the PMC to the rest of the foundation.
Regards, Upayavira
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
Luciano Resende wrote:
> Have you guys been following the Graduation Guide [1][2], I was
> checking the status page [3] for getting information around QPid and
> it seems outdated.
>
yes, I used the guide and we completed a process to clean up Karma and
updated the status page a few weeks ago. Cliff had worked with us on
most of the items
on the status page early on, thus the dates a while back. We however did
not rush
to graduate so that we could get the apache processes down and benefit
from the great
input we have had from out mentors.
> Also, just out of curiosity, how are you guys doing regarding
> diversity, there was some discussion in the past suggesting that
> podlings should start disclosing members affiliation when entering and
> exiting incubation.
>
There was a thread on this, which if you like I can did up -- problem is
that it might have
been miss-titled so it will take me a bit of digging to find it.
The summary is as follows, we have added quite a large number of
commiters throughout the
project, just prior to graduation our Mentors suggested we use a
community process to clean -up
our Karma before graduating. This has been done and removed some 10+
inactive names off the list, which
brings the committer count to 20. These are employed by multiple
organizations.
It should also be noted that we have received substantial contributions
from 6 other people that are
credited at http://cwiki.apache.org/qpid/people.html
> [1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes-status
>
We have completed all the step at the bottom of the page on:
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/qpid.html
Is it required to edit in comments on the no date items at the bottom of
that page? -- If so we can do so.
Carl.
> [3] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/qpid.html
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:31 AM, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Yoav Shapira wrote:
>> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> less awareness of their activity in both directions. The worse part of
>> >> it is that the lack of awareness will probably reduce the probability of
>> >> any of the PMC members to be nominated for ASF membership...
>> >> perpetuating the disconnect.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ahh, good one! Makes sense.
>> >
>> > Qpid PPMC, assuming no one objects, please add me to your TLP
>> > resolution as a PMC member. If someone objects, let's talk on
>> > qpid-private.
>> >
>> > Yoav
>> >
>>
>> Fantastic, glad to have you. Will add you when we send out an update or
>> the vote.
>>
>> Carl.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
Have you guys been following the Graduation Guide [1][2], I was
checking the status page [3] for getting information around QPid and
it seems outdated.
Also, just out of curiosity, how are you guys doing regarding
diversity, there was some discussion in the past suggesting that
podlings should start disclosing members affiliation when entering and
exiting incubation.
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
[2] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes-status
[3] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/qpid.html
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 6:31 AM, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> Yoav Shapira wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> less awareness of their activity in both directions. The worse part of
> >> it is that the lack of awareness will probably reduce the probability of
> >> any of the PMC members to be nominated for ASF membership...
> >> perpetuating the disconnect.
> >>
> >
> > Ahh, good one! Makes sense.
> >
> > Qpid PPMC, assuming no one objects, please add me to your TLP
> > resolution as a PMC member. If someone objects, let's talk on
> > qpid-private.
> >
> > Yoav
> >
>
> Fantastic, glad to have you. Will add you when we send out an update or
> the vote.
>
> Carl.
>
--
Luciano Resende
Apache Tuscany Committer
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
Yoav Shapira wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> less awareness of their activity in both directions. The worse part of
>> it is that the lack of awareness will probably reduce the probability of
>> any of the PMC members to be nominated for ASF membership...
>> perpetuating the disconnect.
>>
>
> Ahh, good one! Makes sense.
>
> Qpid PPMC, assuming no one objects, please add me to your TLP
> resolution as a PMC member. If someone objects, let's talk on
> qpid-private.
>
> Yoav
>
Fantastic, glad to have you. Will add you when we send out an update or
the vote.
Carl.
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> less awareness of their activity in both directions. The worse part of
> it is that the lack of awareness will probably reduce the probability of
> any of the PMC members to be nominated for ASF membership...
> perpetuating the disconnect.
Ahh, good one! Makes sense.
Qpid PPMC, assuming no one objects, please add me to your TLP
resolution as a PMC member. If someone objects, let's talk on
qpid-private.
Yoav
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Santiago Gala <sa...@gmail.com>.
El lun, 03-03-2008 a las 12:23 +0000, Upayavira escribió:
> On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 07:13 -0500, Yoav Shapira wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> > > On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> > > > None of the mentors seem to be included.
> > > > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
> > >
> > > Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
> > > therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
> > >
> > > However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
> > > graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
> > > if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
> >
> > I don't mind hanging around. I think the Qpid PPMC is well-entrenched
> > in the ASF ways, so I didn't think this was necessary, but if someone
> > sees it as required, I'll hang around the QPID PMC and offer any help
> > needed.
>
> What I see as important is that there is member representation on the
> PMC. If there is sufficient member representation without you, then no
> problem!
>
Exactly. Lack of member representation will cause disconnects. Even if a
non-member PMC chair has access to some private channels, there will be
less awareness of their activity in both directions. The worse part of
it is that the lack of awareness will probably reduce the probability of
any of the PMC members to be nominated for ASF membership...
perpetuating the disconnect.
Regards
Santiago
> Upayavira
>
>
>
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--
Santiago Gala
http://memojo.com/~sgala/blog/
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 07:13 -0500, Yoav Shapira wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> > On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> > > None of the mentors seem to be included.
> > > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
> >
> > Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
> > therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
> >
> > However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
> > graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
> > if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
>
> I don't mind hanging around. I think the Qpid PPMC is well-entrenched
> in the ASF ways, so I didn't think this was necessary, but if someone
> sees it as required, I'll hang around the QPID PMC and offer any help
> needed.
What I see as important is that there is member representation on the
PMC. If there is sufficient member representation without you, then no
problem!
Upayavira
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> > None of the mentors seem to be included.
> > Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
>
> Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
> therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
>
> However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
> graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
> if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
I don't mind hanging around. I think the Qpid PPMC is well-entrenched
in the ASF ways, so I didn't think this was necessary, but if someone
sees it as required, I'll hang around the QPID PMC and offer any help
needed.
Yoav
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 01 March 2008 22:18, sebb wrote:
> None of the mentors seem to be included.
> Perhaps this is normal for graduating podlings?
Often Mentors have no direct involvement in the codebase being produced, and
therefor no vested interested of committership/PMC.
However, I, as a IPMC member, would expect the mentors to "hang around" the
graduated PMC (for TLPs) a while after the graduation just to provide support
if needed, and make sure everything is running smoothly.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Erik Abele <er...@codefaktor.de>.
On 04.03.2008, at 20:27, Carl Trieloff wrote:
> sebb wrote:
>> ...
>>> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
>>> > hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws
>>> intended
>>> > to encourage open development and increased
>>> participation in
>>> > the Qpid Project; and be it further
>>> >
>>> > Is the above paragraph needed?
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
>>> reason why you believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
>>
>> Because of the comment above:
>>
>> "Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't
>> applicable,"
>
> Happy to remove it -- any of our mentors want to comment? Some
> board reports have it
> some do not. For example the latest Synapse resolution does not.
The recent HttpComponents resolution had it and a quick grep in the
previous board minutes shows that 46 out of 68 resolutions since '99
also had it; so I see no problem with keeping it in the Qpid resolution.
Cheers,
Erik
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
sebb wrote:
> On 04/03/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> sebb wrote:
>> > On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> >
>>
>>> Craig L Russell wrote:
>>>
>> >> Comments on last version ..
>> >>
>> >> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
>> >> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
>> >> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
>>
>
> See below.
>
>
>> >> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
>> >>
>> >
>> > -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
>>
>>
>>> Still seems recursive to me, see below.
>>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
>> have fixed
>> the recursion you noted.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
>> > hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
>> > to encourage open development and increased participation in
>> > the Qpid Project; and be it further
>> >
>> > Is the above paragraph needed?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
>> reason why you
>> believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
>>
>>
>
> Because of the comment above:
>
> "Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,"
>
Happy to remove it -- any of our mentors want to comment? Some board
reports have it
some do not. For example the latest Synapse resolution does not.
>
>> Updated resolution:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
>> of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
>> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>>
>
> May need to mention AMQP in the above paragraph.
>
looking at some of the recent resolutions, they separated definition of
the term used
in the first paragraph to the third to avoid recursion... Based on
comments I think it
is cleaner to not try to expand the definition in two places.
>
>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>> Foundation; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>> related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
>>
>
> the distributed messaging => distributed messaging
>
ack
>
>> implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
>>
>
> API's => APIs
>
ack
>
>> subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
>> based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
>>
>
> s/Messaged/Message/
>
ack
>
>> related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
>> security, management); and be it further
>>
>
> How is this "distributed messaging" different from ActiveMQ?
> Is it just because it is based on AMQP?
>
yes, it is based on AMQP, provides native support for clients in
multiple languages and focuses
less on JMS as design center, rather AMQP and provides JMS as a client
API if required.
Much like Ant, Maven and Builder, all build systems but the way they do
it is quite different.
Update attached:
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to distributed messaging; a multiple language
implementation providing daemons and APIs for publish &
subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution
patterns
based on the Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
security, management); and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Qpid Project:
* Alan Conway
* Arnaud Simon
* Carl Trieloff
* Gordon Sim
* John O'Hara
* Marnie McCormack
* Martin Ritchie
* Paul Fremantle
* Rajith Attapattu
* Robert Greig
* Robert Godfrey
* Yoav Shapira
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
further
RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
sebb wrote:
> On 04/03/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> sebb wrote:
>> > On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>> >
>>
>>> Craig L Russell wrote:
>>>
>> >> Comments on last version ..
>> >>
>> >> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
>> >> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
>> >> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
>>
>
> See below.
>
>
>> >> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
>> >>
>> >
>> > -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
>>
>>
>>> Still seems recursive to me, see below.
>>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
>> have fixed
>> the recursion you noted.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
>> > hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
>> > to encourage open development and increased participation in
>> > the Qpid Project; and be it further
>> >
>> > Is the above paragraph needed?
>> >
>>
>>
>> Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
>> reason why you
>> believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
>>
>>
>
> Because of the comment above:
>
> "Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,"
>
Happy to remove it -- any of our mentors want to comment? Some board
reports have it
some do not. For example the latest Synapse resolution does not.
>
>> Updated resolution:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
>> of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
>> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>>
>
> May need to mention AMQP in the above paragraph.
>
looking at some of the recent resolutions, they separated definition of
the term used
in the first paragraph to the third to avoid recursion... Based on
comments I think it
is cleaner to not try to expand the definition in two places.
>
>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>> Foundation; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>> related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
>>
>
> the distributed messaging => distributed messaging
>
ack
>
>> implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
>>
>
> API's => APIs
>
ack
>
>> subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
>> based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
>>
>
> s/Messaged/Message/
>
ack
>
>> related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
>> security, management); and be it further
>>
>
> How is this "distributed messaging" different from ActiveMQ?
> Is it just because it is based on AMQP?
>
yes, it is based on AMQP, provides native support for clients in
multiple languages and focuses
less on JMS as design center, rather AMQP and provides JMS as a client
API if required.
Much like Ant, Maven and Builder, all build systems but the way they do
it is quite different.
Update attached:
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to distributed messaging; a multiple language
implementation providing daemons and APIs for publish &
subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution
patterns
based on the Advanced Message Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
security, management); and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Qpid Project:
* Alan Conway
* Arnaud Simon
* Carl Trieloff
* Gordon Sim
* John O'Hara
* Marnie McCormack
* Martin Ritchie
* Paul Fremantle
* Rajith Attapattu
* Robert Greig
* Robert Godfrey
* Yoav Shapira
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
further
RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 04/03/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> sebb wrote:
> > On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Craig L Russell wrote:
> >> Comments on last version ..
> >>
> >> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
> >> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
> >> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
See below.
> >> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
> >>
> >
> > -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
>
> > Still seems recursive to me, see below.
> >
> >
>
>
> Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
> have fixed
> the recursion you noted.
>
>
>
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> > hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> > to encourage open development and increased participation in
> > the Qpid Project; and be it further
> >
> > Is the above paragraph needed?
> >
>
>
> Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
> reason why you
> believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
>
Because of the comment above:
"Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,"
> Updated resolution:
>
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
> of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
> for distribution at no charge to the public.
May need to mention AMQP in the above paragraph.
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
the distributed messaging => distributed messaging
> implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
API's => APIs
> subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
> based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
s/Messaged/Message/
> related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
> security, management); and be it further
How is this "distributed messaging" different from ActiveMQ?
Is it just because it is based on AMQP?
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
> the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
> Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
> of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Qpid Project:
>
> * Alan Conway
> * Arnaud Simon
> * Carl Trieloff
> * Gordon Sim
> * John O'Hara
> * Marnie McCormack
> * Martin Ritchie
> * Paul Fremantle
> * Rafael Schloming
> * Rajith Attapattu
> * Robert Greig
> * Robert Godfrey
> * Yoav Shapira
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
> further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> to encourage open development and increased participation in
> the Qpid Project; and be it further
>
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
>
> encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 04/03/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> sebb wrote:
> > On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > Craig L Russell wrote:
> >> Comments on last version ..
> >>
> >> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
> >> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
> >> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
See below.
> >> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
> >>
> >
> > -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
>
> > Still seems recursive to me, see below.
> >
> >
>
>
> Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
> have fixed
> the recursion you noted.
>
>
>
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> > hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> > to encourage open development and increased participation in
> > the Qpid Project; and be it further
> >
> > Is the above paragraph needed?
> >
>
>
> Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
> reason why you
> believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
>
Because of the comment above:
"Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,"
> Updated resolution:
>
>
>
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
> of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
> for distribution at no charge to the public.
May need to mention AMQP in the above paragraph.
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
the distributed messaging => distributed messaging
> implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
API's => APIs
> subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
> based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
s/Messaged/Message/
> related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
> security, management); and be it further
How is this "distributed messaging" different from ActiveMQ?
Is it just because it is based on AMQP?
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
> the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
> Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
> management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
> of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Qpid Project:
>
> * Alan Conway
> * Arnaud Simon
> * Carl Trieloff
> * Gordon Sim
> * John O'Hara
> * Marnie McCormack
> * Martin Ritchie
> * Paul Fremantle
> * Rafael Schloming
> * Rajith Attapattu
> * Robert Greig
> * Robert Godfrey
> * Yoav Shapira
>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
> further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> to encourage open development and increased participation in
> the Qpid Project; and be it further
>
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
>
> encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
sebb wrote:
> On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Comments on last version ..
>>
>> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
>> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
>> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
>> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
>>
>
> -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
> Still seems recursive to me, see below.
>
>
Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
have fixed
the recursion you noted.
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> to encourage open development and increased participation in
> the Qpid Project; and be it further
>
> Is the above paragraph needed?
>
Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
reason why you
believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
Updated resolution:
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
security, management); and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Qpid Project:
* Alan Conway
* Arnaud Simon
* Carl Trieloff
* Gordon Sim
* John O'Hara
* Marnie McCormack
* Martin Ritchie
* Paul Fremantle
* Rafael Schloming
* Rajith Attapattu
* Robert Greig
* Robert Godfrey
* Yoav Shapira
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
to encourage open development and increased participation in
the Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.
Re: Graduation resolution feedback - Qpid as TLP
Posted by Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com>.
sebb wrote:
> On 29/02/2008, Carl Trieloff <cc...@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Comments on last version ..
>>
>> - It looks like you are using a non-applicable template for the board
>> resolution. Take a look at other incubator graduation resolutions.
>> - Specifically, the paragraph on establishing bylaws isn't applicable,
>> and the incubator needs to be discharged of responsibility.
>>
>
> -See below - only half of the above seems to have been addressed.
> Still seems recursive to me, see below.
>
>
Take a look below at the update and see what you think... I believe I
have fixed
the recursion you noted.
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
> hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
> to encourage open development and increased participation in
> the Qpid Project; and be it further
>
> Is the above paragraph needed?
>
Checking with our mentors it seems that it is needed. any particular
reason why you
believe otherwise or just asking to be sure?
Updated resolution:
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of open-source software related to distributed messaging,
for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Qpid Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Qpid Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to the distributed messaging; a multiple language
implementation providing daemons and API's for publish &
subscribe, eventing and a wide range of message distribution patterns
based on the Advanced Messaged Queuing Protocol (AMQP) and
related technologies such as (transaction management, federation,
security, management); and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Qpid" be and
hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at
the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the
Apache Qpid Project, and to have primary responsibility for
management of the projects within the scope of responsibility
of the Apache Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Qpid Project:
* Alan Conway
* Arnaud Simon
* Carl Trieloff
* Gordon Sim
* John O'Hara
* Marnie McCormack
* Martin Ritchie
* Paul Fremantle
* Rafael Schloming
* Rajith Attapattu
* Robert Greig
* Robert Godfrey
* Yoav Shapira
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
Carl Trieloff be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Qpid, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it
further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Qpid Project be and
hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
to encourage open development and increased participation in
the Qpid Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibility pertaining to the Qpid
encumbered upon the Apache Incubator be hereafter discharged.