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Posted to dev@clerezza.apache.org by Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> on 2011/11/04 14:07:37 UTC
Re: Newbie Question
Reto,
Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and "cloud".
As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When the
knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
"cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much worse!
Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed. As
data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will align
with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can, but
I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
Thoughts?
Thank you!
Sam
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
<me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> Good you came across clerezza.
>
> You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> the social web.
>
> There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
>
> - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> to try again)
> - Have an "app-store" on the website
> - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> version (see
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> )
>
> Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
>
> Cheers,
> Reto
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And oddly
> > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've zealously
> > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> >
> > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> someone
> > on this list who can provide some history and background for Clerezza?
> Who
> > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> >
> > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Sam
> >
>
--
Sam Chance
443-694-5293 (m)
Re: Newbie Question
Posted by Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com>.
Reto,
Thank you for your reply! I found your last comment very interesting!
"...instead of downloading a graph using a sparql endpoint one can upload a
bundle
that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data..."
This, to me, hints toward the Semantic Web's original vision, wherein
intelligent [software] agents interact with semantic data to accomplish
tasks. Instead of moving the data around, move the functions (software)
around. It seems like security becomes the main concern, and the inhibitor.
I don't know.
Thank you!
Sam
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
<me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> Distributing Clerezza in a distributed OSGi einvironment should be
> possible, but it would only bring significant benefit if, as you suggest,
> it would be aligned with query functionality.
>
> A possibly distinct field to improve distributing computing over the
> network would be access as (m)graphs of remote sparql endpoint, the most
> difficult challenge I think would be to support caching.
>
> Yet another distributed facility might base on code based bundle
> permissions which is (at least somehow) supported in clerezza. So instead
> of downloading a graph of using a sparql endpoint one can upload a bundle
> that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data.
>
> Reto
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Reto,
> >
> > Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
> >
> > I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
> > distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and
> "cloud".
> > As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When
> the
> > knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
> > unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
> > "cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much
> worse!
> > Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
> > systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed.
> As
> > data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
> > distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
> >
> > So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will
> align
> > with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
> > parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
> >
> > I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can,
> but
> > I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
> > focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Sam
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> > <me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Sam,
> > >
> > > Good you came across clerezza.
> > >
> > > You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> > > (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> > > some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> > > which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> > > in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> > > not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> > > platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> > > the social web.
> > >
> > > There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> > > committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
> > >
> > > - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> > > to try again)
> > > - Have an "app-store" on the website
> > > - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> > > - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> > > with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> > > version (see
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > )
> > >
> > > Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> > > there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Reto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > > > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And
> > oddly
> > > > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've
> zealously
> > > > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> > > >
> > > > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > > > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> > > someone
> > > > on this list who can provide some history and background for
> Clerezza?
> > > Who
> > > > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> > > >
> > > > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> > > >
> > > > Thank you!
> > > > Sam
>
Re: Newbie Question
Posted by Reto Bachmann-Gmür <me...@farewellutopia.com>.
Hi Sam,
Distributing Clerezza in a distributed OSGi einvironment should be
possible, but it would only bring significant benefit if, as you suggest,
it would be aligned with query functionality.
A possibly distinct field to improve distributing computing over the
network would be access as (m)graphs of remote sparql endpoint, the most
difficult challenge I think would be to support caching.
Yet another distributed facility might base on code based bundle
permissions which is (at least somehow) supported in clerezza. So instead
of downloading a graph of using a sparql endpoint one can upload a bundle
that (with the rights of the uploading user) aggregates the data.
Reto
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Reto,
>
> Sorry for taking so *long* to reply!
>
> I do think there is a good intersection between Semantic Web and
> distributed OSGi. Two reasons that come to mind include scale and "cloud".
> As you know OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying is an expensive function. When the
> knowledgebase grows to any substantial size, performance becomes
> unacceptable. Although scale has improved, it remains a challenge. As for
> "cloud", I thought "SOA" was an overloaded term, but "cloud" is much worse!
> Nevertheless, the way we design, build, deploy and maintain software
> systems - I believe - will become increasingly modular and distributed. As
> data is distributed in Hadoop, software modules will be similarly
> distributed. I could be wrong! :-)
>
> So my "hypothesis" is that a distributed OSGi services "fabric" will align
> with the "modular and distributed" "cloud" concept; and such a fabric can
> parallelize OWL/RDFS reasoning/querying functions.
>
> I'm wondering if Clerezza can built in such a fashion. I'm sure it can, but
> I also know it's easier said than done! In the short term, I think I'll
> focus on learning and using Clerezza - as is. :-)
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thank you!
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> <me...@farewellutopia.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi Sam,
> >
> > Good you came across clerezza.
> >
> > You've probably see the original Clerezza proposal
> > (http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal) which gives you
> > some of the history. The original code has been donated by Trialox
> > which uses clerezza as the foundation for their CMS system, which is
> > in use e.g. for http://www.pandaclub.ch/. By now most contributors are
> > not associated to Trialox. Clerezza is not meant to be a CMS but a
> > platform to make it easy to build web-applcation for the semantic and
> > the social web.
> >
> > There is no official roadmap of the future development and different
> > committers will set different priorities. From my point of view:
> >
> > - Release clerezza (Our first release attempt have failed and its time
> > to try again)
> > - Have an "app-store" on the website
> > - Better integrate the documentation and tutorials
> > - As a longer term vision we've discussed a versioning triple stores
> > with a transaction oriented api where a transaction yields to a new
> > version (see
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-clerezza-dev/201009.mbox/%3CAANLkTiknhwnesimUKj+2t6bXzyX2NXPZCUt2hBKzigdr@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > )
> >
> > Do you think distributed OSGi could be integrated in Clerezza? Is
> > there a connection between SemWeb and distributed OSGi?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Reto
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Sam Chance <sg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I recently (accidentally) discovered Clerezza. I've been involved in
> > > Semantic Web technologies and the "community" since about 2001. And
> oddly
> > > enough, I've been almost as enamored with OSGi! In fact, I've zealously
> > > promoted the Semantic Web and distributed OSGi.
> > >
> > > Suffice it to say, when I found Clerezza I was pleasantly surprised.
> > > However, like a things worthwhile, I have a lot to learn. Is there
> > someone
> > > on this list who can provide some history and background for Clerezza?
> > Who
> > > is behind it? What is the roadmap?
> > >
> > > Any insight and details are appreciated!
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > > Sam
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sam Chance
> 443-694-5293 (m)
>