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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org> on 2001/10/11 23:07:16 UTC
Re: Tomcat extensions for ASPs
Hi,
The general rule of thumb for this sort of thing is that the project must
have at least 3 developers involved and at least one "champion" from Apache
to kickstart it. The reason for this is is that we need some way to
guarenteee that the project will be a success and that there will still be
developers involved with in a years or twos time. So you need to include this
sort of information in your proposal.
It would also be good to contrast it with existing Apache projects. ie How
does it compare to something like turbine?
On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:39, Paul Ilechko wrote:
> Forwarded as per Peter Donald's suggestion ..
>
> see attachment. (Changed to plain text)
>
> _______________________________
> Paul Ilechko
> Principal Architect
> Torry Harris Business Solutions
> paul_ilechko@thbs.com
> www.thbs.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Donald [mailto:donaldp@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:18 AM
> > To: pmc@jakarta.apache.org; Paul Ilechko
> > Cc: coar@Apache.Org
> > Subject: Re: FW: FW: [Fwd: Tomcat extensions for ASPs]
> >
> > On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:13, Paul Ilechko wrote:
> > > Please find attached a proposal to Open Source a product that we have
> > > developed, called ASPizer.
> >
> > Proposals are done on general@jakarta list now. You should also
> > send it in
> > plain text (or at worst HTML) because there are those who can't read
> > this.
> >
> > > Paul.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Apache Software Foundation [mailto:human-response@Apache.Org]
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 8:37 AM
> > > > To: Paul Ilechko
> > > > Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Tomcat extensions for ASPs]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > * On 2001-09-27 at 09:48,
> > > >
> > > > Paul Ilechko <Pa...@thbs.com> excited the electrons to say:
> > > > > Please let me know how we should proceed on this,
> > > >
> > > > The best path would be to send a proposal to pmc@Jakarta.Apache.Org.
> > > > Cc me, and let me know if no-one gets back to you within a week.
> > > > --
> > > > #ken P-)}
> > > >
> > > > Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
> > > > Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
> > > >
> > > > "All right everyone! Step away from the glowing hamburger!"
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Pete
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > "Don't play dumb with me.
> > I happen to be an expert at that"
> > - Maxwell Smart
> > ----------------------------------
--
Cheers,
Pete
----------------------------------
"Don't play dumb with me.
I happen to be an expert at that"
- Maxwell Smart
----------------------------------
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Re: ASPizer
Posted by Peter Donald <do...@apache.org>.
Hi,
had a browse through all the documentation and it seems like an interesting
and useful product. There is parts where it clearly overlaps existing
products at Apache but there is other parts that look good.
They have a BuisnessObjects layer which is similar in role to torque (from
turbine) - basically a cut down lightweight version of EJBs,
They also have a workflow layer which sounds similar to the workflow
component in commons. However it looks like it is more fully matured and that
the view / transitions / model are completely separated from controller.
Looks interesting anyways.
It is difficult to asses the rest without having a look at the code but the
rest of the framework looks monolithic to a degree. I am not sure how easy it
would be to incorporate bits into a struts/turbine or other style setup but
it is interesting.
--
Cheers,
Pete
--------------------------------------------------
Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
--------------------------------------------------
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RE: ASPizer
Posted by Paulo Gaspar <pa...@krankikom.de>.
Don't freak out Paul. Jon is just being his usual self.
OTOH, he is the only Apache member I am aware of with this kind
of "self".
Have fun,
Paulo
http://www.krankikom.de
http://www.ruhronline.de
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Ilechko [mailto:Paul_Ilechko@thbs.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 8:39 PM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Subject: RE: ASPizer
>
>
> Tbanks for the constructive criticism, Jon.
>
> Paul.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jon Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:30 PM
> > To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> > Cc: Ranjit Mathew; Arnab Ghosh
> > Subject: Re: ASPizer
> >
> >
> > on 10/15/01 11:15 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <Pa...@thbs.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a
> > chance to respond
> > > sooner.
> > >
> > > A few comments:
> > >
> > > ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact
> > is being used
> > > on a live website in the UK. It was developed as a product by
> > THBS, with the
> > > intention that we would sell it. However, due to various
> > economic factors such
> > > as the decline in the ASP market and the recent difficulties in
> > obtaining
> > > venture capital, we have decided that at this time it is not
> > feasible for is
> > > to continue in that direction.
> >
> > We aren't a dumping ground for .bomb projects.
> >
> > > We do think that ASPizer is an interesting product that has a
> > strong synergy
> > > with some existing Apache technologies. We intend to continue
> to provide
> > > development support, and we have no problem to committing 3
> > developers in an
> > > ongoing basis. As far as getting an Apache "champion", I'm not
> > sure how we go
> > > about that - I was hoping someone would be interested enough to
> > follow up
> > > based on the proposal that we submitted.
> >
> > Exactly.
> >
> > > As far as the user community is concerned, we believe that
> there are two
> > > primary groups -
> > >
> > > 1. ASP related companies, including ISVs developing for the
> ASP market,
> > > Aggregators who assemble packages of applications, and Hosting
> > providers,
> > >
> > > 2. Corporate users that run internal IT in an ASP-like way,
> or who have
> > > external clients accessing their systems (we have had
> > preliminary discussions
> > > with a couple of the latter).
> > >
> > > We would be able to support early-adopter clients during the
> > initial period of
> > > the product being made available, we are willing to commit to
> > at least two
> > > years.
> >
> > I'm confused. How can you commit two years when you can't get
> funding for
> > your business?
> >
> > > ASPizer may have some overlap with Turbine, but it is quite a
> different
> > > product. My understanding is that Turbine is basically a tool to help
> > > developers build web applications, whereas ASPizer is more of
> a platform
> > > extension. With ASPizer it is possible to configure an
> > application to run in
> > > an ASP model, including security, billing and licensing,
> > without actually
> > > changing the application at all (so in fact you can even
> > "ASPize" a non-J2EE
> > > application), although using the APIs provides a much more
> > granular set of
> > > facilities. We are also currently working on making ASPizer
> > available as a set
> > > of web services.
> >
> > The use of the term 'security' is very broad in your example.
> >
> > BTW, I wrote an ASPizer as well...it is called Noodle. LOL!
> >
> > http://noodle.tigris.org
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > > We will be happy to provide code and documentation for anyone who is
> > > interested in digging deeper.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > -jon
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: ASPizer
Posted by Paul Ilechko <Pa...@thbs.com>.
Tbanks for the constructive criticism, Jon.
Paul.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Stevens [mailto:jon@latchkey.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 2:30 PM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> Cc: Ranjit Mathew; Arnab Ghosh
> Subject: Re: ASPizer
>
>
> on 10/15/01 11:15 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <Pa...@thbs.com> wrote:
>
> > Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a
> chance to respond
> > sooner.
> >
> > A few comments:
> >
> > ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact
> is being used
> > on a live website in the UK. It was developed as a product by
> THBS, with the
> > intention that we would sell it. However, due to various
> economic factors such
> > as the decline in the ASP market and the recent difficulties in
> obtaining
> > venture capital, we have decided that at this time it is not
> feasible for is
> > to continue in that direction.
>
> We aren't a dumping ground for .bomb projects.
>
> > We do think that ASPizer is an interesting product that has a
> strong synergy
> > with some existing Apache technologies. We intend to continue to provide
> > development support, and we have no problem to committing 3
> developers in an
> > ongoing basis. As far as getting an Apache "champion", I'm not
> sure how we go
> > about that - I was hoping someone would be interested enough to
> follow up
> > based on the proposal that we submitted.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > As far as the user community is concerned, we believe that there are two
> > primary groups -
> >
> > 1. ASP related companies, including ISVs developing for the ASP market,
> > Aggregators who assemble packages of applications, and Hosting
> providers,
> >
> > 2. Corporate users that run internal IT in an ASP-like way, or who have
> > external clients accessing their systems (we have had
> preliminary discussions
> > with a couple of the latter).
> >
> > We would be able to support early-adopter clients during the
> initial period of
> > the product being made available, we are willing to commit to
> at least two
> > years.
>
> I'm confused. How can you commit two years when you can't get funding for
> your business?
>
> > ASPizer may have some overlap with Turbine, but it is quite a different
> > product. My understanding is that Turbine is basically a tool to help
> > developers build web applications, whereas ASPizer is more of a platform
> > extension. With ASPizer it is possible to configure an
> application to run in
> > an ASP model, including security, billing and licensing,
> without actually
> > changing the application at all (so in fact you can even
> "ASPize" a non-J2EE
> > application), although using the APIs provides a much more
> granular set of
> > facilities. We are also currently working on making ASPizer
> available as a set
> > of web services.
>
> The use of the term 'security' is very broad in your example.
>
> BTW, I wrote an ASPizer as well...it is called Noodle. LOL!
>
> http://noodle.tigris.org
>
> :-)
>
> > We will be happy to provide code and documentation for anyone who is
> > interested in digging deeper.
>
> Good luck.
>
> :-)
>
> -jon
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: ASPizer
Posted by Endre Stølsvik <En...@Stolsvik.com>.
On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Jon Stevens wrote:
| on 10/15/01 11:15 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <Pa...@thbs.com> wrote:
|
| > Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a chance to respond
| > sooner.
| >
| > A few comments:
| >
| > ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact is being used
| > on a live website in the UK. It was developed as a product by THBS, with the
| > intention that we would sell it. However, due to various economic factors such
| > as the decline in the ASP market and the recent difficulties in obtaining
| > venture capital, we have decided that at this time it is not feasible for is
| > to continue in that direction.
|
| We aren't a dumping ground for .bomb projects.
Why are you such an _asshole_ on mailing lists, Jon??
I just cannot believe your emails. They are such shit shometimes, it is
just amazing!
Go Jon, Go Jon, Go Jon, Go JOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!
YEAH!
Endre.
--
Mvh,
Endre
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Re: ASPizer
Posted by Jon Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 10/15/01 11:15 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <Pa...@thbs.com> wrote:
> Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a chance to respond
> sooner.
>
> A few comments:
>
> ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact is being used
> on a live website in the UK. It was developed as a product by THBS, with the
> intention that we would sell it. However, due to various economic factors such
> as the decline in the ASP market and the recent difficulties in obtaining
> venture capital, we have decided that at this time it is not feasible for is
> to continue in that direction.
We aren't a dumping ground for .bomb projects.
> We do think that ASPizer is an interesting product that has a strong synergy
> with some existing Apache technologies. We intend to continue to provide
> development support, and we have no problem to committing 3 developers in an
> ongoing basis. As far as getting an Apache "champion", I'm not sure how we go
> about that - I was hoping someone would be interested enough to follow up
> based on the proposal that we submitted.
Exactly.
> As far as the user community is concerned, we believe that there are two
> primary groups -
>
> 1. ASP related companies, including ISVs developing for the ASP market,
> Aggregators who assemble packages of applications, and Hosting providers,
>
> 2. Corporate users that run internal IT in an ASP-like way, or who have
> external clients accessing their systems (we have had preliminary discussions
> with a couple of the latter).
>
> We would be able to support early-adopter clients during the initial period of
> the product being made available, we are willing to commit to at least two
> years.
I'm confused. How can you commit two years when you can't get funding for
your business?
> ASPizer may have some overlap with Turbine, but it is quite a different
> product. My understanding is that Turbine is basically a tool to help
> developers build web applications, whereas ASPizer is more of a platform
> extension. With ASPizer it is possible to configure an application to run in
> an ASP model, including security, billing and licensing, without actually
> changing the application at all (so in fact you can even "ASPize" a non-J2EE
> application), although using the APIs provides a much more granular set of
> facilities. We are also currently working on making ASPizer available as a set
> of web services.
The use of the term 'security' is very broad in your example.
BTW, I wrote an ASPizer as well...it is called Noodle. LOL!
http://noodle.tigris.org
:-)
> We will be happy to provide code and documentation for anyone who is
> interested in digging deeper.
Good luck.
:-)
-jon
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RE: ASPizer
Posted by Paul Ilechko <Pa...@thbs.com>.
Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a chance to respond sooner.
A few comments:
ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact is being used on a live website in the UK. It was developed as a product by THBS, with the intention that we would sell it. However, due to various economic factors such as the decline in the ASP market and the recent difficulties in obtaining venture capital, we have decided that at this time it is not feasible for is to continue in that direction.
We do think that ASPizer is an interesting product that has a strong synergy with some existing Apache technologies. We intend to continue to provide development support, and we have no problem to committing 3 developers in an ongoing basis. As far as getting an Apache "champion", I'm not sure how we go about that - I was hoping someone would be interested enough to follow up based on the proposal that we submitted.
As far as the user community is concerned, we believe that there are two primary groups -
1. ASP related companies, including ISVs developing for the ASP market, Aggregators who assemble packages of applications, and Hosting providers,
2. Corporate users that run internal IT in an ASP-like way, or who have external clients accessing their systems (we have had preliminary discussions with a couple of the latter).
We would be able to support early-adopter clients during the initial period of the product being made available, we are willing to commit to at least two years.
ASPizer may have some overlap with Turbine, but it is quite a different product. My understanding is that Turbine is basically a tool to help developers build web applications, whereas ASPizer is more of a platform extension. With ASPizer it is possible to configure an application to run in an ASP model, including security, billing and licensing, without actually changing the application at all (so in fact you can even "ASPize" a non-J2EE application), although using the APIs provides a much more granular set of facilities. We are also currently working on making ASPizer available as a set of web services.
We will be happy to provide code and documentation for anyone who is interested in digging deeper.
Paul.
_____________________________
Paul Ilechko
Principal Architect
Torry Harris Business Solutions
paul_ilechko@thbs.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donald [mailto:donaldp@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:07 PM
> To: general@jakarta.apache.org; Paul Ilechko
> Cc: Ranjit Mathew; Arnab Ghosh
> Subject: Re: Tomcat extensions for ASPs
>
>
> Hi,
>
> The general rule of thumb for this sort of thing is that the project must
> have at least 3 developers involved and at least one "champion"
> from Apache
> to kickstart it. The reason for this is is that we need some way to
> guarenteee that the project will be a success and that there will
> still be
> developers involved with in a years or twos time. So you need to
> include this
> sort of information in your proposal.
>
> It would also be good to contrast it with existing Apache
> projects. ie How
> does it compare to something like turbine?
>
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