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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Mi...@wellsfargo.com on 2004/10/12 01:11:55 UTC
Back Button Woes!!!!
How do I get rid of this page being shown every time I click the back button:
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Craig McClanahan wrote the following on 10/12/2004 2:16 AM:
>
> It seems, though, that the grandfather ran into a roadblock. As he
> related the story, the grandfather said, "You know, there's something
> wrong with this computer. Most of the time, when I fill out a form,
> it shows me exactly what I'm typing. But, once in a while, no matter
> *what* I type, it only shows '*' characters ..."
Well almost correct.. it's worse because the generation gap wasn't
'that' bad - that story was MY dad! (for real). I posted that message to
this list first actually a couple months ago (it's in the archives).
Guess it's making it to other blogging sites now. My dad is famous. way
to go dad!
On a related note, my mom, who isn't much better off... I set them up
with firefox and they couldn't figure out how to enter in a URL and "get
it to work" since they didn't see a "Go" button that they were used to
pressing with IE:) They didn't realize you could just hit enter after
typing in the address. (I love explaining these things over the phone to
them .. fun fun:)
--
Rick
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 01:48:06 -0400, Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net> wrote:
> Andrew Hill wrote the following on 10/12/2004 1:13 AM:
> > I dunno mate. I wouldnt rule out client-side Java completely.
>
> Oh I wouldn't either. I think it'll be used more and more especially in
> corporate applications. I just don't think it'll replace web-based
> e-commerce sites etc. Is grandma Jones going to really want to install a
> desktop application on her computer so she can order some birdseed or
> knitting needles? (She's probably scared enough to even use her credit
> card:)
Since this thread is labelled OT already :-), I'm compelled to relate
an incident that I saw on a blog (which I unfortunately didn't keep
the link for).
It seems that a developer wanted to get his grandparents involved in
the Internet, so he went out and researched a good PC for them, set it
up with all the latest software, and painstakingly helped them through
the basic concepts of surfing the Net and so on.
It seems, though, that the grandfather ran into a roadblock. As he
related the story, the grandfather said, "You know, there's something
wrong with this computer. Most of the time, when I fill out a form,
it shows me exactly what I'm typing. But, once in a while, no matter
*what* I type, it only shows '*' characters ..."
Craig
PS: This post is actually a little wistful ... I showed *my*
grandfather one of the first "transportable" computers -- a Kaypro 10
-- and his eyes absolutely lit up with excitement. Unfortunately, he
died only a couple of years later and didn't get to see the incredible
revolution that computing has wrought on the world.
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Andrew Hill wrote the following on 10/12/2004 1:13 AM:
> I dunno mate. I wouldnt rule out client-side Java completely.
Oh I wouldn't either. I think it'll be used more and more especially in
corporate applications. I just don't think it'll replace web-based
e-commerce sites etc. Is grandma Jones going to really want to install a
desktop application on her computer so she can order some birdseed or
knitting needles? (She's probably scared enough to even use her credit
card:)
--
Rick
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Eddie Bush <ea...@swbell.net>.
Good to know, Andrew! Thanks for the FYI :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Hill" <an...@gridnode.com>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
>I dunno mate. I wouldnt rule out client-side Java completely.
>
> Came across a company called Nexaweb who have an interesting solution
> for the rich client problem which uses a 1.1 compatible applet for the
> client side, but has its own set of lightweight widgets (ie: not Swing).
> They have some online demos that are definately worth taking a look at.
>
> www.nexaweb.com
>
> (Its not free or open source though)
>
>
>
> Eddie Bush wrote:
>
>> Here, here, Rick,
>>
>> Not to mention that you have no guarantees as to which JRE the client
>> machines may have installed. Java on the client is an exceptionally
>> poor idea unless you have very explicit control over the machines it is
>> to be deployed to.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Eddie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Reumann" <st...@reumann.net>
>> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
>>
>>
>>> Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
>>>
>>>> "Walk toward the light"
>>>> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
>>>
>>>
>>> Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and
>>> more rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to
>>> want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
>>> application - so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
>>> Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser
>>> since the plugin is so easy to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that
>>> something like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will
>>> replace the likes of the browser as a client.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Andrew Hill <an...@gridnode.com>.
I dunno mate. I wouldnt rule out client-side Java completely.
Came across a company called Nexaweb who have an interesting solution
for the rich client problem which uses a 1.1 compatible applet for the
client side, but has its own set of lightweight widgets (ie: not Swing).
They have some online demos that are definately worth taking a look at.
www.nexaweb.com
(Its not free or open source though)
Eddie Bush wrote:
> Here, here, Rick,
>
> Not to mention that you have no guarantees as to which JRE the client
> machines may have installed. Java on the client is an exceptionally
> poor idea unless you have very explicit control over the machines it is
> to be deployed to.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eddie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Reumann" <st...@reumann.net>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:28 PM
> Subject: Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
>
>
>> Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
>>
>>> "Walk toward the light"
>>> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
>>
>>
>> Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and
>> more rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to
>> want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
>> application - so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
>> Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser
>> since the plugin is so easy to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that
>> something like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will
>> replace the likes of the browser as a client.
>>
>> --
>> Rick
>
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0442-0, 10/11/2004
> Tested on: 10/11/2004 10:31:40 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Frank W. Zammetti wrote the following on 10/12/2004 12:01 AM:
> I do a whole lot with frames-based designs, especially the idea of one
> of the frames being "hidden", which allows for caching of data, which
> allows for a lot of functionality with the server's input (i.e., sorting
> tables and such).
<snip>
, I'm surprised more people
> aren't taking this approach.
Actually there is a whole framework that uses this approach
http://www.nextapp.com/products/echo/ Some other guys in another
department are using it and it looked like a NIGHTMARE to me:) Then
again maybe they think Struts is a nightmare:) Any simple gui changes
for them were a big deal though (but then again maybe they were new to
the framework).
--
Rick
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Michael McGrady <mi...@michaelmcgrady.com>.
Really interesting, Frank. Thanks a million. Michael McGrady
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> +1.
>
> The thing that amazes me is that truly rich web-based clients can be
> done with nothing more than Javascript and DHTML, which to me is
> really optimal... you get all the best benefits of a web-delivered
> solution, but can get extremely fat-client-like look, feel and
> functionality.
>
> Not to toot my own horn (not that I don't do that of course :) ),
> but... around the office I'm known as the guy that can make a web
> application that most users think is a classic fat-client. Literally,
> some users can't tell they are using a web-based application. I'm
> fortunate in that the higher-ups in my shop dictated IE-only (lucky in
> the sense that it's one browser to deal with, not in other ways of
> course)... the point being that as long as you target relatively
> recent browsers, really rich clients aren't as hard as they used to be
> in terms of multi-browser support.
>
> I do a whole lot with frames-based designs, especially the idea of one
> of the frames being "hidden", which allows for caching of data, which
> allows for a lot of functionality with the server's input (i.e.,
> sorting tables and such). Yes, you have to be careful with data
> consistency issues, but a good architecture deals with them. Most of
> the apps I do also open their own chromeless window, which relieves
> (or minimizes) many issues, like the back button (still can be done
> with keyboard shortcuts, but it's still something that can be dealt
> with).
>
> I can't really push this approach for a generally-accessible web site,
> but if your talking internal applications where you have even some
> level of control over the clients touching your app, I'm surprised
> more people aren't taking this approach.
>
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
+1.
The thing that amazes me is that truly rich web-based clients can be
done with nothing more than Javascript and DHTML, which to me is really
optimal... you get all the best benefits of a web-delivered solution,
but can get extremely fat-client-like look, feel and functionality.
Not to toot my own horn (not that I don't do that of course :) ), but...
around the office I'm known as the guy that can make a web application
that most users think is a classic fat-client. Literally, some users
can't tell they are using a web-based application. I'm fortunate in
that the higher-ups in my shop dictated IE-only (lucky in the sense that
it's one browser to deal with, not in other ways of course)... the point
being that as long as you target relatively recent browsers, really rich
clients aren't as hard as they used to be in terms of multi-browser support.
I do a whole lot with frames-based designs, especially the idea of one
of the frames being "hidden", which allows for caching of data, which
allows for a lot of functionality with the server's input (i.e., sorting
tables and such). Yes, you have to be careful with data consistency
issues, but a good architecture deals with them. Most of the apps I do
also open their own chromeless window, which relieves (or minimizes)
many issues, like the back button (still can be done with keyboard
shortcuts, but it's still something that can be dealt with).
I can't really push this approach for a generally-accessible web site,
but if your talking internal applications where you have even some level
of control over the clients touching your app, I'm surprised more people
aren't taking this approach.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
Eddie Bush wrote:
> Here, here, Rick,
>
> Not to mention that you have no guarantees as to which JRE the client
> machines may have installed. Java on the client is an exceptionally
> poor idea unless you have very explicit control over the machines it is
> to be deployed to.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eddie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Reumann" <st...@reumann.net>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:28 PM
> Subject: Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
>
>
>> Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
>>
>>> "Walk toward the light"
>>> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
>>
>>
>> Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and
>> more rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to
>> want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
>> application - so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
>> Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser
>> since the plugin is so easy to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that
>> something like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will
>> replace the likes of the browser as a client.
>>
>> --
>> Rick
>
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0442-0, 10/11/2004
> Tested on: 10/11/2004 10:31:40 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Eddie Bush <ea...@swbell.net>.
Here, here, Rick,
Not to mention that you have no guarantees as to which JRE the client
machines may have installed. Java on the client is an exceptionally poor
idea unless you have very explicit control over the machines it is to be
deployed to.
Regards,
Eddie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Reumann" <st...@reumann.net>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <us...@struts.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
> Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
>> "Walk toward the light"
>> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
>
> Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and more
> rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to want to
> always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an application - so
> I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead." Flash is nice because
> it runs almost seemlessly within the browser since the plugin is so easy
> to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that something like Java Desktop will
> be that ubiquitous that it will replace the likes of the browser as a
> client.
>
> --
> Rick
---
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Hubert Rabago <hr...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:28:10 -0400, Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net> wrote:
> Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and
> more rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to
> want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
> application - so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
> Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser since
One thing I'd like to try in the future is the Laszlo platform.
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=29237
The demos look good, and it uses Flash on the client, which I think is
easier to rely on than Java.
Hubert
> the plugin is so easy to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that something
> like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will replace the likes
> of the browser as a client.
>
> --
> Rick
>
>
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OT: RiA/Soa - was OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@portalvu.com>.
Rick Reumann wrote:
> Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
>
>> "Walk toward the light"
>> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
>
>
> Vic, I briefly read over the article.
I was hoping people would do the 3 pages of code to check out, or
download it. It's for programing more than reading.
I agree that we'll see more and
> more rich clients,
Oh, yeah!
but one of the problems is people aren't going to
> want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
> application
Yes, if somone coded it, you'd realize that people don't have to do
that. JNLP and netx, etc. make it just as easy. We both have the same
clients, and I am aware of those issues.
- so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
Of course, existing projects need to be maintained. But new projects
that take 6 months to develop and one would operate for 3 years to get
ROI. I suggest that a year from now you want to say that you have 12
monhts of RiA/SoA experience. HTML is a 10 year old technology, and all
technolgies have early adopteros and late adaptors. In '93, 1% of
internet traffic was http, people could not belive that it would take over.
No need to learn new HTML skill I think, like bying a portelt book, you
won't get use out it.
> Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser since
> the plugin is so easy to install.
Yes, Flash runs in a borwser. What if JDNC let you bypass the browser.
The thing about disruptive techologies is that no one sees them coming.
Like FM radio, all the big borcasters could not belive it.
I'm not convinced, yet, that something
> like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will replace the likes
> of the browser as a client.
Some RiA will end up dominating. Candiates include Flash, XAML, JDNC,
XUL, Visual Basic, ....
I see advantages of JDNC, so please consider witing a hello world.
My predction: Within 6 months there will be tutorial on your site of how
to do "RiA".
;-)
.V
>
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Re: OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Rick Reumann <st...@reumann.net>.
Vic Cekvenich wrote the following on 10/11/2004 7:34 PM:
> "Walk toward the light"
> http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
Vic, I briefly read over the article. I agree that we'll see more and
more rich clients, but one of the problems is people aren't going to
want to always install stuff on their desktop in order to run an
application - so I wouldn't go so far as to say HTML will be "dead."
Flash is nice because it runs almost seemlessly within the browser since
the plugin is so easy to install. I'm not convinced, yet, that something
like Java Desktop will be that ubiquitous that it will replace the likes
of the browser as a client.
--
Rick
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OT Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Vic Cekvenich <ce...@portalvu.com>.
"Walk toward the light"
http://theserverside.com/articles/article.tss?l=RiA
If people have a choice, above in alternative. Bypass the browser!
.V
Mick.Knutson@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> How do I get rid of this page being shown every time I click the back button:
>
> ==================================================================
> Warning: Page has Expired
> The page you requested was created using information you submitted in a form. This page is no longer available. As a security precaution, Internet Explorer does not automatically resubmit your information for you.
>
> To resubmit your information and view this Web page, click the Refresh button.
> ==================================================================
>
> Every link in our application is a form submit button.
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Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Set <controller cache="false" /> in struts-config... When the user
triess to go back, they'll get a page expiration notice. Not the most
user-friendly idea, but it'll stop most data corruption issues.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
Hubert Rabago wrote:
> This happens when you're trying to go back to a page that was produced
> by a POSTed form. If you want to avoid this, use GET when submitting
> a form, or use redirect when displaying the resulting page.
>
> Hubert
>
>
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:11:55 -0500, mick.knutson@wellsfargo.com
> <mi...@wellsfargo.com> wrote:
>
>>How do I get rid of this page being shown every time I click the back button:
>>
>>==================================================================
>>Warning: Page has Expired
>>The page you requested was created using information you submitted in a form. This page is no longer available. As a security precaution, Internet Explorer does not automatically resubmit your information for you.
>>
>>To resubmit your information and view this Web page, click the Refresh button.
>>==================================================================
>>
>>Every link in our application is a form submit button.
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
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Re: Back Button Woes!!!!
Posted by Hubert Rabago <hr...@gmail.com>.
This happens when you're trying to go back to a page that was produced
by a POSTed form. If you want to avoid this, use GET when submitting
a form, or use redirect when displaying the resulting page.
Hubert
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:11:55 -0500, mick.knutson@wellsfargo.com
<mi...@wellsfargo.com> wrote:
> How do I get rid of this page being shown every time I click the back button:
>
> ==================================================================
> Warning: Page has Expired
> The page you requested was created using information you submitted in a form. This page is no longer available. As a security precaution, Internet Explorer does not automatically resubmit your information for you.
>
> To resubmit your information and view this Web page, click the Refresh button.
> ==================================================================
>
> Every link in our application is a form submit button.
>
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