[geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>]

Hi,

Probably biting off more than I can chew here, I'm currently as busy as the
day is long :-(, but I'd be happy to look at implementing javaMail for
Geronimo.

For those who don't know who the hell I am (or what I'm taking about) I'm a
James developer, and James is Apache's 100% Java mailserver.

Its worth noting that the James developers have, from time to time, had
"issues" with the design of Java mail, primarily that it is a client
oriented API which makes life difficult for server developers, we're left
with the choice of rolling our own or shoehorning round pegs into square
holes.

Notwithstanding this there are already moves afoot to create several
alternative implementations of javaMail abstract classes, (particularly
message "Store"s[1] where we see a market for implementations of MBOX and
other popular text based systems), and we've also toyed with the idea of
providing our own outgoing SMTP implementation (we currently use javaMail)
in order to have greater control over outgoing mail behaviour (we'd like to
optimse sending and implement connection re-use), and given that we're here
discussing Geronimo perhaps this could be an implementation of
"Transport"[2] to replace com.sun.mail.smtp.SMTPTransport

>From the POV of creating another javaMail implementation you may not realise
that Sun have already put a huge amount of implementation into javax.mail.*,
and very much of the inheritance root of javax.mail classes is made up of
abstract classes rather than interfaces. You only have to look at the
javadocs for j2ee to see that there's a much greater ratio of classes
(abstract and concrete) to interfaces in javax.mail than most other
packages.

Unfortunately this removes much of the scope we would like to have for
"correcting" the client bias in the API, by creating a ground-up
server-centric implementation.

Anyway I guess I should wait 'till we get a geronimo list before discussing
this much further.

d.

[1] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Store.html
[2] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Transport.html


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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> Obviously we will need a JavaMail implementation.

There is Classpathx, under GPL.  The James Project has looked into
sponsoring a JavaMail sub-project containing JavaMail.

> What I would like to see for a future release of Geronimo is
> an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message Bean that
> can process incoming e-mails.

You may wish to familarize yourself with the James Project.

Danny, who wrote the message to which you replied, is a James Committer, and
on the James PMC.

	--- Noel


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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>]

We are still open for considering proposals to be included in Mailet v3.
I suggest that if there are appropriate changes which could be made to the
API to make it conform with anything relevant you subscribe to
server-dev@james and put forward some proposals with reasoning.

Please be aware that we're pretty happy with the API at the moment, it has
been stable for a long time and serves it purpose well, so we're probably
not too recepetive to radical overhaul, but are receptive to sensitive
extensions where they may lever it into new territory (like this).

d.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Monson-Haefel [mailto:Richard@Monson-Haefel.com]
> Sent: 07 August 2003 10:16
> To: Danny Angus
> Cc: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail
>
>
> I just took a quick look at James. Nice job. I think the Mailet API is an
> excellent component model and would work well as an MDB. We would need to
> write adapters to make the Mailets conformant with EJB 2.1, but I don't
> think that will be very difficult. What we will need to do, however, is
> wrapper the calls to the Mailet with transaction and security control that
> is consistent with the EJB 2.1 specification. Again, I don't think this
> will be a big problem.  Anyway, it looks good to me. I'll be happy to help
> integrate James with Geronimo.
>
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
> > >  What I would like to see for a
> > > future release of
> > > Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> > > Bean that can
> > > process incoming e-mails.
> >
> > We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
> > interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
> > geronimo than creating anything new in this space.
> >
> > d.
>
> --
> Richard Monson-Haefel
> Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
> Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
> Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
> http://www.Monson-Haefel.com
>
>


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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Richard Monson-Haefel <Ri...@Monson-Haefel.com>]

I just took a quick look at James. Nice job. I think the Mailet API is an
excellent component model and would work well as an MDB. We would need to
write adapters to make the Mailets conformant with EJB 2.1, but I don't
think that will be very difficult. What we will need to do, however, is
wrapper the calls to the Mailet with transaction and security control that
is consistent with the EJB 2.1 specification. Again, I don't think this
will be a big problem.  Anyway, it looks good to me. I'll be happy to help
integrate James with Geronimo.

Danny Angus wrote:

> >  What I would like to see for a
> > future release of
> > Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> > Bean that can
> > process incoming e-mails.
>
> We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
> interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
> geronimo than creating anything new in this space.
>
> d.

--
Richard Monson-Haefel
Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
http://www.Monson-Haefel.com



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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>]

>  What I would like to see for a
> future release of
> Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> Bean that can
> process incoming e-mails.

We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
geronimo than creating anything new in this space.

d.


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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Richard Monson-Haefel <Ri...@Monson-Haefel.com>]

Obviously we will need a JavaMail implementation. Isn't there one out there
somewhere that is BSD like?  What I would like to see for a future release of
Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message Bean that can
process incoming e-mails.  One way to accomplish this is to implement the
messaging aspects of the J2EE connector architecture.  I would be happy to help
with that after we get the standard service working.

Danny Angus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Probably biting off more than I can chew here, I'm currently as busy as the
> day is long :-(, but I'd be happy to look at implementing javaMail for
> Geronimo.
>
> For those who don't know who the hell I am (or what I'm taking about) I'm a
> James developer, and James is Apache's 100% Java mailserver.
>
> Its worth noting that the James developers have, from time to time, had
> "issues" with the design of Java mail, primarily that it is a client
> oriented API which makes life difficult for server developers, we're left
> with the choice of rolling our own or shoehorning round pegs into square
> holes.
>
> Notwithstanding this there are already moves afoot to create several
> alternative implementations of javaMail abstract classes, (particularly
> message "Store"s[1] where we see a market for implementations of MBOX and
> other popular text based systems), and we've also toyed with the idea of
> providing our own outgoing SMTP implementation (we currently use javaMail)
> in order to have greater control over outgoing mail behaviour (we'd like to
> optimse sending and implement connection re-use), and given that we're here
> discussing Geronimo perhaps this could be an implementation of
> "Transport"[2] to replace com.sun.mail.smtp.SMTPTransport
>
> >From the POV of creating another javaMail implementation you may not realise
> that Sun have already put a huge amount of implementation into javax.mail.*,
> and very much of the inheritance root of javax.mail classes is made up of
> abstract classes rather than interfaces. You only have to look at the
> javadocs for j2ee to see that there's a much greater ratio of classes
> (abstract and concrete) to interfaces in javax.mail than most other
> packages.
>
> Unfortunately this removes much of the scope we would like to have for
> "correcting" the client bias in the API, by creating a ground-up
> server-centric implementation.
>
> Anyway I guess I should wait 'till we get a geronimo list before discussing
> this much further.
>
> d.
>
> [1] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Store.html
> [2] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Transport.html
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

--
Richard Monson-Haefel
Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
http://www.Monson-Haefel.com



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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 12:38  pm, Danny Angus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Probably biting off more than I can chew here, I'm currently as busy 
> as the
> day is long :-(, but I'd be happy to look at implementing javaMail for
> Geronimo.

Great stuff Danny. Lets all start chewing soon :)

James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/


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