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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com> on 2002/09/06 03:19:01 UTC

"same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Hi there, I'm not sure what's causing this, but when I rm -rf a repository
recently checked out remotely from subversion I get this rather dangerous
sounding warning:

rm: WARNING: Circular directory structure.
This almost certainly means that you have a corrupted file system.
NOTIFY YOUR SYSTEM MANAGER.
The following two directories have the same inode number:

test/repo
`test/repo/branch/projects/game/libs/landscape/.svn/tmp/props'


I've run chkdsk etc, on the drive (win2k/NTFS) and it finds no problems at
all.

This might be caused because I was playing/testing with the svn cp and svn
rm commands, but I have no idea.  I'll keep experimenting today and see if I
can reproduce it.  (I have had it twice now in separate repositories)

I can delete the offending directories from the windows File Explorer and
don't get any complaints.

What's going on?

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org





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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
But it was after using the cygwin version of svn was it?  I have never seen
this problem before.. and I always tend to blame my most recent software
install :-)  (ie. svn)

I went to the deepest of the two directories with the same node, and used
"rmdir" on it and it worked.

You're right, chkdsk didn't fix it.

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org

"Blair Zajac" <bl...@orcaware.com> wrote in message
news:3D78279E.E5F389EC@orcaware.com...
> Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
> >
> > scratch that... I can't delete it in windows.. explorer freezes so maybe
I
> > do have something wrong in there.  However, I've never encountered this
kind
> > of problem before and I use cygwin/win2k extensively.  Its a little too
much
> > of a coincidence that it has occured exactly in the svn directory.  Is
there
> > some kind of hard-linking going on?
> >
> > now to run chkdsk again :(
>
> I've got a similar directory that can't be deleted and chkdsk doesn't fix
> it.  It wasn't related to svn however, it was the directory I keep my
Cygwin
> setup.exe and locally cached *.tar.{bz2,gz} in.
>
> If you figure out how to fix it, please let me know.
>
> Best,
> Blair
>
> --
> Blair Zajac <bl...@orcaware.com>
> Web and OS performance plots - http://www.orcaware.com/orca/
>
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>
>




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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Blair Zajac <bl...@orcaware.com>.
Dylan Cuthbert wrote:
> 
> scratch that... I can't delete it in windows.. explorer freezes so maybe I
> do have something wrong in there.  However, I've never encountered this kind
> of problem before and I use cygwin/win2k extensively.  Its a little too much
> of a coincidence that it has occured exactly in the svn directory.  Is there
> some kind of hard-linking going on?
> 
> now to run chkdsk again :(

I've got a similar directory that can't be deleted and chkdsk doesn't fix
it.  It wasn't related to svn however, it was the directory I keep my Cygwin
setup.exe and locally cached *.tar.{bz2,gz} in.

If you figure out how to fix it, please let me know.

Best,
Blair

-- 
Blair Zajac <bl...@orcaware.com>
Web and OS performance plots - http://www.orcaware.com/orca/

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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
scratch that... I can't delete it in windows.. explorer freezes so maybe I
do have something wrong in there.  However, I've never encountered this kind
of problem before and I use cygwin/win2k extensively.  Its a little too much
of a coincidence that it has occured exactly in the svn directory.  Is there
some kind of hard-linking going on?

now to run chkdsk again :(

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org


"Dylan Cuthbert" <dy...@q-games.com> wrote in message
news:al96s6$8pj$1@main.gmane.org...
> Hi there, I'm not sure what's causing this, but when I rm -rf a repository
> recently checked out remotely from subversion I get this rather dangerous
> sounding warning:
>
> rm: WARNING: Circular directory structure.
> This almost certainly means that you have a corrupted file system.
> NOTIFY YOUR SYSTEM MANAGER.
> The following two directories have the same inode number:
>
> test/repo
> `test/repo/branch/projects/game/libs/landscape/.svn/tmp/props'
>
>
> I've run chkdsk etc, on the drive (win2k/NTFS) and it finds no problems at
> all.
>
> This might be caused because I was playing/testing with the svn cp and svn
> rm commands, but I have no idea.  I'll keep experimenting today and see if
I
> can reproduce it.  (I have had it twice now in separate repositories)
>
> I can delete the offending directories from the windows File Explorer and
> don't get any complaints.
>
> What's going on?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
> http://www.q-games.com
> P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>




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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by mark benedetto king <bk...@inquira.com>.
On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:37:30AM -0700, Zack Weinberg wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:20:03AM -0700, Bill Tutt wrote:
> > a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> > So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it are up
> > for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be distributed
> > using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.
> 
> should _not_, you meant?
> 
> This error came from the 'rm' binary provided with Cygwin, not from
> svn itself.
> 
> > You can create circular directory structures on Unix just like you can
> > on NTFS after all.
> 
> No, under Unix you can't, not since V6.  The kernel will not permit
> anyone to make hard links to a directory.  I'm surprised to hear NT
> allows it - it causes all sorts of headaches.
> 

Yes, they cause some headaches, but they enable you to share data
between chrooted environments, for example.

Enter "mount -o bind", at least on linux.

--ben


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RE: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Bill Tutt <ra...@lyra.org>.
> From: Zack Weinberg [mailto:zack@codesourcery.com]
> 
> On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:20:03AM -0700, Bill Tutt wrote:
> > a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> > So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it
are up
> > for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be
distributed
> > using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.
> 
> should _not_, you meant?
> 
Er, yes. Should not be distributed using cygwin.

> This error came from the 'rm' binary provided with Cygwin, not from
> svn itself.
> 
> > You can create circular directory structures on Unix just like you
can
> > on NTFS after all.
> 
> No, under Unix you can't, not since V6.  The kernel will not permit
> anyone to make hard links to a directory.  I'm surprised to hear NT
> allows it - it causes all sorts of headaches.
> 

It's also certainly possible that cygwin is misgrokking a NTFS reparse
point. Inode mapping schemes on NT are usually funky in some form or
fashion, so it could also be an issue with that somehow.

I don't know if NTFS lets you hard link a directory. I would hope it
didn't allow such things to happen as well.

Bill


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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Zack Weinberg <za...@codesourcery.com>.
On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:20:03AM -0700, Bill Tutt wrote:
> a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it are up
> for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be distributed
> using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.

should _not_, you meant?

This error came from the 'rm' binary provided with Cygwin, not from
svn itself.

> You can create circular directory structures on Unix just like you can
> on NTFS after all.

No, under Unix you can't, not since V6.  The kernel will not permit
anyone to make hard links to a directory.  I'm surprised to hear NT
allows it - it causes all sorts of headaches.

zw

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Re: Re: Re: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
"Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote in message
news:58C671173DB6174A93E9ED88DCB0883D05A1C2D1@red-msg-07.redmond.corp.micros
oft.com...
>
> No, it's the Win32 package creator's fault for not using mingw versions
> of diff and diff3.

true, touche :-)

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org






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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Sergey A Lipnevich <se...@pisem.net>.
I believe the following project has diff and diff3 which would work.
To make them execute, one will need packages: diffutils, gettext, and 
libiconv. Download the <package>-<version>-bin.zip from SF, and unzip 
them with directories into c:\gnuwin32, for instance. Then, append 
c:\gnuwin32\bin to PATH. Voila!

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gnuwin32/diffutils-2.8.1-bin.zip?download
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gnuwin32/gettext-0.10.40-bin.zip?download
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gnuwin32/libiconv-1.7-bin.zip?download

HTH.
--Sergey.

Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:

>"Dylan Cuthbert" <dy...@q-games.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>btw. I just installed the windows "native" version of subversion.
>>
>>It appears to install and use c:\program files\cygwin for diff.exe and
>>diff3.exe.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, 'svn up' and 'svn merge' use diff and diff3 to do patching.
>
>  
>
>>The really nasty thing is that it also installs cygwin1.dll and some other
>>cygwin related dll into the same directory and then tries to use the diff
>>commands directly from within "svn.exe".
>>
>>Of course, if you already have cygwin installed, then these dlls are
>>out-of-date as are the diff commands and application errors ensue.
>>
>>So it seems cygwin has its uses even for the windows native version - its
>>just a shame it has been done so forcefully.
>>    
>>
>
>People are aware of this;  I believe people have been discussing
>solutions to this very problem, no?  
>
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>  
>


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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
"Dylan Cuthbert" <dy...@q-games.com> writes:

> btw. I just installed the windows "native" version of subversion.
> 
> It appears to install and use c:\program files\cygwin for diff.exe and
> diff3.exe.

Yes, 'svn up' and 'svn merge' use diff and diff3 to do patching.

> 
> The really nasty thing is that it also installs cygwin1.dll and some other
> cygwin related dll into the same directory and then tries to use the diff
> commands directly from within "svn.exe".
> 
> Of course, if you already have cygwin installed, then these dlls are
> out-of-date as are the diff commands and application errors ensue.
> 
> So it seems cygwin has its uses even for the windows native version - its
> just a shame it has been done so forcefully.

People are aware of this;  I believe people have been discussing
solutions to this very problem, no?  

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RE: Re: Re: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Bill Tutt <ra...@lyra.org>.
> From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> 
> btw. I just installed the windows "native" version of subversion.
> 
> It appears to install and use c:\program files\cygwin for diff.exe and
> diff3.exe.
> 
> The really nasty thing is that it also installs cygwin1.dll and some
other
> cygwin related dll into the same directory and then tries to use the
diff
> commands directly from within "svn.exe".
> 
> Of course, if you already have cygwin installed, then these dlls are
> out-of-date as are the diff commands and application errors ensue.
> 
> So it seems cygwin has its uses even for the windows native version -
its
> just a shame it has been done so forcefully.
> 

No, it's the Win32 package creator's fault for not using mingw versions
of diff and diff3. 

Bill


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Re: Re: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
btw. I just installed the windows "native" version of subversion.

It appears to install and use c:\program files\cygwin for diff.exe and
diff3.exe.

The really nasty thing is that it also installs cygwin1.dll and some other
cygwin related dll into the same directory and then tries to use the diff
commands directly from within "svn.exe".

Of course, if you already have cygwin installed, then these dlls are
out-of-date as are the diff commands and application errors ensue.

So it seems cygwin has its uses even for the windows native version - its
just a shame it has been done so forcefully.

Regards

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org





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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by egor duda <de...@logos-m.ru>.
Hi!

Friday, 06 September, 2002 you wrote:

BT> I was just suggesting using mingw to compile Subversion, not about
BT> anything else you might want to be do with cygwin/gcc.

And what's the problem? Feel free to go ahead and provide a mingw
port. It's not clear how this contradict an existence of cygwin one.

If core developers use cygwin because they find it convenient, its
a little pointless to persuade them that you know better what
"convenient" is, isn't it?

Egor.            mailto:deo@logos-m.ru ICQ 5165414 FidoNet 2:5020/496.19


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RE: Re: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Bill Tutt <ra...@lyra.org>.

> From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> 
> "Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote in message
> >
> >
> > > From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> > >
> > > Hey, cygwin isn't quite that evil, it gives windows users a breath
of
> > > fresh
> > > air, allowing the use of emacs, bash, even Xfree86.. not to
mention
> > about
> > > another 500+ really useful unix tools and libraries.
> > >
> >
> > For things that don't port well to Windows, then yes it does, and
all
> > power to folks who like such things.
> >
> > However, for projects like Subversion that have been ported to work
on
> > Windows, cygwin just shouldn't be used. It makes the maintainer's
job
> > more annoying by introducing the machinery cygwin uses to accomplish
> > some of the API calls used in Unix programs. Usually to a perf
> > detriment, not to mention assuming the users cygwin install is
bugfree.
> 
> 
> Not strictly true, we use cygwin as a development environment even
though
> we
> aren't developing cygwin apps, this is because it supports things such
as
> symbolic-linking and a decent shell environment and decent scripting.
> Mingw
> is ok, but it has none of the shell or scripting stuff, simply being a
> decent compiler in a crap environment.
> 

You do know that Windows 2000 on does have "symbolic links" (aka NTFS
reparse points) don't you? APR's file stat routine even groks these
things.

I just write Python if I want scripting code to happen. With tab
completion in Win32's shell, I never need a decent shell except for Unix
oriented reasons. (i.e. a bash script that needs to get run)

> We can, of course, use the Windows SVN tools but they don't know about
the
> symlinks and directory paths of our environment which can be very
> frustrating sometimes.
> 

Yet another reason why cygwin is so annoying. APR doesn't grok cygwin
symlinks out side of cygwin for example. I'm sure you might be able to
submit a patch for such support though.

> We are not going to start using Visual Studio or MSDOS (or whatever it
has
> become nowadays) so what do you suggest to replace Cygwin?  Cygwin is
an
> important tool and no longer just a porting tool as it used to be IMO.
> 

Cygwin is always a porting layer, it is nothing more. Having said that,
it doesn't mean that you can't just deal with a cygwin ported legacy
Unix application. With the associated perf hits, and Win32 system
interaction overhead. (Nobody else understanding those cygwin symlinks,
etc...)

You certainly can't develop a seriously focused Win32 application using
cygwin, and indeed mingw. Mingw still can't get a subset of the COM ABI
implemented correctly. (Although it's not gcc's fault, MS patented the
technique.)

I was just suggesting using mingw to compile Subversion, not about
anything else you might want to be do with cygwin/gcc.

Glad you're willing to pitch in and try and help figure things out
though!

Thanks,
Bill


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Re: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
"Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote in message
news:58C671173DB6174A93E9ED88DCB0883D04760B93@red-msg-07.redmond.corp.micros
oft.com...
>
>
> > From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> >
> > Hey, cygwin isn't quite that evil, it gives windows users a breath of
> > fresh
> > air, allowing the use of emacs, bash, even Xfree86.. not to mention
> about
> > another 500+ really useful unix tools and libraries.
> >
>
> For things that don't port well to Windows, then yes it does, and all
> power to folks who like such things.
>
> However, for projects like Subversion that have been ported to work on
> Windows, cygwin just shouldn't be used. It makes the maintainer's job
> more annoying by introducing the machinery cygwin uses to accomplish
> some of the API calls used in Unix programs. Usually to a perf
> detriment, not to mention assuming the users cygwin install is bugfree.


Not strictly true, we use cygwin as a development environment even though we
aren't developing cygwin apps, this is because it supports things such as
symbolic-linking and a decent shell environment and decent scripting.  Mingw
is ok, but it has none of the shell or scripting stuff, simply being a
decent compiler in a crap environment.

We can, of course, use the Windows SVN tools but they don't know about the
symlinks and directory paths of our environment which can be very
frustrating sometimes.

We are not going to start using Visual Studio or MSDOS (or whatever it has
become nowadays) so what do you suggest to replace Cygwin?  Cygwin is an
important tool and no longer just a porting tool as it used to be IMO.


>
> If it works lucky you, but don't expect everybody to be terribly
> thrilled about helping you solve problems with cygwin hosted Subversion
> clients.

Surely, the ultimate aim to get subversion working on all platforms that cvs
works on?  Never mind that, working on as many platforms as possible.

> We have more important things to care about than chasing down possible
> cygwin bugs. :)

If it is a cygwin bug, but considering the no. of crashes and problems I've
had using subversion (on linux) in the first few days I don't think stones
should be thrown just yet. ;-)  subversion is nowhere near as stable/robust
as the FAQ would have you believe.

Still, one gets what one pays for so no hard feelings :-)  I'll just be
happy to help people track down some of these problems.

Regards

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com





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RE: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by David Viner <dv...@yahoo-inc.com>.
as a side note, windows users can use emacs w/out cygwin.
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html

(nothing against cygwin... just wanted to point out emacs' ubiquity.)

dave


-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:news@main.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Dylan Cuthbert
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:35 AM
To: dev@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client


"Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote in message
news:58C671173DB6174A93E9ED88DCB0883D04760B92@red-msg-07.redmond.corp.micros
oft.com...
> a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it are up
> for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be distributed
> using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.


Hey, cygwin isn't quite that evil, it gives windows users a breath of fresh
air, allowing the use of emacs, bash, even Xfree86.. not to mention about
another 500+ really useful unix tools and libraries.

> b) The warning is bogus. You don't necessarily have a corrupt file
> system.

That's good news! :-)

>
> Assuming the warning is valid, it's certainly possible to have a
> circular directory structure. That's what you can do with NTFS hard
> links, and funky NTFS reparse points.

There was a circular directory structure and somehow deleting it from the
bottom-up cured it, not sure why.  I haven't had the problem again today,
but I am encountering other problems with svn and directories. (see other
mails)

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org





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RE: Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Bill Tutt <ra...@lyra.org>.

> From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> 
> "Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote:
> > a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> > So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it
are up
> > for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be
distributed
> > using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.
> 
> 
> Hey, cygwin isn't quite that evil, it gives windows users a breath of
> fresh
> air, allowing the use of emacs, bash, even Xfree86.. not to mention
about
> another 500+ really useful unix tools and libraries.
> 

For things that don't port well to Windows, then yes it does, and all
power to folks who like such things.

However, for projects like Subversion that have been ported to work on
Windows, cygwin just shouldn't be used. It makes the maintainer's job
more annoying by introducing the machinery cygwin uses to accomplish
some of the API calls used in Unix programs. Usually to a perf
detriment, not to mention assuming the users cygwin install is bugfree.

If it works lucky you, but don't expect everybody to be terribly
thrilled about helping you solve problems with cygwin hosted Subversion
clients.

We have more important things to care about than chasing down possible
cygwin bugs. :)

Bill



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Re: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Dylan Cuthbert <dy...@q-games.com>.
"Bill Tutt" <ra...@lyra.org> wrote in message
news:58C671173DB6174A93E9ED88DCB0883D04760B92@red-msg-07.redmond.corp.micros
oft.com...
> a) Cygwin == evil porting library
> So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it are up
> for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be distributed
> using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.


Hey, cygwin isn't quite that evil, it gives windows users a breath of fresh
air, allowing the use of emacs, bash, even Xfree86.. not to mention about
another 500+ really useful unix tools and libraries.

> b) The warning is bogus. You don't necessarily have a corrupt file
> system.

That's good news! :-)

>
> Assuming the warning is valid, it's certainly possible to have a
> circular directory structure. That's what you can do with NTFS hard
> links, and funky NTFS reparse points.

There was a circular directory structure and somehow deleting it from the
bottom-up cured it, not sure why.  I haven't had the problem again today,
but I am encountering other problems with svn and directories. (see other
mails)

---------------------------------
Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
http://www.q-games.com
P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org





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RE: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client

Posted by Bill Tutt <ra...@lyra.org>.
a) Cygwin == evil porting library
So, any issues you have with using a svn client compiled under it are up
for grabs. IMNSHO, any official svn client binary should be distributed
using cygwin. If you want it to be compiled with GCC then use mingw.
b) The warning is bogus. You don't necessarily have a corrupt file
system.

Assuming the warning is valid, it's certainly possible to have a
circular directory structure. That's what you can do with NTFS hard
links, and funky NTFS reparse points.

You can create circular directory structures on Unix just like you can
on NTFS after all.

FYI,
Bill
----
Do you want a dangerous fugitive staying in your flat?
No.
Well, don't upset him and he'll be a nice fugitive staying in your flat.
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dylan Cuthbert [mailto:dylan@q-games.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:19 PM
> To: dev@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: "same inode" problems with cygwin svn client
> 
> Hi there, I'm not sure what's causing this, but when I rm -rf a
repository
> recently checked out remotely from subversion I get this rather
dangerous
> sounding warning:
> 
> rm: WARNING: Circular directory structure.
> This almost certainly means that you have a corrupted file system.
> NOTIFY YOUR SYSTEM MANAGER.
> The following two directories have the same inode number:
> 
> test/repo
> `test/repo/branch/projects/game/libs/landscape/.svn/tmp/props'
> 
> 
> I've run chkdsk etc, on the drive (win2k/NTFS) and it finds no
problems at
> all.
> 
> This might be caused because I was playing/testing with the svn cp and
svn
> rm commands, but I have no idea.  I'll keep experimenting today and
see if
> I
> can reproduce it.  (I have had it twice now in separate repositories)
> 
> I can delete the offending directories from the windows File Explorer
and
> don't get any complaints.
> 
> What's going on?
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Q-Games, Dylan Cuthbert.
> http://www.q-games.com
> P2P internet radio - http://www.peercast.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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