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Posted to dev@camel.apache.org by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> on 2020/08/20 11:12:34 UTC
Alternatives to gitter
Hello,
Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
- threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
messing up
- messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
what it is happening
- messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
- sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
for a given thread
I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
(please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
different).
I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent organization (
camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
everyone.
If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
---
Luca Burgazzoli
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:37 PM Omar Al-Safi <om...@oalsafi.com> wrote:
> Hi Luca,
>
> Yes is true, gitter clients on Android and iOS not the best, also zulip
> looks nice, however my concerns would be the maintenance overhead, we have
> now gitter and mailing list which is enough I think. If we introduce a
> third tool, this could be annoying to keep track of, is just my personal
> opinion on this of course.
>
>
I think that if we introduce another tool, the we need to sunset giotter,
we can keep it open for some time but at certain point, we should have only
one IM
> Also, it would be nice if we can evaluate zulip on a small scale and
> compare it with gitter.
>
> On the chat topic, it would be nice if we can have a `dev` room where we
> can discuss dev topics in relation to Camel (something similar to Debezium
> dev channel on gitter), instead of email/jira as sometimes brainstorming as
> async manner would make more sense.
>
Yeah, it could be much easier with tools like zulip as you can control what
channel/streams to create so we can have everything about camel in a single
place
>
> Regards,
> Omar
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> terrible
> > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >
> > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > messing up
> > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> > what it is happening
> > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> messages
> > for a given thread
> >
> > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > different).
> >
> > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > organization (
> > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> > everyone.
> >
> > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Omar Al-Safi <om...@oalsafi.com>.
Hi Luca,
Yes is true, gitter clients on Android and iOS not the best, also zulip
looks nice, however my concerns would be the maintenance overhead, we have
now gitter and mailing list which is enough I think. If we introduce a
third tool, this could be annoying to keep track of, is just my personal
opinion on this of course.
Also, it would be nice if we can evaluate zulip on a small scale and
compare it with gitter.
On the chat topic, it would be nice if we can have a `dev` room where we
can discuss dev topics in relation to Camel (something similar to Debezium
dev channel on gitter), instead of email/jira as sometimes brainstorming as
async manner would make more sense.
Regards,
Omar
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi,
I would go for Slack @The-ASF, it’s the "official" slack for Apache project, and we already have a room for Camel.
Regards
JB
> Le 20 août 2020 à 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
Yes, go ahead please.
Thanks.
Il giorno lun 31 ago 2020 alle ore 08:13 Luca Burgazzoli <
lburgazzoli@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> Hi,
>
> Should we start an official vote ?
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:08 PM Omar Al-Safi <om...@oalsafi.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd also give my vote on this:
> >
> > +1 zulip
> > -1 gitter
> > 0 slack
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:40 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Thanks for the zulip testing experience.
> > >
> > > +1 for zulip
> > > -1 for slack
> > > 0 for staying on gitter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:16 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So I've created a new Zulip organization for testing purposes here:
> > > > https://camel-test.zulipchat.com (I've named it camel-test as
> there's
> > an
> > > > option to import gitter chats but can be done only for new
> > organization)
> > > > Anyone should be able to join using github/gitlab/google, by mail or
> > with
> > > > an invitation.
> > > >
> > > > I've also had some discussion with the Zulip team as well as other
> > teams
> > > > using Zulip and I can confirm that it is possible to request a
> standard
> > > > plan for open source so we can get rid of the message history issue.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
> > > > >
> > > > > “Free hosting at zulip.com.
> > > > > The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s
> > > commercial
> > > > > offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in
> supporting
> > > free
> > > > > and open source software: development projects, foundations,
> meetups,
> > > > > hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure
> > whether
> > > > > your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.
> ”
> > > > >
> > > > > zoran
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Luca,
> > > > > > are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I
> read
> > > that
> > > > > as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > zoran
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <
> lburgazzoli@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---
> > > > > >> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <
> > zoran@regvart.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Hi Cameleers,
> > > > > >>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when
> > there
> > > are
> > > > > >>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an
> OpenSource
> > > plan
> > > > > >>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for
> an
> > > open
> > > > > >>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited
> > > history[2].
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source
> > > projects
> > > > > >> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm
> reading
> > it
> > > > > wrong ?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF
> > > wide.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> zoran
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> > > > > >>> [2]
> > > > >
> > https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> > > > > lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Hello,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on
> > gitter
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was
> > quite
> > > > > >>> terrible
> > > > > >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as
> example:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus
> messages
> > > are
> > > > > >>>> messing up
> > > > > >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message
> > you
> > > > > sent
> > > > > >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't
> > > actually
> > > > > know
> > > > > >>>> what it is happening
> > > > > >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read
> them
> > > > > >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see
> > new
> > > > > >>> messages
> > > > > >>>> for a given thread
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration
> with
> > > the
> > > > > tool
> > > > > >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > > > > alternatives
> > > > > >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to
> > something
> > > > > >>>> different).
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > > > > >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > > > > >>> organization (
> > > > > >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google
> so
> > > you
> > > > > can
> > > > > >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I
> > know
> > > > > it's
> > > > > >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be
> > > optimal
> > > > > for
> > > > > >>>> everyone.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> ---
> > > > > >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> Zoran Regvart
> > > > > >>>
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Claus Ibsen
> > > -----------------
> > > http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> > > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
> > >
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Should we start an official vote ?
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:08 PM Omar Al-Safi <om...@oalsafi.com> wrote:
> I'd also give my vote on this:
>
> +1 zulip
> -1 gitter
> 0 slack
>
> Regards
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:40 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks for the zulip testing experience.
> >
> > +1 for zulip
> > -1 for slack
> > 0 for staying on gitter
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:16 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > So I've created a new Zulip organization for testing purposes here:
> > > https://camel-test.zulipchat.com (I've named it camel-test as there's
> an
> > > option to import gitter chats but can be done only for new
> organization)
> > > Anyone should be able to join using github/gitlab/google, by mail or
> with
> > > an invitation.
> > >
> > > I've also had some discussion with the Zulip team as well as other
> teams
> > > using Zulip and I can confirm that it is possible to request a standard
> > > plan for open source so we can get rid of the message history issue.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
> > > >
> > > > https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
> > > >
> > > > “Free hosting at zulip.com.
> > > > The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s
> > commercial
> > > > offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in supporting
> > free
> > > > and open source software: development projects, foundations, meetups,
> > > > hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure
> whether
> > > > your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.”
> > > >
> > > > zoran
> > > > --
> > > > Sent from mobile
> > > >
> > > > > On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Luca,
> > > > > are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read
> > that
> > > > as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
> > > > >
> > > > > zoran
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sent from mobile
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lburgazzoli@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---
> > > > >> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <
> zoran@regvart.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Hi Cameleers,
> > > > >>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when
> there
> > are
> > > > >>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource
> > plan
> > > > >>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an
> > open
> > > > >>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited
> > history[2].
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source
> > projects
> > > > >> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading
> it
> > > > wrong ?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF
> > wide.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> zoran
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> > > > >>> [2]
> > > >
> https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> > > > lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Hello,
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on
> gitter
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was
> quite
> > > > >>> terrible
> > > > >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages
> > are
> > > > >>>> messing up
> > > > >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message
> you
> > > > sent
> > > > >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't
> > actually
> > > > know
> > > > >>>> what it is happening
> > > > >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > > > >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see
> new
> > > > >>> messages
> > > > >>>> for a given thread
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with
> > the
> > > > tool
> > > > >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > > > alternatives
> > > > >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to
> something
> > > > >>>> different).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > > > >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > > > >>> organization (
> > > > >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so
> > you
> > > > can
> > > > >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I
> know
> > > > it's
> > > > >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be
> > optimal
> > > > for
> > > > >>>> everyone.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> ---
> > > > >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Zoran Regvart
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Claus Ibsen
> > -----------------
> > http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Omar Al-Safi <om...@oalsafi.com>.
I'd also give my vote on this:
+1 zulip
-1 gitter
0 slack
Regards
On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:40 PM Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Thanks for the zulip testing experience.
>
> +1 for zulip
> -1 for slack
> 0 for staying on gitter
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:16 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > So I've created a new Zulip organization for testing purposes here:
> > https://camel-test.zulipchat.com (I've named it camel-test as there's an
> > option to import gitter chats but can be done only for new organization)
> > Anyone should be able to join using github/gitlab/google, by mail or with
> > an invitation.
> >
> > I've also had some discussion with the Zulip team as well as other teams
> > using Zulip and I can confirm that it is possible to request a standard
> > plan for open source so we can get rid of the message history issue.
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
> > >
> > > https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
> > >
> > > “Free hosting at zulip.com.
> > > The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s
> commercial
> > > offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in supporting
> free
> > > and open source software: development projects, foundations, meetups,
> > > hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure whether
> > > your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.”
> > >
> > > zoran
> > > --
> > > Sent from mobile
> > >
> > > > On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Luca,
> > > > are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read
> that
> > > as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
> > > >
> > > > zoran
> > > > --
> > > > Sent from mobile
> > > >
> > > >> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> ---
> > > >> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi Cameleers,
> > > >>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there
> are
> > > >>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource
> plan
> > > >>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an
> open
> > > >>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited
> history[2].
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source
> projects
> > > >> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it
> > > wrong ?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF
> wide.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> zoran
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> > > >>> [2]
> > > https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> > > lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hello,
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter
> on
> > > the
> > > >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> > > >>> terrible
> > > >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages
> are
> > > >>>> messing up
> > > >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> > > sent
> > > >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't
> actually
> > > know
> > > >>>> what it is happening
> > > >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > > >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> > > >>> messages
> > > >>>> for a given thread
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with
> the
> > > tool
> > > >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > > alternatives
> > > >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > > >>>> different).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > > >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > > >>> organization (
> > > >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so
> you
> > > can
> > > >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> > > it's
> > > >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be
> optimal
> > > for
> > > >>>> everyone.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ---
> > > >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Zoran Regvart
> > > >>>
> > >
>
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Thanks for the zulip testing experience.
+1 for zulip
-1 for slack
0 for staying on gitter
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:16 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So I've created a new Zulip organization for testing purposes here:
> https://camel-test.zulipchat.com (I've named it camel-test as there's an
> option to import gitter chats but can be done only for new organization)
> Anyone should be able to join using github/gitlab/google, by mail or with
> an invitation.
>
> I've also had some discussion with the Zulip team as well as other teams
> using Zulip and I can confirm that it is possible to request a standard
> plan for open source so we can get rid of the message history issue.
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
>
> > Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
> >
> > https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
> >
> > “Free hosting at zulip.com.
> > The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s commercial
> > offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in supporting free
> > and open source software: development projects, foundations, meetups,
> > hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure whether
> > your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.”
> >
> > zoran
> > --
> > Sent from mobile
> >
> > > On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Luca,
> > > are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read that
> > as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
> > >
> > > zoran
> > > --
> > > Sent from mobile
> > >
> > >> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> Luca Burgazzoli
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Cameleers,
> > >>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
> > >>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> > >>>
> > >>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
> > >>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
> > >>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
> > >> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it
> > wrong ?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
> > >>>
> > >>> zoran
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> > >>> [2]
> > https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> > lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hello,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> > the
> > >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> > >>> terrible
> > >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > >>>> messing up
> > >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> > sent
> > >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> > know
> > >>>> what it is happening
> > >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> > >>> messages
> > >>>> for a given thread
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> > tool
> > >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > alternatives
> > >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > >>>> different).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > >>> organization (
> > >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
> > can
> > >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> > it's
> > >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> > for
> > >>>> everyone.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ---
> > >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Zoran Regvart
> > >>>
> >
--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
So I've created a new Zulip organization for testing purposes here:
https://camel-test.zulipchat.com (I've named it camel-test as there's an
option to import gitter chats but can be done only for new organization)
Anyone should be able to join using github/gitlab/google, by mail or with
an invitation.
I've also had some discussion with the Zulip team as well as other teams
using Zulip and I can confirm that it is possible to request a standard
plan for open source so we can get rid of the message history issue.
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
>
> https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
>
> “Free hosting at zulip.com.
> The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s commercial
> offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in supporting free
> and open source software: development projects, foundations, meetups,
> hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure whether
> your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.”
>
> zoran
> --
> Sent from mobile
>
> > On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Luca,
> > are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read that
> as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
> >
> > zoran
> > --
> > Sent from mobile
> >
> >> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Luca Burgazzoli
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Cameleers,
> >>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
> >>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> >>>
> >>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
> >>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
> >>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
> >> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it
> wrong ?
> >>
> >>
> >>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
> >>>
> >>> zoran
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> >>> [2]
> https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> the
> >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> >>> terrible
> >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >>>>
> >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> >>>> messing up
> >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> sent
> >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> know
> >>>> what it is happening
> >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> >>> messages
> >>>> for a given thread
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> tool
> >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> alternatives
> >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> >>>> different).
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> >>> organization (
> >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
> can
> >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> it's
> >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> for
> >>>> everyone.
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
> >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Zoran Regvart
> >>>
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>.
Never mind, found the answer in the second link you posted:
https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
“Free hosting at zulip.com.
The hosting is supported by (and is identical to) zulip.com’s commercial offerings. This offer extends to any community involved in supporting free and open source software: development projects, foundations, meetups, hackathons, conference committees, and more. If you’re not sure whether your organization qualifies, send us an email at support@zulip.com.”
zoran
--
Sent from mobile
> On 21. Aug 2020, at 11:18, Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Luca,
> are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read that as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
>
> zoran
> --
> Sent from mobile
>
>> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ---
>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>
>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Cameleers,
>>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
>>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
>>>
>>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
>>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
>>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
>>>
>>>
>> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
>> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it wrong ?
>>
>>
>>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
>>>
>>> zoran
>>>
>>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
>>> [2] https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
>>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>>> terrible
>>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>>
>>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>>> messing up
>>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
>>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
>>>> what it is happening
>>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>>> messages
>>>> for a given thread
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
>>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
>>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>>> different).
>>>>
>>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>>> organization (
>>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
>>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
>>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Zoran Regvart
>>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>.
Hi Luca,
are you referring to “Funds the Zulip open source project“? I read that as “it provides funding to Zulip project”.
zoran
--
Sent from mobile
> On 21. Aug 2020, at 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Cameleers,
>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
>>
>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
>>
>>
> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it wrong ?
>
>
>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
>>
>> zoran
>>
>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
>> [2] https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>> terrible
>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>
>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>> messing up
>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
>>> what it is happening
>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>> messages
>>> for a given thread
>>>
>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>> different).
>>>
>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>> organization (
>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
>>> everyone.
>>>
>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zoran Regvart
>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
There's some information [¹] about what it is supported and what it is
coming, like support for search engine
[1] https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 10:47 AM Alex Dettinger <al...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> No strong opinion about which one is the best.
> However, I find it interesting that gitter conversations could be included
> in search engine results (at least google).
> However, I don't know if we would have this with Zulip or Slack.
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 10:11 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Maybe it would be great to have a test period of zulip.
> >
> > I never used it, so, I can’t say if it’s good or not.
> >
> > So, maybe experimenting a bit to have feedback would be great.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > > Le 21 août 2020 à 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a
> > écrit :
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Cameleers,
> > >> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
> > >> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> > >>
> > >> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
> > >> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
> > >> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
> > >>
> > >>
> > > It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source
> projects
> > > according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it
> > wrong ?
> > >
> > >
> > >> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
> > >>
> > >> zoran
> > >>
> > >> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> > >> [2]
> > https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <
> lburgazzoli@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello,
> > >>>
> > >>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> > the
> > >>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> > >> terrible
> > >>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > >>>
> > >>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > >>> messing up
> > >>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> sent
> > >>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> > know
> > >>> what it is happening
> > >>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > >>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> > >> messages
> > >>> for a given thread
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> > tool
> > >>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > alternatives
> > >>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > >>> different).
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > >>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > >> organization (
> > >>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
> can
> > >>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> it's
> > >>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> > for
> > >>> everyone.
> > >>>
> > >>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ---
> > >>> Luca Burgazzoli
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Zoran Regvart
> > >>
> >
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Alex Dettinger <al...@gmail.com>.
No strong opinion about which one is the best.
However, I find it interesting that gitter conversations could be included
in search engine results (at least google).
However, I don't know if we would have this with Zulip or Slack.
On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 10:11 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>
wrote:
> Maybe it would be great to have a test period of zulip.
>
> I never used it, so, I can’t say if it’s good or not.
>
> So, maybe experimenting a bit to have feedback would be great.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> > Le 21 août 2020 à 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Cameleers,
> >> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
> >> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
> >>
> >> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
> >> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
> >> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
> >>
> >>
> > It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
> > according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it
> wrong ?
> >
> >
> >> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
> >>
> >> zoran
> >>
> >> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> >> [2]
> https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> the
> >>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> >> terrible
> >>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >>>
> >>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> >>> messing up
> >>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> >>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> know
> >>> what it is happening
> >>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> >>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> >> messages
> >>> for a given thread
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> tool
> >>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> alternatives
> >>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> >>> different).
> >>>
> >>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> >>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> >> organization (
> >>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> >>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> >>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> for
> >>> everyone.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Luca Burgazzoli
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zoran Regvart
> >>
>
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Maybe it would be great to have a test period of zulip.
I never used it, so, I can’t say if it’s good or not.
So, maybe experimenting a bit to have feedback would be great.
Regards
JB
> Le 21 août 2020 à 10:07, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Cameleers,
>> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
>> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
>>
>> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
>> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
>> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
>>
>>
> It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
> according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it wrong ?
>
>
>> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
>>
>> zoran
>>
>> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
>> [2] https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>> terrible
>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>
>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>> messing up
>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
>>> what it is happening
>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>> messages
>>> for a given thread
>>>
>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>> different).
>>>
>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>> organization (
>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
>>> everyone.
>>>
>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zoran Regvart
>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:23 PM Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com> wrote:
> Hi Cameleers,
> I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
> a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
>
> I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
> on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
> source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
>
>
It looks like that zulip cloud standard is free for open source projects
according to the FAQs https://zulipchat.com/plans or I'm reading it wrong ?
> We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
>
> zoran
>
> [1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
> [2] https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> terrible
> > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >
> > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > messing up
> > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> > what it is happening
> > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> messages
> > for a given thread
> >
> > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > different).
> >
> > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> organization (
> > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> > everyone.
> >
> > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
>
> --
> Zoran Regvart
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Zoran Regvart <zo...@regvart.com>.
Hi Cameleers,
I also think Gitter is a bit hard to follow, especially when there are
a lot of messages flowing by (reminds me of IRC).
I do wonder how Zulip would be set up, I don't see an OpenSource plan
on zulipchat.com[1] and I don't think it's good practice for an open
source community to lose messages. Gitter offers unlimited history[2].
We could try to ask INFRA to provide a Zulip service Camel/ASF wide.
zoran
[1] https://zulipchat.com/plans/
[2] https://gitter.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202169471-Message-history
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:12 PM Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
--
Zoran Regvart
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
Yes but you either need to use a Google account or you need to have an @
apache.org mail address or get an invitation, not a huge deal but having
the option to join with github/gitlab is IMHO a good thing.
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:18 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Anyone can join now afair.
>
> Anyway, for sure gitter is not convenient IMHO, the UI is horrible and the
> iOS/Android clients are so so.
>
> We use Slack in bunch of Apache project and it’s good enough to me.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> > Le 20 août 2020 à 14:14, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a
> écrit :
> >
> > The main reason not to use Slack - IMHO - is that is not straightforward
> to
> > join using one of the account most of the people already have
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:36 PM Francois Papon <
> francois.papon@openobject.fr>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Why not using the ASF Slack workspace?
> >>
> >> There is an existing Camel channel.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> François
> >> fpapon@apache.org
> >>
> >> Le 20/08/2020 à 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli a écrit :
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> the
> >>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> >> terrible
> >>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >>>
> >>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> >>> messing up
> >>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> >>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> know
> >>> what it is happening
> >>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> >>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> >> messages
> >>> for a given thread
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> tool
> >>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> alternatives
> >>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> >>> different).
> >>>
> >>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> >>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> >> organization (
> >>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> >>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> >>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> for
> >>> everyone.
> >>>
> >>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Luca Burgazzoli
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi,
Anyone can join now afair.
Anyway, for sure gitter is not convenient IMHO, the UI is horrible and the iOS/Android clients are so so.
We use Slack in bunch of Apache project and it’s good enough to me.
Regards
JB
> Le 20 août 2020 à 14:14, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> The main reason not to use Slack - IMHO - is that is not straightforward to
> join using one of the account most of the people already have
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:36 PM Francois Papon <fr...@openobject.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Why not using the ASF Slack workspace?
>>
>> There is an existing Camel channel.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> François
>> fpapon@apache.org
>>
>> Le 20/08/2020 à 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli a écrit :
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>> terrible
>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>
>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>> messing up
>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
>>> what it is happening
>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>> messages
>>> for a given thread
>>>
>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>> different).
>>>
>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>> organization (
>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
>>> everyone.
>>>
>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>>
>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>.
The main reason not to use Slack - IMHO - is that is not straightforward to
join using one of the account most of the people already have
---
Luca Burgazzoli
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:36 PM Francois Papon <fr...@openobject.fr>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Why not using the ASF Slack workspace?
>
> There is an existing Camel channel.
>
> regards,
>
> François
> fpapon@apache.org
>
> Le 20/08/2020 à 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli a écrit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> terrible
> > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >
> > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > messing up
> > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> > what it is happening
> > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> messages
> > for a given thread
> >
> > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > different).
> >
> > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> organization (
> > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> > everyone.
> >
> > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Francois Papon <fr...@openobject.fr>.
Hi,
Why not using the ASF Slack workspace?
There is an existing Camel channel.
regards,
François
fpapon@apache.org
Le 20/08/2020 à 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Peter Palaga <pp...@redhat.com>.
+1 for Zulip
-1 for Slack
-1 for Gitter
Thanks,
-- Peter
On 20/08/2020 13:12, Luca Burgazzoli wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi,
Personal standpoint is … personal ;) Personally I hate gitter ;)
About the way of joining The-ASF Slack, I remember INFRA change the policy. I think we can always ask for infra to "open join".
Regards
JB
> Le 20 août 2020 à 14:48, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hello JB,
>
> Slack is not usable at all for me and this is a personal feeling.
>
> Other reason is the need of using a google or apache.org account, while you
> should be able to join with github or gitlab or whatever.
>
> Il giorno gio 20 ago 2020 alle ore 14:42 Jean-Baptiste Onofre <
> jb@nanthrax.net> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi Andrea,
>>
>> What are your arguments for -1 about Slack ? Same as Luca ?
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>>> Le 20 août 2020 à 14:06, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>> +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
>>>
>>> Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
>>>> that's a quite good suggestion.
>>>> i have been using slack a lot.
>>>> i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is
>> an
>>>> improvement. i don,t know.
>>>>
>>>> worth trying.
>>>>
>>>> just my 2 cents.
>>>>
>>>> Onder
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Luca!
>>>>>
>>>>> +1 for Zulip.
>>>>> Have experience to use it in Infinispan
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Dmitry Volodin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
>>>> the
>>>>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>>>>> terrible
>>>>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>>>>> messing up
>>>>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
>> sent
>>>>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
>>>> know
>>>>>> what it is happening
>>>>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>>>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>>>>> messages
>>>>>> for a given thread
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
>>>> tool
>>>>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
>>>> alternatives
>>>>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>>>>> different).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>>>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>>>>>> organization (
>>>>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
>> can
>>>>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
>> it's
>>>>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
>>>> for
>>>>>> everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
Hello JB,
Slack is not usable at all for me and this is a personal feeling.
Other reason is the need of using a google or apache.org account, while you
should be able to join with github or gitlab or whatever.
Il giorno gio 20 ago 2020 alle ore 14:42 Jean-Baptiste Onofre <
jb@nanthrax.net> ha scritto:
> Hi Andrea,
>
> What are your arguments for -1 about Slack ? Same as Luca ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> > Le 20 août 2020 à 14:06, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> > +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
> >
> > Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
> >> that's a quite good suggestion.
> >> i have been using slack a lot.
> >> i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is
> an
> >> improvement. i don,t know.
> >>
> >> worth trying.
> >>
> >> just my 2 cents.
> >>
> >> Onder
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Luca!
> >>>
> >>> +1 for Zulip.
> >>> Have experience to use it in Infinispan
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Dmitry Volodin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello,
> >>>>
> >>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> >> the
> >>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> >>> terrible
> >>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >>>>
> >>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> >>>> messing up
> >>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> sent
> >>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> >> know
> >>>> what it is happening
> >>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> >>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> >>> messages
> >>>> for a given thread
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> >> tool
> >>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> >> alternatives
> >>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> >>>> different).
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> >>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> >>>> organization (
> >>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
> can
> >>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> it's
> >>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> >> for
> >>>> everyone.
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
> >>>> Luca Burgazzoli
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofre <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Andrea,
What are your arguments for -1 about Slack ? Same as Luca ?
Regards
JB
> Le 20 août 2020 à 14:06, Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
>
> Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
>> that's a quite good suggestion.
>> i have been using slack a lot.
>> i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is an
>> improvement. i don,t know.
>>
>> worth trying.
>>
>> just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Onder
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Luca!
>>>
>>> +1 for Zulip.
>>> Have experience to use it in Infinispan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dmitry Volodin
>>>
>>>
>>> чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
>> the
>>>> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>>> terrible
>>>> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>>>>
>>>> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>>>> messing up
>>>> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
>>>> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
>> know
>>>> what it is happening
>>>> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>>>> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>>> messages
>>>> for a given thread
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
>> tool
>>>> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
>> alternatives
>>>> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>>>> different).
>>>>
>>>> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>>>> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>>>> organization (
>>>> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
>>>> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
>>>> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
>> for
>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
Anyway the main concern for me is how to follow every possible channel.
It's already hard now
Il gio 20 ago 2020, 14:09 Djordje Bajić <dj...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> On Gitter is very hard to follow what people are writing. *
>
>
> Sorry for the spam, accidentally hit enter.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:08 PM Djordje Bajić <dj...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1 Zulip.
> >
> > On Gitter is very hard to follow what
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:06 PM Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
> >>
> >> Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
> >> > that's a quite good suggestion.
> >> > i have been using slack a lot.
> >> > i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is
> >> an
> >> > improvement. i don,t know.
> >> >
> >> > worth trying.
> >> >
> >> > just my 2 cents.
> >> >
> >> > Onder
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi Luca!
> >> > >
> >> > > +1 for Zulip.
> >> > > Have experience to use it in Infinispan
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Best regards,
> >> > > Dmitry Volodin
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lburgazzoli@gmail.com
> >:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hello,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter
> on
> >> > the
> >> > > > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> >> > > terrible
> >> > > > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages
> are
> >> > > > messing up
> >> > > > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> >> sent
> >> > > > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't
> actually
> >> > know
> >> > > > what it is happening
> >> > > > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> >> > > > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> >> > > messages
> >> > > > for a given thread
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with
> the
> >> > tool
> >> > > > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> >> > alternatives
> >> > > > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> >> > > > different).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> >> > > > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> >> > > > organization (
> >> > > > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so
> you
> >> can
> >> > > > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> >> it's
> >> > > > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be
> optimal
> >> > for
> >> > > > everyone.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ---
> >> > > > Luca Burgazzoli
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Đorđe Bajić
> >
>
>
> --
> - Đorđe Bajić
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Djordje Bajić <dj...@gmail.com>.
On Gitter is very hard to follow what people are writing. *
Sorry for the spam, accidentally hit enter.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:08 PM Djordje Bajić <dj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 Zulip.
>
> On Gitter is very hard to follow what
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:06 PM Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
>>
>> Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
>> > that's a quite good suggestion.
>> > i have been using slack a lot.
>> > i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is
>> an
>> > improvement. i don,t know.
>> >
>> > worth trying.
>> >
>> > just my 2 cents.
>> >
>> > Onder
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Luca!
>> > >
>> > > +1 for Zulip.
>> > > Have experience to use it in Infinispan
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Best regards,
>> > > Dmitry Volodin
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
>> > >
>> > > > Hello,
>> > > >
>> > > > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
>> > the
>> > > > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
>> > > terrible
>> > > > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>> > > >
>> > > > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
>> > > > messing up
>> > > > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
>> sent
>> > > > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
>> > know
>> > > > what it is happening
>> > > > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
>> > > > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
>> > > messages
>> > > > for a given thread
>> > > >
>> > > > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
>> > tool
>> > > > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
>> > alternatives
>> > > > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
>> > > > different).
>> > > >
>> > > > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
>> > > > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
>> > > > organization (
>> > > > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
>> can
>> > > > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
>> it's
>> > > > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
>> > for
>> > > > everyone.
>> > > >
>> > > > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ---
>> > > > Luca Burgazzoli
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> - Đorđe Bajić
>
--
- Đorđe Bajić
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Djordje Bajić <dj...@gmail.com>.
+1 Zulip.
On Gitter is very hard to follow what
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:06 PM Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
>
> Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
> > that's a quite good suggestion.
> > i have been using slack a lot.
> > i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is an
> > improvement. i don,t know.
> >
> > worth trying.
> >
> > just my 2 cents.
> >
> > Onder
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Luca!
> > >
> > > +1 for Zulip.
> > > Have experience to use it in Infinispan
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Dmitry Volodin
> > >
> > >
> > > чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> > the
> > > > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> > > terrible
> > > > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > > >
> > > > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > > > messing up
> > > > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you
> sent
> > > > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> > know
> > > > what it is happening
> > > > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > > > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> > > messages
> > > > for a given thread
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> > tool
> > > > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> > alternatives
> > > > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > > > different).
> > > >
> > > > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > > > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > > > organization (
> > > > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you
> can
> > > > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know
> it's
> > > > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> > for
> > > > everyone.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
- Đorđe Bajić
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Andrea Cosentino <an...@gmail.com>.
+1 for zulip, -1 for Slack.
Il gio 20 ago 2020, 13:38 Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org> ha scritto:
> Hi,
>
> To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
> that's a quite good suggestion.
> i have been using slack a lot.
> i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is an
> improvement. i don,t know.
>
> worth trying.
>
> just my 2 cents.
>
> Onder
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Luca!
> >
> > +1 for Zulip.
> > Have experience to use it in Infinispan
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Dmitry Volodin
> >
> >
> > чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on
> the
> > > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> > terrible
> > > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> > >
> > > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > > messing up
> > > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> > > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually
> know
> > > what it is happening
> > > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> > messages
> > > for a given thread
> > >
> > > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the
> tool
> > > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some
> alternatives
> > > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > > different).
> > >
> > > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > > organization (
> > > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> > > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> > > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal
> for
> > > everyone.
> > >
> > > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > >
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Onder SEZGIN <on...@apache.org>.
Hi,
To be honest i am a bit lost with gitter. i can not really follow.
that's a quite good suggestion.
i have been using slack a lot.
i tried zulip quite a while ago when i did not like but maybe there is an
improvement. i don,t know.
worth trying.
just my 2 cents.
Onder
On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:31 PM Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Luca!
>
> +1 for Zulip.
> Have experience to use it in Infinispan
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Dmitry Volodin
>
>
> чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> > various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite
> terrible
> > for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
> >
> > - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> > messing up
> > - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> > take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> > what it is happening
> > - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> > - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new
> messages
> > for a given thread
> >
> > I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> > I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> > (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> > different).
> >
> > I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> > https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> > organization (
> > camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> > easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> > streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> > everyone.
> >
> > If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
>
Re: Alternatives to gitter
Posted by Dmitry Volodin <dm...@gmail.com>.
Hi Luca!
+1 for Zulip.
Have experience to use it in Infinispan
--
Best regards,
Dmitry Volodin
чт, 20 авг. 2020 г. в 14:12, Luca Burgazzoli <lb...@gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
> Over the past months I've been trying to be more active on gitter on the
> various camel projects and overall the user experience was quite terrible
> for me (in particular when using the mobile client), as example:
>
> - threads are not shown properly on the iOS client thus messages are
> messing up
> - messages are extremely slow to load and sometime the message you sent
> take quite long to be visible even on your end so you don't actually know
> what it is happening
> - messages keep being marked as unread even if you did read them
> - sometimes you need to close/reopen the thread sidebar to see new messages
> for a given thread
>
> I don't know if it is only me but because of my frustration with the tool
> I'd like to know if anyone is interested in evaluating some alternatives
> (please note that we DON'T necessarily need to switch to something
> different).
>
> I'd personally would like to suggest to try out Zulip (
> https://zulipchat.com/) as it allow us to have an independent
> organization (
> camel.zulipchat.com) and to login with github/gitter/google so you can
> easily join without having to fill gazillion of details but I know it's
> streams and topic way of organizing conversations may not be optimal for
> everyone.
>
> If anyone has suggestions, let discuss here.
>
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>