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Posted to dev@clerezza.apache.org by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2011/05/20 14:34:47 UTC
[jira] [Created] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
GraphNode provider service
--------------------------
Key: CLEREZZA-540
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
Project: Clerezza
Issue Type: Improvement
Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13041124#comment-13041124 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
If this package were just standing there used only by your applications then this would not be a problem, and the javadoc information would be ok.
But looking at the dependent issues such as CLEREZZA-544, the GraphNodeProvider will be used directly by the CallbackRenderer, the login module, and other places it seems. So this is not just a package that is for a specific use case. It is meant to be used in the core modules. It is then also very misleadingly named, because it is not just a GraphNodeProvider, but at least a AuthoritativeGraphNodeProvider, and then according to some notion of authority that is not transparent at all.
Now who controlls the content-graph? How big can that become? But that is not the only graph that gets shipped along: The following get sent too (with the number of triples in an new instance of ZZ):
- <urn:x-localinstance:/documentation.graph> 1002 triples
- <urn:x-localinstance:/config.graph> 176 triples
- <urn:x-localinstance:/web-resources.graph> 621 triples
- <urn:x-localinstance:/enrichment.graph> 0 triples
You can test this with the following code:
zz> import org.apache.clerezza.platform.graphnodeprovider._
zz> val gnp = $[GraphNodeProvider]
zz> val tbl = gnp.get(new UriRef("http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card#i"))
zz> tbl.getGraph.size
res0: Int = 1878
If I get Tim Berners Lee's Graph on the command line I find
$ rapper http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card | wc
rapper: Parsing URI http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card with parser rdfxml
rapper: Serializing with serializer ntriples
rapper: Parsing returned 78 triples
78 380 9978
So we get 1700 triples back more, containing documentation, and other stuff. What if one documentation package uses Tim Berners Less URL as an example, and adds rdf tying him to some imaginary feature? Can one now hack the system by adding documentation?
WHAT CAN BE DONE:
---------------------------------
The issue is to understand what problem this component is trying to solve. It seems that if we look there we may well find that something a lot simpler could be workable here.
The idea of a graph node provider seems a good one, but perhaps if the user could ask for a number of graphs and get their union then the user could specify what he things to be trustworthy.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Reopened] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Henry Story reopened CLEREZZA-540:
----------------------------------
This does not solve a problem I had. It currently has a mysteriously bad smell to it this provider, as it seems to be completely adhock.
If I get the URL <http://heddley.com/edd/foaf.rdf#edd> it returns me with a graph with over 1000 triples, the whole content of the database it seems - and an empty database btw, freshly installed.
The same URL dereferenced from the web just contains 157 triples. If I want to show someone what the content of the remote graph is, I don't want them to see the content of every other graph. Now someone may find this userful. But this does not seem to be what it set itself out to be. I quote "implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource. ". So this is either a bug in the implementation or a bug in the description of this issue. In either case I don't think it can be closed.
As far as the smell goes: the point of replacing the WebIdCache was to push that into the TcProvider. It was quite simple to understand. Here there are a huge number of local TcProvider wrappers that are used, where TcProvider itself iteratres through a stack of providers. So here we seem to have a completely ad hock solution to what was the WebCache.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13039663#comment-13039663 ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür commented on CLEREZZA-540:
---------------------------------------------
Which point against the issue hasn't been answered, I see olny the one about the many if-then statement which I didn't understand ans thus asked twice for you to specify the problem.
To your new questions:
- "So my issue is how does this service know what is authortitative about some resource?"
The javadoc of the service specifies this quite clearly. The content graph is considered authoritative for all resources, the public user graphs for resources on a local-instance with a path-section starting with /user/{username}, for remote resources additionally the triples you get by dereferencing that resource. (but isn't this exactly what I already said on 23/May/11 07:12 ? )
- "I gave a URI about someone on the Web and I get a 10 times more information back than he has in his foaf file. Is Clerezza so powerful that it can deduce new relations without looking at the world?"
yes, the content graphs contains facts taken for granted when it comes to describe the world. If in other circumstances the difinition of authoritative above is not satisfactory, wehy not open a new issue?
- "What are the principles that will guide the evolution of this component?"
It provide a useful functionality as it is now. As for any component the evolution will be driven by the need for functionality and the striving for an elegant api.
What do you think has to be done for this issue to be closable? Please indicate why you think the point you mention cannot be addressed by new issues.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037413#comment-13037413 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
I think I meant the WebProxy which has been deleted here and moved elsewhere.
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/clerezza/trunk/parent/rdf.storage.web/src/main/scala/WebProxy.scala?view=markup&pathrev=1124453
So clearly this is something that has arisen out of the need for a WebProxy. The WebProxy was made into a TcProvider, in issue
CLEREZZA-531 after a long debate linked to there on what the names of graphs should be. It seems that this ad-hoc graph naming is leading to this spagetti monster here which checks the following providers:
- UserManager: the only implementation of UserManager requires a TcManager
- WebIdGraphsService: also requires a TcManager
- PlatformConfig: requires TcManager
- ContentGraphProvider: requires TcManager
- TcManager
So it looks like each time we create a new object type we are going to increase the if-then statements in this class.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13039648#comment-13039648 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
So my issue is how does this service know what is authortitative about some resource? I gave a URI about someone on the Web and I get a 10 times more information back than he has in his foaf file. Is Clerezza so powerful that it can deduce new relations without looking at the world? What are the principles that will guide the evolution of this component?
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Closed] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür closed CLEREZZA-540.
---------------------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
It might not satisfy all possible needs, but it definitively is useful. Future issue may request addidtinal methos to which one can specify options on whom to trust. The default is:
- always tust the content graph
- for remote resource trust the graph you get by dereferencing the uri
- for resources in the user-uri space trust that user.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037428#comment-13037428 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
Anyway, either that or please give me back my WebProxy that was working ok for me. I have a bunch of code I need to keep rewriting all the time here.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Closed] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür closed CLEREZZA-540.
---------------------------------------
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Reopened] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Henry Story reopened CLEREZZA-540:
----------------------------------
This issue is not closed, the points made against it were not even answered.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037426#comment-13037426 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
You wrote at the top for this issue:
"Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource. "
I then spent one hour compiling things again, getting things to work, changing code, debugging, all happily looking forward to using this feature, only then to find that it does not do what you said it would above. It says "BaseGraph sources considered AUTHORITATIVE for that resource." Considered authoritative by whome? Ok, for some local resources I understand that mergers could be done but only in particular circumstances, otherwise it is going to get to be very difficult to understand what is going on. If you want graphs that are mergers of other graphs then there is work that has been done in that space such as the Work on Networked Graphs
http://blogs.oracle.com/bblfish/entry/opening_sesame_with_networked_graphs
But I don't consider node contexts to be the right solution at all. They are useful for sure, and I have used them recently happily. But that is not where one gets authoritative graphs from. Authoritative comes from Author, ie creator of, and that can only be aplied to a graph or sets of graphs.
Anyway I descrive above a URI I fetched, and you give me 10 times more resources back. I don't want those! They are not authoritative.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Henry Story (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037414#comment-13037414 ]
Henry Story commented on CLEREZZA-540:
--------------------------------------
It is claimed this issue solves CLEREZZA-533 that the TcProvider does not dereference a URI with a hash, but it does not because one now gets back a lot more triples than one would want, possibly merging trust boundaries.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Closed] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür closed CLEREZZA-540.
---------------------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037418#comment-13037418 ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür commented on CLEREZZA-540:
---------------------------------------------
Henry, you reopened CLEREZZA-533 because you wanted in this issue something else to be addressed as the issue adn the patch address. Now this issue could solve part of your needs, to me it seems a very usefull service and the fact that functionality currently implemented in different parts of the platform can be delegated seem to confirm this. It may not satisfy all your wishe and you're welcome to suggest new features. But I believe the issue with the scope described in the issue and even slightly extended in the implementation and its documentation come in handy and that it is thus a valuable contribution to clerezza. So the fact that it doesn't satisfy all your needs is no reason to dismiss the resolution.
The number of triples are no indication of a problem, a GraphNode is not a collection of triples, it is a resource from which you can recursively explore the value of (inverse) properties. If you want a graph containing a description of this resource as Graph you should call the getNodeContext method.
As for the problem you mention I don't see it, could you specify the situations in which you'd need to create if-the statements?
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Commented] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13037765#comment-13037765 ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür commented on CLEREZZA-540:
---------------------------------------------
To your comments:
"But that is not where one gets authoritative graphs from. Authoritative comes from Author, ie creator of, and that can only be aplied to a graph or sets of graphs."
This is not about "authoritative graphs", but about authoritative resource description. You're not the author of yourself, so while we consider what you say about <you> as authoritative, we also trust what the content graph says about <you>
"Anyway I descrive above a URI I fetched, and you give me 10 times more resources back. I don't want those! They are not authoritative." You allway get exactly one graphnode, that after six degree of separation you might reach every human on the planet and after eight every atom of the universe is not a bug. If your code tries to explore every reachable resource your code isn't appropriate for an open world.
You didn't answer my question regarding your claim about if-then statements needed to be added.
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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[jira] [Resolved] (CLEREZZA-540) GraphNode provider service
Posted by "Reto Bachmann-Gmür (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Reto Bachmann-Gmür resolved CLEREZZA-540.
-----------------------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
Added a minimal first implementation. It contains code dublications from WebId Services that will be removed with CLEREZZA-543
> GraphNode provider service
> --------------------------
>
> Key: CLEREZZA-540
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLEREZZA-540
> Project: Clerezza
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Reporter: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Assignee: Reto Bachmann-Gmür
> Labels: platform, rdf
>
> Implement a platform service that returns GraphNodes for URIs. The GraphNode is the resource identified by that uri with as BaseGraph sources considered authoritative for that resource.
> Note: it ois left to possible subsequent issues to connect this to the ability manually refresh caches pertinent to a resource on demand.
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