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Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org> on 2002/04/06 16:58:43 UTC
site redesign
everyone,
I've committed a visual redesign of the
website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
what's there is a html mockup and an
anakia site.vsl file, along with some test
code to verify the vsl file actually
compiles.
I tried to change the .xsl files cocoon uses,
but gave up after an hour of reading about
how it works and being no nearer a solution.
In my evaluation, cocoon is something that
can be used to build arbitrily large sites
(and a wonderful package it is!), not
something very suitable for small sites, like
we have.
Since anakia is not what we use for our site,
I'm not throwing this design up for a vote,
as I don't have time to figure out how to get
it all to work with cocoon. It would be very
nice if someone proficient with cocoon could
do so, and I'm very willing to provide
assistance.
Note that the mockup html file has a different
menu structure from the current site. Please
pay no attention to this; while I do think we
might need some re-ordering, this is not
part of the proposal at hand.
Also, I've tried to incorporate all previous
comments. The breadcrumb trail is generated
using javascript, hence it produces funny
results when used locally. The fix is to
either patch anakia or generate is using cocoon;
I suspect cocoon has some smart way to do this,
I don't know where to find it though.
Finally, I am moving some of my own projects
over to maven, which I found works rather
nicely. I find myself in favor of moving
avalon to it as well, so if there is suddenly
overwhelming support for that, we could also
not migrate the xsl files. (just a thought).
cheers,
- Leo Simons
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:06, Leo Simons wrote:
> > On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:58, Leo Simons wrote:
> > > I've committed a visual redesign of the
> > > website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
> > > what's there is a html mockup
> >
> > I like the look. Only one problem though. The LHS gets cut off
> > too short. ie
> > I get "Getting Star" displayed rather than "Getting Started". It
> > could be my
> > browser playing up though.
>
> Could you tell me browser and os so I can try
> and reproduce the problem?
Linux, Konquror 2.2.2-1 using default renderer
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Cheers,
Pete
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Why does everyone always overgeneralize?
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
> From: "Leo Simons" <ls...@multimia.com>
>
> > From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
> >
> > > I will create a Anakia .vsl file, while
> > > Nicola will update the cocoon stylesheets.
> >
> > Ok, now I'm ready.
> >
> > Just a few questions before I start:
> > 1) Are you ok to use a cent (part of centipede) to generate the
> > documentation?
>
> I'm +1, as long as it is backwards compatible with 'normal'
> cocoon.
Yes.
> > 2)Is it ok to upgrade to latest document DTD in Forrest?
>
> I'd like to remain compatible with anakia. So I'm guessing
> that would be a no.
Does this means that Anakia checks for a specific DTD?
The only incompatible changes are the s1234 to section, but it should be
doable with a template.
> > 3)Is the vsl in the CVS final?
>
> no. It is not even a proposal yet; I want to have it all working
> with cocoon before requesting votes. IE I don't want votes about
> changing the documenation build system, just about the redesign
> (Which everyone seems to like, though).
Ok.
> > 4) Is there a compelling reason to do the double
> > transformation to docbook
> > and then to html?
>
> no, except see below.
Ok.
> > 5)What are your specific needs other than generating a site?
>
> we would like to generate PDF files as well, and UML diagrams,
> and dependency information, etc. Generating PDFs might be easier
> when we have docbook support. I don't know, though.
Well, as for PDFs, we are discussing-working to make a single pdf file from
the site, I guess you might like it.
We decided in Forrest that the Docbook stylesheets were so crappy that it
was easier making our own on he much simpler document dtd.
UML diagrams are in the pipeline for Centipede.
As for other test results, Centipede also makes javadocs, jdepend results
and junit test results available in the doco.
It would be really cool to make a Centipede cent out of your dependency
checking...
but of course I'm talking of things that only I know for now, we will
continue this when the documentation is there ;-)
As for the skin, I'll do it today for Centipede and commit it in the POI
project, so you can easily see how it works.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <ls...@multimia.com>.
> From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
>
> > I will create a Anakia .vsl file, while
> > Nicola will update the cocoon stylesheets.
>
> Ok, now I'm ready.
>
> Just a few questions before I start:
> 1) Are you ok to use a cent (part of centipede) to generate the
> documentation?
I'm +1, as long as it is backwards compatible with 'normal'
cocoon.
> 2)Is it ok to upgrade to latest document DTD in Forrest?
I'd like to remain compatible with anakia. So I'm guessing
that would be a no.
> 3)Is the vsl in the CVS final?
no. It is not even a proposal yet; I want to have it all working
with cocoon before requesting votes. IE I don't want votes about
changing the documenation build system, just about the redesign
(Which everyone seems to like, though).
> 4) Is there a compelling reason to do the double
> transformation to docbook
> and then to html?
no, except see below.
> 5)What are your specific needs other than generating a site?
we would like to generate PDF files as well, and UML diagrams,
and dependency information, etc. Generating PDFs might be easier
when we have docbook support. I don't know, though.
> BTW, I'm writing the docos on Centipede now, it will be ready soon.
kool ;)
cheers,
- Leo
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
> I will create a Anakia .vsl file, while
> Nicola will update the cocoon stylesheets.
Ok, now I'm ready.
Just a few questions before I start:
1) Are you ok to use a cent (part of centipede) to generate the
documentation? Basically, it's just a build.xml that calls Cocoon, the
resources and the sitemap. This would make it easy to separate concerns and
have Centipede update-fix the documentation stuff. No change to the build is
needed, no need to use full Centipede, it's a no-brainer to invoke it "by
hand". I also remember that the Centipede Cocoon is especially tweaked in
configuration and regularly updated, and it's *much* faster than the one you
use.
2)Is it ok to upgrade to latest document DTD in Forrest? Basically it means
changing the DTD declarations and replacing s1|s2|s3|s4 to section.
3)Is the vsl in the CVS final?Remember that Centipede has skin support, and
the jakarta-enhanced-style, xml-apache, basic-html, and scarab-skin are
present, so you can easily see if you like other formats in the future (just
change a property).
4) Is there a compelling reason to do the double transformation to docbook
and then to html?
5)What are your specific needs other than generating a site?
BTW, I'm writing the docos on Centipede now, it will be ready soon.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
cancel that. It will be too much work, I'm afraid.
- Leo
> I have been looking at the style.tigris.org
> project. I will convert the proposed changes
> to be compatible, fix the last few bugs, then
> put it up for vote.
> Since the style.tigris.org stuff is a bit of
> a mess, this will take some time.
>
> You may ask, why? Mainly because it is a pain
> to support older "half-compliant" browsers like
> ns4.x, and the style people are doing a
> reasonable job on it. I could either steal
> their model and only use what I need, or instead
> give something back as well.
>
> I will create a Anakia .vsl file, while
> Nicola will update the cocoon stylesheets.
>
> cheers,
>
> - Leo
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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> <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I have been looking at the style.tigris.org
project. I will convert the proposed changes
to be compatible, fix the last few bugs, then
put it up for vote.
Since the style.tigris.org stuff is a bit of
a mess, this will take some time.
You may ask, why? Mainly because it is a pain
to support older "half-compliant" browsers like
ns4.x, and the style people are doing a
reasonable job on it. I could either steal
their model and only use what I need, or instead
give something back as well.
I will create a Anakia .vsl file, while
Nicola will update the cocoon stylesheets.
cheers,
- Leo
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
> On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:58, Leo Simons wrote:
> > I've committed a visual redesign of the
> > website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
> > what's there is a html mockup
>
> I like the look. Only one problem though. The LHS gets cut off
> too short. ie
> I get "Getting Star" displayed rather than "Getting Started". It
> could be my
> browser playing up though.
Could you tell me browser and os so I can try
and reproduce the problem?
thx,
- Leo
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 00:58, Leo Simons wrote:
> I've committed a visual redesign of the
> website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
> what's there is a html mockup
I like the look. Only one problem though. The LHS gets cut off too short. ie
I get "Getting Star" displayed rather than "Getting Started". It could be my
browser playing up though.
--
Cheers,
Pete
---------------------------------------------------
"It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we
cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our
responsibilities." -Josiah Stamp
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
I don't really get what this is about....
the important changes have to do with html and velocity
codes; I didn't do any java coding at all...?
and no, I'm pretty much finished. If you are talking
about changing the contents of the stuff, don't bother.
It's "phoney", to fill up space.
cheers,
- The Other Leo (confused)
> Looking good, I agree:
>
>
> Simons,
>
> just one trivial issue:
>
> package helloworld.impl.default;
> ^^^^^^^
>
> this will not compile as default is a reserved word.
> Suggest change to:
>
> package helloworld.impl.local;
>
> public class LocalHelloWorld implements HelloWorld {
> void sayHello(String greeting) {
> System.out.println("HelloWorld Greeting: " + greeting);
> }
> }
>
> I'm ready to do the change, but I do not know if you are still
> working on the files.
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Paul Hammant [mailto:Paul_Hammant@yahoo.com]
>
> 3) Code blocks. They go cente justified and narrow (which I do not
> like) See .
> http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/separation-of-interface
> -and-implementation.html
Looking good, I agree:
Simons,
just one trivial issue:
package helloworld.impl.default;
^^^^^^^
this will not compile as default is a reserved word.
Suggest change to:
package helloworld.impl.local;
public class LocalHelloWorld implements HelloWorld {
void sayHello(String greeting) {
System.out.println("HelloWorld Greeting: " + greeting);
}
}
I'm ready to do the change, but I do not know if you are still
working on the files.
/LS
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Leo,
>>2) Authors have gone ( I will forward diffs to you it you like), Peter
>>wants these at the botton anyway...
>>
>
>hum? There at the bottom...how come you are looking at something different
>from me???
>
Err, you cought me out ;-)
I LOL when I saw who was credited with authoring the framework front
page !!
>>3) Code blocks. They go cente justified and narrow (which I do not
>>like) See .
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/separation-of-interface
>>-and-implementation.html
>>I do not like this... have you fixed... ?
>>
>
>partially. If a code block has very long lines, it will still cause the
>page to break apart (as a guideline, code examples inline should wrap at,
>o, 60 or so chars to be out of the blue.
>
I was more concerned with short lines, they currently appear in the
middle of the page. A small thing and it sounds like you have fixed it.
- Paul
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RE: site redesign
Posted by Leo Simons <le...@apache.org>.
> 1) Indenting of the S2 - it seems to be in by about 2cms, I think it
> should be left justified with its paragraphs.
'kay. Will do.
> 2) Authors have gone ( I will forward diffs to you it you like), Peter
> wants these at the botton anyway...
hum? There at the bottom...how come you are looking at something different
from me???
> 3) Code blocks. They go cente justified and narrow (which I do not
> like) See .
> http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/separation-of-interface
> -and-implementation.html
> I do not like this... have you fixed... ?
partially. If a code block has very long lines, it will still cause the
page to break apart (as a guideline, code examples inline should wrap at,
o, 60 or so chars to be out of the blue.
We had discussion on jakarta-dev as well, and I don't think anyone has
figured out yet how to fix the prob.
greetz,
- Leo
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Leo,
Like it, like it, like it..
Small issues:
1) Indenting of the S2 - it seems to be in by about 2cms, I think it
should be left justified with its paragraphs.
2) Authors have gone ( I will forward diffs to you it you like), Peter
wants these at the botton anyway...
3) Code blocks. They go cente justified and narrow (which I do not
like) See .
http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/framework/separation-of-interface-and-implementation.html
I do not like this... have you fixed... ?
Regards,
- Paul
>everyone,
>
>I've committed a visual redesign of the
>website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
>what's there is a html mockup and an
>anakia site.vsl file, along with some test
>code to verify the vsl file actually
>compiles.
>
>I tried to change the .xsl files cocoon uses,
>but gave up after an hour of reading about
>how it works and being no nearer a solution.
>In my evaluation, cocoon is something that
>can be used to build arbitrily large sites
>(and a wonderful package it is!), not
>something very suitable for small sites, like
>we have.
>
>Since anakia is not what we use for our site,
>I'm not throwing this design up for a vote,
>as I don't have time to figure out how to get
>it all to work with cocoon. It would be very
>nice if someone proficient with cocoon could
>do so, and I'm very willing to provide
>assistance.
>
>Note that the mockup html file has a different
>menu structure from the current site. Please
>pay no attention to this; while I do think we
>might need some re-ordering, this is not
>part of the proposal at hand.
>
>Also, I've tried to incorporate all previous
>comments. The breadcrumb trail is generated
>using javascript, hence it produces funny
>results when used locally. The fix is to
>either patch anakia or generate is using cocoon;
>I suspect cocoon has some smart way to do this,
>I don't know where to find it though.
>
>Finally, I am moving some of my own projects
>over to maven, which I found works rather
>nicely. I find myself in favor of moving
>avalon to it as well, so if there is suddenly
>overwhelming support for that, we could also
>not migrate the xsl files. (just a thought).
>
>cheers,
>
>- Leo Simons
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
>
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Re: site redesign
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
From: "Leo Simons" <le...@apache.org>
> I've committed a visual redesign of the
> website in jakarta-avalon/src/proposal/site.
...
> I tried to change the .xsl files cocoon uses,
> but gave up after an hour of reading about
> how it works and being no nearer a solution.
> In my evaluation, cocoon is something that
> can be used to build arbitrily large sites
> (and a wonderful package it is!), not
> something very suitable for small sites, like
> we have.
>
> Since anakia is not what we use for our site,
> I'm not throwing this design up for a vote,
> as I don't have time to figure out how to get
> it all to work with cocoon. It would be very
> nice if someone proficient with cocoon could
> do so, and I'm very willing to provide
> assistance.
Ok, I'll do it.
I use Cocoon with the new interpreted sitemap in the new Krysalis Centipede
and have multiple skin support, so I might as well add the Avalon skin.
> Finally, I am moving some of my own projects
> over to maven, which I found works rather
> nicely. I find myself in favor of moving
> avalon to it as well, so if there is suddenly
> overwhelming support for that, we could also
> not migrate the xsl files. (just a thought).
We've just done a major overhaul of Krysalis Centipede and it gives you
basically all that Maven does and more.
It's modular, and you can add additional build features to the build with
centipede packages called cents.
We have now:
centipede.cent.jar (basic build and dist targets)
junit.cent.jar
jdepend.cent.jar
forrest.cent.jar (uses new doc DTD and fast interpreted Cocoon)
antidote.cent.jar
We are adding cents for spellchecking and UML diagrams.
ATM there is not much documentation, but it's used on Jakarta POI.
We are working with Forrest and Gump; the Centipede descriptor is an
enhanced Gump descriptor and can be used as such. When Forrest will be ready
(first version soon) all Centipede based sites will have automatic daily
publishing to the web server.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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