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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> on 2003/12/30 18:06:30 UTC
Moving up to JVM 1.4+
> This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net also.
> I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to using
> 1.4+ for new versions.
Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey on
server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve support for
JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it would be
a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the advantage of
1.4+ systems when available.
--- Noel
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by "Jeffrey D. Brekke" <jb...@wi.rr.com>.
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:44:49 +0100, Paul Libbrecht <pa...@activemath.org> said:
> Our current server (ActiveMath) is blocked entirely by JDK 1.4: it's
> a server with slightly too heavy memory requirements and the result
> is... OutOfMemoryError on most Unix-VMs if in JDK 1.4. (especially
> true on MacOSX, very frequent on Sun and Blackdown's on Linux).
> Hence the wish not to depend on this for libraries that we would
> take.
We've also been bitten by a 1.4.0 implementation of the jvm on Windows
and that has frozen us to some extent. This one was a killer for us:
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4779905.html
I understand this situation and hopefully we can provide some way to
still support pre-1.4 version if we even decide to start using
java.nio
> However, I wouldn't object the build of a jakarta-commons component
> to require JDK 1.4.
> Paul
> On 30-Dec-03, at 18:06 Uhr, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>>> This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in
>>> Commons/Net also. I say we leave the last release as 1.1
>>> compatible and move on to using 1.4+ for new versions.
>> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a
>> survey on server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to
>> preserve support for JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for
>> pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it would be a good idea to raise the
>> question on the user list?
>>
>> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the
>> advantage of 1.4+ systems when available.
>>
>> --- Noel
>>
>>
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=====================================================================
Jeffrey D. Brekke jbrekke@wi.rr.com
Wisconsin, USA brekke@apache.org
ekkerbj@yahoo.com
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@activemath.org>.
Our current server (ActiveMath) is blocked entirely by JDK 1.4: it's a
server with slightly too heavy memory requirements and the result is...
OutOfMemoryError on most Unix-VMs if in JDK 1.4. (especially true on
MacOSX, very frequent on Sun and Blackdown's on Linux).
Hence the wish not to depend on this for libraries that we would take.
However, I wouldn't object the build of a jakarta-commons component to
require JDK 1.4.
Paul
On 30-Dec-03, at 18:06 Uhr, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
>> This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net
>> also.
>> I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to using
>> 1.4+ for new versions.
>
> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey
> on
> server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve
> support for
> JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it
> would be
> a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
>
> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the
> advantage of
> 1.4+ systems when available.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
Quoting Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>:
> The block on 1.4 remains the big-iron webservers, like Websphere and
> Weblogic. 1.4 as a requirement is a long way off yet IMHO.
>
FWIW, one of the major roadblocks for the app server vendors was that J2EE 1.4
(which in turn requires J2SE 1.4) wasn't final until the end of November. It
is now, so you'll likely see the 1.4 versions of these app servers become
available (in addition to the ones that already exist).
Of course, that still doesn't mean people will upgrade in any particular hurry,
but at least it will be possible.
> Stephen
Craig
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@btopenworld.com>.
The block on 1.4 remains the big-iron webservers, like Websphere and
Weblogic. 1.4 as a requirement is a long way off yet IMHO.
Stephen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>
> > This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net
also.
> > I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to using
> > 1.4+ for new versions.
>
> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey on
> server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve support
for
> JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it would
be
> a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
>
> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the advantage
of
> 1.4+ systems when available.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by "Jeffrey D. Brekke" <jb...@wi.rr.com>.
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:06:30 -0500, "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> said:
>> This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in
>> Commons/Net also. I say we leave the last release as 1.1
>> compatible and move on to using 1.4+ for new versions.
> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a
> survey on server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to
> preserve support for JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4
> systems, perhaps it would be a good idea to raise the question on
> he user list?
I was also hoping to still provide some way to build a
pre-1.4.x version or something for those who need it. We can get a feel
for the commons/net users from polling the -user list as you suggest.
> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the
> advantage of 1.4+ systems when available.
Moving to 1.3.x as the minimum supported version would work also. I'd
like not to have multiple streams of development/builds, it just
complicates things.
> --- Noel
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--
=====================================================================
Jeffrey D. Brekke jbrekke@wi.rr.com
Wisconsin, USA brekke@apache.org
ekkerbj@yahoo.com
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@4quarters.com>.
On Dec 30, 2003, at 3:41 PM, David Graham wrote:
>
> --- "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
>>> This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net
>> also.
>>> I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to
>>> using
>>> 1.4+ for new versions.
>>
>> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey
>> on
>> server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve
>> support
>> for
>> JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it
>> would be
>> a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
>
> There will always be users that will complain when changing Java
> versions.
> The only semi-valid reason I've heard to not upgrade to 1.4 is that
> product X requires 1.3 and product X is expensive.
>
> IMO, if the component needs 1.4 then you should move to 1.4. The
> previous
> 1.3 compatible version of the component will still work after the
> change.
> Product X shouldn't stand in the way of innovation :-).
>
Don't forget that not all platforms have 1.4 or a mature 1.4 that
people trust. it too a while for apple to get 1.4 out to OS X - I
wouldn't use OS X in production of course, but it's my development
platform...
geir
> David
>
>>
>> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the
>> advantage
>> of
>> 1.4+ systems when available.
>>
>> --- Noel
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
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--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by Paul Libbrecht <pa...@activemath.org>.
On 30-Dec-03, at 22:08 Uhr, Phil Steitz wrote:
> David Graham wrote:
>> There will always be users that will complain when changing Java
>> versions.
>> The only semi-valid reason I've heard to not upgrade to 1.4 is that
>> product X requires 1.3 and product X is expensive.
>
> Where often "Product X" is a commerical J2EE container (see below) and
> what is "expensive" is both licensing and migrating to a later version
> or a different product.
Well, in our case, the problem is not the container... it's the VM
itself: it just doesn't run, period.
Presumably, one could interpret our problem as a lack of resources...
except such resources will never come...
But clearly, if there's a good reason to choose 1.4, no need to abandon
it.
(I wonder what can be a good reason, and I think it should be
justified, for example, I am not sure requiring JDK 1.4 is enough to
simply not have to include jaxp). So basically, before making such a
decision, I would invite people to discuss reasons...
Paul
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@steitz.com>.
David Graham wrote:
> There will always be users that will complain when changing Java versions.
> The only semi-valid reason I've heard to not upgrade to 1.4 is that
> product X requires 1.3 and product X is expensive.
Where often "Product X" is a commerical J2EE container (see below) and
what is "expensive" is both licensing and migrating to a later version or
a different product.
>
> IMO, if the component needs 1.4 then you should move to 1.4. The previous
> 1.3 compatible version of the component will still work after the change.
> Product X shouldn't stand in the way of innovation :-).
Agreed...sort of. We just need to keep in mind that *lots* of server-side
developers will not be able to use components that require 1.4 for some
time to come.
Here is a recent TSS survey of J2EE containers that shows jdk levels
supported by different containers:
http://www.theserverside.com/reviews/matrix.jsp
I know that IBM recently released WebSphere 5.1, including 1.4 support,
but previous versions require 1.3.
Phil
>
> David
>
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by di...@multitask.com.au.
David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com> wrote on 31/12/2003 07:41:31 AM:
>
> --- "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > > This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net
> > also.
> > > I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to
using
> > > 1.4+ for new versions.
> >
> > Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey
> > on
> > server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve
support
> > for
> > JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it
> > would be
> > a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
>
> There will always be users that will complain when changing Java
versions.
> The only semi-valid reason I've heard to not upgrade to 1.4 is that
> product X requires 1.3 and product X is expensive.
The real reason not to upgrade to 1.4 etc is that you cut down your user
base.
e.g. developers using WebSphere 4.x can't use your software.
> IMO, if the component needs 1.4 then you should move to 1.4. The
previous
> 1.3 compatible version of the component will still work after the
change.
> Product X shouldn't stand in the way of innovation :-).
--
dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/
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Re: Moving up to JVM 1.4+
Posted by David Graham <gr...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> > This has come up in regards to using some of java.nio in Commons/Net
> also.
> > I say we leave the last release as 1.1 compatible and move on to using
> > 1.4+ for new versions.
>
> Personally, I use JVM 1.4+, myself. However, everytime we do a survey
> on
> server-user, we get emphatic feedback from our users to preserve support
> for
> JVM 1.3.1. Before dropping support for pre-1.4 systems, perhaps it
> would be
> a good idea to raise the question on the user list?
There will always be users that will complain when changing Java versions.
The only semi-valid reason I've heard to not upgrade to 1.4 is that
product X requires 1.3 and product X is expensive.
IMO, if the component needs 1.4 then you should move to 1.4. The previous
1.3 compatible version of the component will still work after the change.
Product X shouldn't stand in the way of innovation :-).
David
>
> There are also ways to support pre-1.4 while still gaining the advantage
> of
> 1.4+ systems when available.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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>
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