You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@avalon.apache.org by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org> on 2002/11/18 09:24:56 UTC
Re: Mr Chairmain (provisional)...
As previously stated on this list, I'm forwarding all mail I get from
Avalon committers.
This one is from Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>, Date: Mon, 18
Nov 2002 05:04:35 +0000 (GMT).
Paul Hammant wrote:
> Nicola,
>
> Would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions....
Not at all.
> 1) Are you planning to force a meta model on Phoenix the project, or allow one to?
No.
I've never forced anything on anyone, and I won't start now.
In fact I have been trying to seek with Stephen and Peter and you all a
way of resolving the divide on a technical basis, testimony my mail to
this list dated 2002-08-28 12:21:16 that goes back to containerkit:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=103053734411956&w=2
> 2) Do you belive this issue was previously resolved?
No.
Since info seems now to have more features than meta on the automatic
descriptor generation side, I have asked Stephen if he was ready to use
info as a future common base and Peter if he was ready to discuss about
it technically on this list.
AFAIK, and IIUC, Stephen is willing to "merge" and to discuss it on this
list.
AFAIK, and IIUC, Peter said he's more interested in moving forward than
consensus.
But I'm not speaking for them, so please correct me if I'm wrong or if
opinions have changed in any way.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Mr Chairmain (provisional)...
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:24, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> AFAIK, and IIUC, Stephen is willing to "merge" and to discuss it on this
> list.
> AFAIK, and IIUC, Peter said he's more interested in moving forward than
> consensus.
>
> But I'm not speaking for them, so please correct me if I'm wrong or if
> opinions have changed in any way.
Extracted from Peters mail to you;
On restarting design and the possibility of consensus;
------------------------------------------------------
We have already tried that - what do you see that would change the outcome
this time? Personally I see it evolving in much the same way as before except
worse because there is less incentive to work together.
On cooperating with Stephen:
----------------------------
If he really wanted to cooperate with others all he has to do is cooperate.
There need not be a PMC, there need not be a restart in design there need not
be any changes to rules or anything. I am happy to cooperate with him in the
same way I would cooperate with you, Peter Royal, Paul, Berin or whoever - I
am not sure why he requires special treatment.
So Peter is more than willing to cooperate if there is desire but no real
effort has been made.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
He strains to hear a whisper who refuses to hear a shout.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
Re: Mr Chairmain (provisional)...
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> As previously stated on this list, I'm forwarding all mail I get from
> Avalon committers.
>
> This one is from Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>, Date: Mon, 18
> Nov 2002 05:04:35 +0000 (GMT).
>
> Paul Hammant wrote:
>
>> Nicola,
>>
>> Would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions....
>
>
> Not at all.
>
>> 1) Are you planning to force a meta model on Phoenix the project, or
>> allow one to?
>
>
> No.
Paul:
There may be some missunderstanding related to the role of the PMC and a
Chair of the PMC. The PMC is there to ensure that the project is doing
things in accordance with Apache practices, to vote on releases, to sort
out disputes if they arrise, to provide reports up to the board. The
Chair is on one hand just the messenger - the person assigned as chair
is also to some extent the weakest link in the PMC because he/she has to
manage two potentially conflicting interests - his/her obligations as a
chair (inpartiality, observing the procedures are followed, reporting,
etc.), and, as a PMC member (representing one point of view of the
overall Avalon project in matters that the PMC has to deal with).
As such, what Nicola thinks is about the least important person to worry
about (no offence Nicola). What PMC members think is also not really
important except if we are in a conflict or if we are discussing a
product release, etc. The people that matter are the committers and users.
>
> I've never forced anything on anyone, and I won't start now.
>
> In fact I have been trying to seek with Stephen and Peter and you all
> a way of resolving the divide on a technical basis, testimony my mail
> to this list dated 2002-08-28 12:21:16 that goes back to containerkit:
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-dev&m=103053734411956&w=2
>
>> 2) Do you belive this issue was previously resolved?
>
>
> No.
>
> Since info seems now to have more features than meta on the automatic
> descriptor generation side, I have asked Stephen if he was ready to
> use info as a future common base and Peter if he was ready to discuss
> about it technically on this list.
>
> AFAIK, and IIUC, Stephen is willing to "merge" and to discuss it on
> this list.
That is correct. There is overlap between the two, there are
differences, there is functionality within meta that does not exist
within info and visa-versa. There has also been a sustained effort to
ensure that the meta package addresses people's needs, and incorporates
comments from the developers and the users. Those comments and input to
meta are in my opinion much more important than the features at this
time - however, Pete has put together what looks like a good package of
tools to support meta info generation - its also why I have not spent
any effort moving in that direction. I expect that it would be
relatively easy to move the tools into meta with very little or zero
impact on the meta API. This is something I'm more than willing to
dicuss and work with based on a continued process of collaboration.
Unlike the containerkit scenario where the only active committers were
Pete and I, the situation is changing - we have input on the
avalon-users list, we have requirements from Marcus' work in XFC, we
have solid validation through the related Merlin work (and the need to
maintain feature compatibility), and we have interest in meta from
people outside of Avalon - that's a very different outlook than what
existed a while ago.
Cheers, Steve.
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>