You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@apr.apache.org by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net> on 2001/02/17 05:51:23 UTC
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Actually, this is a better forum to consider your suggestion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Smirl" <jo...@mediaone.net>
To: <ne...@apache.org>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
> From: "Greg Stein" <gs...@lyra.org>
> > It would actually be quite interesting to see APR ported to build against
> > STM and see what happens when the threaded MPM is thrown against APR/STM.
>
> Could this be taken even further and merge APR and NSPR into a single
> run-time library? There is already a lot of overlap between APR/NSPR and
> these two projects have similar goals. Developers working on the NSPR have
> expressed interest in merging with APR several times in the past.
>
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/index.html
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/reference/html/index.html
>
> FYI: SGI's State Threads Library is based on NSPR.
>
> If there are licensing concerns with Mozilla's code in my experience the
> Mozilla lawyers will do whatever it takes to resolve the differences so that
> the code can be used.
>
> Jon Smirl
> jonsmirl@mediaone.net
>
>
>
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:01:01AM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> > From: "Jon Smirl" <jo...@mediaone.net>
> > >
> > > If there are licensing concerns with Mozilla's code in my experience the
> > > Mozilla lawyers will do whatever it takes to resolve the differences so that
> > > the code can be used.
>
> The Apache license and the Mozilla license should be compatible - that is
> to say, the Mozilla developers should be able to include Apache code into
> Mozilla (or even Netscape's own commercial products) without a problem.
Right. Compatible in that *they* can use our code.
If we use theirs, then we would need to license (portions of) APR under the
MPL. We much prefer the Apache license.
And unfortunate situation, but true nonetheless.
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@collab.net>.
> From: "Jon Smirl" <jo...@mediaone.net>
> >
> > If there are licensing concerns with Mozilla's code in my experience the
> > Mozilla lawyers will do whatever it takes to resolve the differences so that
> > the code can be used.
The Apache license and the Mozilla license should be compatible - that is
to say, the Mozilla developers should be able to include Apache code into
Mozilla (or even Netscape's own commercial products) without a problem.
Brian
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by Jon Smirl <jo...@mediaone.net>.
I have forwarded copies of this mail thread to the NSPR developers. They
don't seem to be around this weekend so it may be Monday before you hear
from them.
If Apache and Mozilla can come to agreement on merging run-times there is
other interesting code in Mozilla as well. For example I already have an
Apache module for calling XPCOM (portable version of Microsoft's COM but
much simpler). XPCOM lets me build plugable components for creating web
pages. For example I have components for XSLT, database, chart generation,
generating email, etc. XPCOM supports compontents written in C, Java,
Javascript and I believe Perl and Python.
Merging NSPR and APR would give me a unified memory allocation scheme and
make it much easier to find and prevent leaks. I would also like to use
Apache pools from XPCOM but I need the merged run-time to do this.
Jon Smirl
jonsmirl@mediaone.net
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by Wan-Teh Chang <wt...@netscape.com>.
Bill Stoddard wrote:
>
> The change that would need to happen is for NSPR to be relicensed under a
> BSD/Apache style license. That would be most cool.
If you consider NSPR as an external library (just like libc
or other system libraries) that Apache depends on, rather than
an integral part of Apache, then I don't see why NSPR needs
to be relicensed under a BSD/Apache style license.
I would also like to clarify one point. Earlier in this
thread, someone wrote:
Developers working on the NSPR have expressed interest
in merging with APR several times in the past.
There must have been some miscommunication. Our talks with
the Apache Group regarding basing Apache 2.0 on NSPR all
occurred before APR was created.
Although we certainly like to see Apache use NSPR, I can see
obvious obstacles to an APR/NSPR merge (in the sense of
taking parts of each to form the new Portable Runtime). For
starters, NSPR needs to be backward compatible with previous
releases. We can add new API functions but can't change the
current API, even if it is flawed or can be improved. I am
not sure that the APR developers could live with this
constraint.
Source code licenses could be another obstacle (again).
One interesting project is to port APR to NSPR, treating
NSPR as a platform to port to. This will allow Apache code
to use both APR and NSPR with reduced code duplication, and
open the door to other mozilla.org technologies such as
XPCOM (cross-platform COM), NSS (the crypto and SSL libraries
in Netscape 6 and iPlanet Web Server), and LDAP SDK, that
are based on NSPR.
Apache <---> XPCOM, NSS, LDAP SDK
| | |
v \ |
APR \ /
\ \ /
\ \ /
v v v
NSPR
Wan-Teh Chang
An NSPR developer
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by Bill Stoddard <bi...@wstoddard.com>.
> > > From: "Greg Stein" <gs...@lyra.org>
> > > > It would actually be quite interesting to see APR ported to build
against
> > > > STM and see what happens when the threaded MPM is thrown against
APR/STM.
> > >
> > > Could this be taken even further and merge APR and NSPR into a single
> > > run-time library? There is already a lot of overlap between APR/NSPR and
> > > these two projects have similar goals. Developers working on the NSPR
have
> > > expressed interest in merging with APR several times in the past.
>
> I have never heard that interest, but if it is true, then yes I believe
> there is an opportunity there. The biggest problem we will have, is that
> I don't believe the APR code will ever move from a BSD-ish license. The
> Apache group in general, and a lot of the APR programmers in specific,
> like the BSD-ish licenses, and would be very unlikely to change.
>
> Technically, there are few if any reasons not to merge the two
> libraries. If anybody from NSPR is listening, let's talk about this. I
> think we are all willing and able to do what is required to make this
> happen
The change that would need to happen is for NSPR to be relicensed under a
BSD/Apache style license. That would be most cool.
Bill
Re: SGI's Accelerating Apache project
Posted by rb...@covalent.net.
> > From: "Greg Stein" <gs...@lyra.org>
> > > It would actually be quite interesting to see APR ported to build against
> > > STM and see what happens when the threaded MPM is thrown against APR/STM.
> >
> > Could this be taken even further and merge APR and NSPR into a single
> > run-time library? There is already a lot of overlap between APR/NSPR and
> > these two projects have similar goals. Developers working on the NSPR have
> > expressed interest in merging with APR several times in the past.
I have never heard that interest, but if it is true, then yes I believe
there is an opportunity there. The biggest problem we will have, is that
I don't believe the APR code will ever move from a BSD-ish license. The
Apache group in general, and a lot of the APR programmers in specific,
like the BSD-ish licenses, and would be very unlikely to change.
Technically, there are few if any reasons not to merge the two
libraries. If anybody from NSPR is listening, let's talk about this. I
think we are all willing and able to do what is required to make this
happen. I would like to see the API for APR stay as stable as possible,
because we have interest from other projects who want to ensure the API is
stable. However, a stable API just means that version 1 is set, we could
easily work on version 2 with a different API if necessary.
Ryan
> >
> > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/index.html
> > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/reference/html/index.html
> >
> > FYI: SGI's State Threads Library is based on NSPR.
> >
> > If there are licensing concerns with Mozilla's code in my experience the
> > Mozilla lawyers will do whatever it takes to resolve the differences so that
> > the code can be used.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Ryan Bloom rbb@apache.org
406 29th St.
San Francisco, CA 94131
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------