Re: incubation process for open development open source projects

[Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>]

On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:05:13PM +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> the process is democractic - graduation is by election
...
> requirements are assessed democractically
...

please stop saying democratic -- its a specific kind of meritocratic, with
merit only measured for things done within/for apache -- eg mr Gandhi hasn't
accumulated a lot of merit here at the ASF, even if he has accumulated a
lot in the rest of the world, so he doesn't get a binding vote.

LSD

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Re: Re: incubation process for open development open source projects

[robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>]

On 8/7/06, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>
> On Aug 7, 2006, at 6:37 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:05:13PM +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> >> the process is democractic - graduation is by election
> > ...
> >> requirements are assessed democractically
> > ...
> >
> > please stop saying democratic -- its a specific kind of
> > meritocratic, with
> > merit only measured for things done within/for apache -- eg mr
> > Gandhi hasn't
> > accumulated a lot of merit here at the ASF, even if he has
> > accumulated a
> > lot in the rest of the world, so he doesn't get a binding vote.
>
> Democracy is also limited by some criterion (geography, citizenship;
> in the past and often in the present the limits would also be based
> on class and gender), so mr Gandhi wouldn't get a vote in New Zealand
> general election either, while an ASF committer who has been idle for
> a year still gets a binding vote on her/his project at ASF.

+1

> So while I understand what you are saying, this explanation seems
> off, and the difference lies elsewhere. Meritocracy has everything to
> do with how you get (and stay) on the voter list. The voting part
> overlaps with democracy (as everybody who's in have an equal vote).

+1

it is perfectly possible to have meritocracies which are not
democractic. for example, appointment to a position may be on merit
but then that person alone takes decisions alone.

apache uses a democratic decision making process (one elector, one
vote) with (what we hope is) a meritocratic system for enfranchisement
(rather than a universal one).

- robert

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Re: incubation process for open development open source projects

[Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>]

On Aug 7, 2006, at 6:37 AM, Leo Simons wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 06, 2006 at 09:05:13PM +0100, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> the process is democractic - graduation is by election
> ...
>> requirements are assessed democractically
> ...
>
> please stop saying democratic -- its a specific kind of  
> meritocratic, with
> merit only measured for things done within/for apache -- eg mr  
> Gandhi hasn't
> accumulated a lot of merit here at the ASF, even if he has  
> accumulated a
> lot in the rest of the world, so he doesn't get a binding vote.
>
> LSD

Democracy is also limited by some criterion (geography, citizenship;  
in the past and often in the present the limits would also be based  
on class and gender), so mr Gandhi wouldn't get a vote in New Zealand  
general election either, while an ASF committer who has been idle for  
a year still gets a binding vote on her/his project at ASF.

So while I understand what you are saying, this explanation seems  
off, and the difference lies elsewhere. Meritocracy has everything to  
do with how you get (and stay) on the voter list. The voting part  
overlaps with democracy (as everybody who's in have an equal vote).

Andrus

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