What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

Following last week's discussion about the various parts composing an URL
and how to get them from Apache and/or mod_python, here is my first try at a
chart that sums up what we know. It show a sample URL and how different
components of the application server see it or contribute to it.

What's strongly missing here :

1) The Apache C API view of an URL : I have to learn the API a little bit to
find out what goes where.

2) Dependencies. For example we know that server.server_hostname depends on
SERVER_NAME which in turn depends on the Apache directive ServerName if
UseCanonicalName is On, or on the Host header sent by the client if
UseCanonicalName is Off.

I'm not sure if we really need another definition of the various part, as I
included many links in the document to better documentation that I could
ever hope to write. But I'm open to suggestions here.

As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then
feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer
release). I have then discovered that OpenOffice is far less intuitive in
the domain of merged cells or cell borders. For example, you cannot insert a
line on a sheet in the middle of a merged cell (Excel allows this). You have
to split the merged cell, insert the line, and merge again, discovering that
doing so has broke your cell borders, so you have to set them again. That's
where you start to regret Excel's border drawing tool... Anyway, as a
result, the borders may look a bit funny. I think we should switch to HTML
as soon as the chart is stabilized, but until then using a spreadsheet makes
editing the chart somewhat easier.

You'll find the OpenOffice this in the subversion trunk (in the Doc
directory). Feel free to contribute !

Regards,
Nicolas

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

Done.

2005/12/5, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org>:
>
>
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>
> > Understood. Can I use the branches/nlehuen directory to store this kind
> of
> > work in progress ? I'm pretty used to use SVN as a backup policy...
>
> Yes, that'd be much better, this way we avoid these things trickling into
> the final release tar file.
>
> Grisha
>

Re: What's in a URL ?

["Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Nicolas Lehuen wrote:

> Understood. Can I use the branches/nlehuen directory to store this kind of
> work in progress ? I'm pretty used to use SVN as a backup policy...

Yes, that'd be much better, this way we avoid these things trickling into 
the final release tar file.

Grisha

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

Understood. Can I use the branches/nlehuen directory to store this kind of
work in progress ? I'm pretty used to use SVN as a backup policy...

Regards,
Nicolas

2005/12/5, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org>:
>
>
> On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>
> > 2. I don't know - I did not made this to distribute
>
> It's a _very_ nice document, but I think you jumped the gun by checking it
> into Doc because it's not a .tex file and doesn't fit into the Mod_python
> manual, which is what the Doc directory is for.
>
> I worry we may develop a tendency towards treating the Apache SVN as file
> sharing mechanism, which is not what it's for. At least whatever is
> underneath mod_python/ directory in SVN must IMHO be part of the "final
> package", and should probably not include any
> scratch-pad/temoprary/work-in-progress type stuff.
>
> Grisha
>

Re: What's in a URL ?

["Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>]

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Nicolas Lehuen wrote:

> 2. I don't know - I did not made this to distribute

It's a _very_ nice document, but I think you jumped the gun by checking it 
into Doc because it's not a .tex file and doesn't fit into the Mod_python 
manual, which is what the Doc directory is for.

I worry we may develop a tendency towards treating the Apache SVN as file 
sharing mechanism, which is not what it's for. At least whatever is 
underneath mod_python/ directory in SVN must IMHO be part of the "final 
package", and should probably not include any 
scratch-pad/temoprary/work-in-progress type stuff.

Grisha

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

Hi Jim,

1. I chose the colours to aid in reading, but I tried to regroup items
logically. For example I chose a weird orange for environment variables.
Anyway, I'm thinking that I could use colors to represent the dependencies
(what data comes from the client, what data comes from the server, and after
this dichotomie, a set of colors for Apache-level APIs, CGI env-vars, and
mod_python). That's a work in progress...

2. I don't know - I did not made this to distribute, just to fuel our
discussion about the various way to get information about the request, and
the mess it can cause. But if you guys find it worth publishing, why not.

Regarding 2c, I solved the problem by dropping OpenOffice and doing it in
HTML (I exported from OO to HTML and cleaned up the mess manually). I've
checked in the result in the Doc directory.

Regards,
Nicolas

2005/12/3, Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>:
>
> Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Following last week's discussion about the various parts composing an
> > URL and how to get them from Apache and/or mod_python, here is my first
> > try at a chart that sums up what we know. It show a sample URL and how
> > different components of the application server see it or contribute to
> it.
>
> Interesting view. Couple of questions:
>
> 1. Any significance to the colours or are they just to aid in reading?
>
> 2. How do you envisage this being distributed?
>     a. On the mod_python website?
>     b. Once it's complete, rewrite it in LateX so it's integrated with
> the generated html-docs?
>     c. Bundle with html-docs but generate the file (html or pdf) from
> the ods source?
>
>
> From the perspective of creating the releases 2.b is likely best, but
> making this kind of table in LaTeX goes *way* beyond my skills.
>
> If you see us using 2.c then we need to think about how to automate
> openoffice to create the file during the packaging.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>]

Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Following last week's discussion about the various parts composing an 
> URL and how to get them from Apache and/or mod_python, here is my first 
> try at a chart that sums up what we know. It show a sample URL and how 
> different components of the application server see it or contribute to it.

Interesting view. Couple of questions:

1. Any significance to the colours or are they just to aid in reading?

2. How do you envisage this being distributed?
    a. On the mod_python website?
    b. Once it's complete, rewrite it in LateX so it's integrated with 
the generated html-docs?
    c. Bundle with html-docs but generate the file (html or pdf) from 
the ods source?


 From the perspective of creating the releases 2.b is likely best, but 
making this kind of table in LaTeX goes *way* beyond my skills.

If you see us using 2.c then we need to think about how to automate 
openoffice to create the file during the packaging.

Jim

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

2005/12/5, Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>:
>
> 2005/12/5, David Fraser <da...@sjsoft.com>:
> >
> > Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
> >
> > > As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then
> > > feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer
> > > release). I have then discovered that OpenOffice is far less intuitive
> >
> > > in the domain of merged cells or cell borders. For example, you cannot
> > > insert a line on a sheet in the middle of a merged cell (Excel allows
> > > this). You have to split the merged cell, insert the line, and merge
> > > again, discovering that doing so has broke your cell borders, so you
> > > have to set them again. That's where you start to regret Excel's
> > > border drawing tool... Anyway, as a result, the borders may look a bit
> >
> > > funny. I think we should switch to HTML as soon as the chart is
> > > stabilized, but until then using a spreadsheet makes editing the chart
> > > somewhat easier.
> >
> > You did report a bug to OpenOffice.org didn't you? :-)
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> It's already been reported :
>
> http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=14769
>
> Regards,
> Nicolas
>

... since 2003. Duh.

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

2005/12/5, David Fraser <da...@sjsoft.com>:
>
> Nicolas Lehuen wrote:
>
> > As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then
> > feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer
> > release). I have then discovered that OpenOffice is far less intuitive
> > in the domain of merged cells or cell borders. For example, you cannot
> > insert a line on a sheet in the middle of a merged cell (Excel allows
> > this). You have to split the merged cell, insert the line, and merge
> > again, discovering that doing so has broke your cell borders, so you
> > have to set them again. That's where you start to regret Excel's
> > border drawing tool... Anyway, as a result, the borders may look a bit
> > funny. I think we should switch to HTML as soon as the chart is
> > stabilized, but until then using a spreadsheet makes editing the chart
> > somewhat easier.
>
> You did report a bug to OpenOffice.org didn't you? :-)
>
> David
>
>
It's already been reported :

http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=14769

Regards,
Nicolas

Re: What's in a URL ?

[David Fraser <da...@sjsoft.com>]

Nicolas Lehuen wrote:

> As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then 
> feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer 
> release). I have then discovered that OpenOffice is far less intuitive 
> in the domain of merged cells or cell borders. For example, you cannot 
> insert a line on a sheet in the middle of a merged cell (Excel allows 
> this). You have to split the merged cell, insert the line, and merge 
> again, discovering that doing so has broke your cell borders, so you 
> have to set them again. That's where you start to regret Excel's 
> border drawing tool... Anyway, as a result, the borders may look a bit 
> funny. I think we should switch to HTML as soon as the chart is 
> stabilized, but until then using a spreadsheet makes editing the chart 
> somewhat easier.

You did report a bug to OpenOffice.org didn't you? :-)

David

Re: What's in a URL ?

[Nicolas Lehuen <ni...@gmail.com>]

Here you are :

http://nicolas.lehuen.com/sandbox/whats-in-an-url.html

It's ugly, and I had to pass the HTML produced by OpenOffice through Tidy to
remove all those rotten FONT tags, but that's better than ruining your eyes.

Regards,
Nicolas

2005/12/3, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>
>
> Nicolas Lehuen writes:
> > As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then
> > feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Guilt is good for the soul, my son.  Shun the M$ beast...this is good
> for the soul.
>
> As for your pdf...after opening it in xpdf it was approximately the
> size of a pencil eraser.  Zooming 400% makes it somewhat readable.
> Any possibility of spitting it out to html and posting it somewhere?
>
> Daniel Popowich
> ---------------
> http://home.comcast.net/~d.popowich/mpservlets/
>
>

Re: What's in a URL ?

["Daniel J. Popowich" <dp...@comcast.net>]

Nicolas Lehuen writes:
> As for the colophon : I initially built this chart on Excel 2003, then
> feeling a bit guilty, I decided to switch to OpenOffice 2 (developer
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Guilt is good for the soul, my son.  Shun the M$ beast...this is good
for the soul.

As for your pdf...after opening it in xpdf it was approximately the
size of a pencil eraser.  Zooming 400% makes it somewhat readable.
Any possibility of spitting it out to html and posting it somewhere?

Daniel Popowich
---------------
http://home.comcast.net/~d.popowich/mpservlets/