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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org> on 2003/08/01 10:03:03 UTC
Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Before the upcoming release, I'd like to promote the
TraversableGenerator stuff to the main trunk. There are several things
to discuss, though:
1. naming. TraversableGenerator sucks, yes. I guess the best option as
of now is SourceHierarchyGenerator, any others?
2. merge Sylvain's stuff (caching, directory filter...). Sylvain, do you
think you can take care of that?
3. namespace: is http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0 ok?
4. back-compatibility: should we deprecate DirectoryGenerator? Should we
provide a stylesheet to convert the output of Traversable to Directory's?
5. xpath: I'm starting to wonder whether is OK to have a separate
XPathTraversableGenerator or if it would be better having a single
SourceHierarchyGenerator with (optional) XPath capabilities. How about it?
Let's discuss all these issue (and I might well have forgotten some): I
think that at a very least we need a [VOTE] on the namespace afterwards.
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 1/08/2003 14:28 Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> I can spell "hierarchy" too when not too drunk, it just takes more
> mental resources ;-P
>
> Is there anybody against CollectionGenerator?
Could we have that with one 'l' for alcoholics, since they tend to
drawllll anyhow?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
> Stephan Michels wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>
>>> Mmmh... "collection" it a bit too vague IMO. Why not keeping the
>>> current
>>> "directory" namespace ?
>>
>>
>>
>> At least, we should agree on one name
>>
>> SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
>> SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
>> SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
>>
>> or DirectoryGenerator.
>>
>
> Makes sense. I'm a bit against using "directory" since it's definitely
> filesystem oriented. Both WebDAV and XML:DB have the more generic
> concept of "collection" and "resource", which I like. I now tend to
> think that, semantically, the best option is to use "hierarchy" and
> have the output as:
>
> <hierarchy:hierarchy>
> <hierarchy:collection name="cocoon-2.1">
> <hierarchy:resource name="build.xml"/>
> <hierarchy:collection name="src">
> <hierarchy:resource name="Cocoon.java"/>
> </hierarchy:collection>
> </hierarchy:collection>
> </hierarchy:hierarchy>
>
> How does it sound?
I'm damn sure that CollectionGenerator sounds much more simple. However
I can spell "hierarchy" too when not too drunk, it just takes more
mental resources ;-P
Is there anybody against CollectionGenerator?
Vadim
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Stephan Michels wrote:
>
>>
>>Mmmh... "collection" it a bit too vague IMO. Why not keeping the current
>>"directory" namespace ?
>
>
> At least, we should agree on one name
>
> SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
> SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
> SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
>
> or DirectoryGenerator.
>
Makes sense. I'm a bit against using "directory" since it's definitely
filesystem oriented. Both WebDAV and XML:DB have the more generic
concept of "collection" and "resource", which I like. I now tend to
think that, semantically, the best option is to use "hierarchy" and have
the output as:
<hierarchy:hierarchy>
<hierarchy:collection name="cocoon-2.1">
<hierarchy:resource name="build.xml"/>
<hierarchy:collection name="src">
<hierarchy:resource name="Cocoon.java"/>
</hierarchy:collection>
</hierarchy:collection>
</hierarchy:hierarchy>
How does it sound?
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Geoff Howard <co...@leverageweb.com>.
Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
> Guido Casper wrote:
>
>> Stephan Michels wrote:
>>
>>> At least, we should agree on one name
>>>
>>> SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
>>> SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
>>> SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
>>>
>>> or DirectoryGenerator.
>>
>>
>>
>> Probably I should shut up and sit down before adding yet another
>> opinion but
>> FWIW I prefer DirectoryGenerator. It's most user-friendly (immediately
>> understood by everyone) and compatible.
>
>
> I could easily live with it, but the problem is that someone might have
> extended DirectoryGenerator, and such extensions would not be compatible
> anymore if we just drop it in favor of the source based one. You don't
> want this, don't you? :-)
I suggested in the past creating a "name only" extension of this
generator to make it clearer to the casual observer that it can work
with simple directories. Since the name DirectoryGenerator is used and
should be protected wouldn't "SourceDirectoryGenerator" do?
Alternatively, adding a deprecation note on DirectoryGenerator which
points to whatever extremely-accurate-but-unclear-to-outsiders name we
want might be all that is needed.
Geoff
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Guido Casper wrote:
> Stephan Michels wrote:
>
>>At least, we should agree on one name
>>
>>SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
>>SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
>>SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
>>
>>or DirectoryGenerator.
>
>
> Probably I should shut up and sit down before adding yet another opinion but
> FWIW I prefer DirectoryGenerator. It's most user-friendly (immediately
> understood by everyone) and compatible.
I could easily live with it, but the problem is that someone might have
extended DirectoryGenerator, and such extensions would not be compatible
anymore if we just drop it in favor of the source based one. You don't
want this, don't you? :-)
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Sylvain Wallez wrote:
>> +1, KISS like.
>>
>> DirectoryGenerator and
>> FileGenerator.
>>
>> 99% of the used sources are files.
>>
>> And I don't think backward compatibility is here a must have.
>>
>
> Yes it is, since some users (of which I am) extended DirectoryGenerator
> to add their own filtering strategies and additional attributes...
>
Not to mention the 4-5 Generators we have in the Cocoon codebase which
are extending DirectoryGenerator...
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Stephan Michels wrote:
>+1, KISS like.
>
>DirectoryGenerator and
>FileGenerator.
>
>99% of the used sources are files.
>
>And I don't think backward compatibility is here a must have.
>
Yes it is, since some users (of which I am) extended DirectoryGenerator
to add their own filtering strategies and additional attributes...
Back to the discussion about protected/private and "officially public"
APIs...
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Orixo, the opensource XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Guido Casper wrote:
> Stephan Michels wrote:
> > At least, we should agree on one name
> >
> > SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
> > SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
> > SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
> >
> > or DirectoryGenerator.
>
> Probably I should shut up and sit down before adding yet another opinion but
> FWIW I prefer DirectoryGenerator. It's most user-friendly (immediately
> understood by everyone) and compatible. I can already imagine:
>
> "What the heck is SourceHierarchyGenerator"
> "A DirectoryGenerator for other sources as well"
> :-)
>
> I see no strong reason to rename DirectoryGenerator just because now it
> operates on other sources as well. It is semantically as correct as the
> other.
>
> The next step is renaming FileGenerator? Although this would even make more
> sense. But given that these components will mostly be used for the
> filesystem for a long time to come ...
+1, KISS like.
DirectoryGenerator and
FileGenerator.
99% of the used sources are files.
And I don't think backward compatibility is here a must have.
Stephan.
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Guido Casper <gc...@s-und-n.de>.
Stephan Michels wrote:
> At least, we should agree on one name
>
> SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
> SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
> SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
>
> or DirectoryGenerator.
Probably I should shut up and sit down before adding yet another opinion but
FWIW I prefer DirectoryGenerator. It's most user-friendly (immediately
understood by everyone) and compatible. I can already imagine:
"What the heck is SourceHierarchyGenerator"
"A DirectoryGenerator for other sources as well"
:-)
I see no strong reason to rename DirectoryGenerator just because now it
operates on other sources as well. It is semantically as correct as the
other.
The next step is renaming FileGenerator? Although this would even make more
sense. But given that these components will mostly be used for the
filesystem for a long time to come ...
But I'm fine with any of these names.
Guido
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Stephan Michels <st...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
>
> > Before the upcoming release, I'd like to promote the
> > TraversableGenerator stuff to the main trunk. There are several things
> > to discuss, though:
> >
> > 1. naming. TraversableGenerator sucks, yes. I guess the best option as
> > of now is SourceHierarchyGenerator, any others?
>
>
> +1 for SourceHierarchyGenerator
>
> > 2. merge Sylvain's stuff (caching, directory filter...). Sylvain, do
> > you think you can take care of that?
>
>
> Sorry, I should have done this before. Will do it today.
>
> > 3. namespace: is http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0 ok?
>
>
> Mmmh... "collection" it a bit too vague IMO. Why not keeping the current
> "directory" namespace ?
At least, we should agree on one name
SourceHierarchyGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/hierachy/1.0
SourceCollectionGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0
SourceDirectoryGenerator -> http://apache.org/cocoon/directory/1.0
or DirectoryGenerator.
My 2cents, Stephan.
Re: Promotion of [XPath]TraversableGenerators to main trunk
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
> Before the upcoming release, I'd like to promote the
> TraversableGenerator stuff to the main trunk. There are several things
> to discuss, though:
>
> 1. naming. TraversableGenerator sucks, yes. I guess the best option as
> of now is SourceHierarchyGenerator, any others?
+1 for SourceHierarchyGenerator
> 2. merge Sylvain's stuff (caching, directory filter...). Sylvain, do
> you think you can take care of that?
Sorry, I should have done this before. Will do it today.
> 3. namespace: is http://apache.org/cocoon/collection/1.0 ok?
Mmmh... "collection" it a bit too vague IMO. Why not keeping the current
"directory" namespace ?
> 4. back-compatibility: should we deprecate DirectoryGenerator? Should
> we provide a stylesheet to convert the output of Traversable to
> Directory's?
There's no need to convert if we keep the current namespace. This would
allow a smooth transition by just changing the class name in <map:generator>
> 5. xpath: I'm starting to wonder whether is OK to have a separate
> XPathTraversableGenerator or if it would be better having a single
> SourceHierarchyGenerator with (optional) XPath capabilities. How about
> it?
Dunno...
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
Orixo, the opensource XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com