Summary of IRC meeting in #couchdb-meeting, Wed May 22 19:00:01 2013

[ASF IRC Services <as...@wilderness.apache.org>]

Members present: dch_, Wohali_, Wohali, kocolosk, nslater, dch, Humbedooh, Kxepal

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Meeting summary:
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1. Preface

2. 1.3.1
  a. dch to mail dev@ on release blocking issues (dch, 2)
  b. Please chip in with the 1.3.1 effort. Anybody can contribute, you don't need a commit bit. Let's merge in ALL the PRs, JIRA patches, branches, changes, etc. And please help with NEWS and CHANGES (nslater, 2)
  c. Do not feel blocked by the Git workflow discussions. We have to muddle through 1.3.1 as-is, and hope we get this better next month. If you feel blocked or unsure, please give a shout (nslater, 2)

3. rcouch
  a. cleanup progressed, it will be a clean branch from CouchDB soon, benoit will send in the vote for integration soon (nslater, 3)

4. vagrant

5. benoit will share on Friday

6. vagrant
  a. benoit will share on Friday (nslater, 6)

7. PPA ubuntu repo thingy
  a. benoit sez: please chip in and get involved with the PPA/deb packaging effort! thanks! (nslater, 7)

8. gitflow
  a. we need to drive this to conclusion as quickly as possible (nslater, 8)
  b. djc, randal, and rnewson to nail this down and document on the wiki (nslater, 8)
  c. dch to do step-by-step commit approach (dch, 8)

9. jira cleanup
  a. Kxepal to do a workflow for jira / ticket management, willing helpers to apply to the usual place (dch, 9)

10. meetings in the next few weeks

11. leftover items

12. asf vm
  a. kocolosk and Wohali to cook up a storm of couch chefness (dch_, 12)
  b. dch to send the vm request (dch_, 12)

13. provisioning
  a. aws marketplace idea (dch_, 13)

14. any other business
  a. Kxepal kocolosk Wohali will be working on a jira process  (dch_, 14)


--------
Actions:
--------
- dch to mail dev@ on release blocking issues (dch, 19:10:32)
- djc, randal, and rnewson to nail this down and document on the wiki (nslater, 19:21:17)
- dch to do step-by-step commit approach (dch, 19:21:25)
- Kxepal to do a workflow for jira / ticket management, willing helpers to apply to the usual place (dch, 19:34:39)
- kocolosk and Wohali to cook up a storm of couch chefness (dch_, 19:51:26)
- dch to send the vm request (dch_, 19:51:49)
- Kxepal kocolosk Wohali will be working on a jira process  (dch_, 19:54:54)

IRC log follows:


# 1. Preface #
19:00:02 [dch]: ASFBot: meeting start
19:00:54 [nslater]: 
ACTION wobbles

19:01:02 [Kxepal]: benoitc: chewbranca dch garren jan____ JasonSmith kocolosk nslater rnewson ryan_ramage Wohali ASFBot banjiewen bartender bigbluehat drsm79 Humbedooh jeffmjack_ jez0990_ mikewallace sbisbee svnlto vmx Toba whodidthis evening!
19:01:54 [Wohali]: hiho
19:03:11 [dch]: I have a couple topics, jira & whether we should still have a meeting over next few weeks, items from last week(s) meetings.
19:03:24 [dch]: anybody else? starting in 3…2..1...
19:03:47 [nslater]: yep
19:03:48 [nslater]: 1.3.1
19:03:54 [nslater]: rcouch
19:04:02 [nslater]: Vagrant VM File
19:04:09 [nslater]: ppp
19:04:17 [nslater]: git workflow
19:04:18 [nslater]: EOF
19:05:26 [dch]: topic reminder 1.3.1, rcouch, vagrant, ppa, gitflow, jira, meetings, leftover items, asf vm


# 2. 1.3.1 #
19:05:54 [nslater]: please see the following thread:
19:06:02 [nslater]: [REQUEST] [REMINDER] Merge changes for CouchDB 1.3.1
19:06:24 [nslater]: please follow the stuff in there - help us get NEWS/CHANGES up to date
19:06:26 [nslater]: help us merge in PRs, JIRA tickets, branches, etc
19:06:41 [nslater]: i really want to have a 1.3.1 in a single round of voting this tues
19:06:47 [nslater]: but i *need* help :)
19:07:02 [nslater]: anybody can chip in here - you dont need a commit bit
19:07:05 [nslater]: EOF
19:07:16 [dch]: I'm happy to do my bits on this, but feel I haven't got a green light for merging stuff directly in.
19:07:31 [nslater]: how do you mean?
19:07:39 [nslater]: you mean process-wise?
19:07:39 [dch]: I *can* do that obviously, but I feel we should follow the proposed git workflow.
19:07:47 [dch]: nslater: exactly.
19:07:49 [nslater]: we don't *have* a proposed git workflow
19:07:54 [nslater]: we've got several
19:08:01 [nslater]: the release must not be delayed by this
19:08:09 [dch]: oh, ok. Um I believe we have "branch stuff, get OKs, then merge".
19:08:11 [nslater]: if we cant agree on a way forward in the next day or two then just do whatever
19:08:20 [nslater]: we can get itteratively better at this over time
19:08:32 [dch]: Mine are all trivial imho so I will try merging.
19:08:39 [nslater]: dch did you see the stuff randal posted?
19:08:46 [nslater]: it seems like we have a few different ideas
19:08:48 [dch]: anybody else feeling blocked or not sure about next steps for the release?
19:09:01 [dch]: nslater: they are good ideas, yes, I'll make a point on replying.
19:09:34 [nslater]: dch - if you can reply on the Git thread - and maybe post another question somewhere asking if people feel blocked
19:09:34 [dch]: Kxepal: I'd love to see your docs updates in 1.3.1, but this means they need at least to go on a feature branch Real Soon 
19:09:39 [nslater]: i think thats a good question
19:09:54 [nslater]: we cannot wait for this to be resolved for the release - we 'ave to just muddle through
19:10:01 [dch]: nslater: blocked on the release? or "stuff in general" ?
19:10:01 [nslater]: and hope its better for the next release
19:10:01 [dch]: +1
19:10:03 [nslater]: blocked for 1.3.1
19:10:09 [dch]: continual, albeit brownian, improvement
19:10:16 [nslater]: if people feel like they are waiting for something - lets remove that perception
19:10:16 [Kxepal]: dch: I don't think that I'll make ready all changes, but few I should
19:10:32 [dch]: #action dch to mail dev@ on release blocking issues
19:11:01 [dch]: Kxepal: sure, the way RTD is hooked up atm (thanks djc) we can push updates post 1.3.1 into the 1.3.x branch anyway and they'll show up fine.
19:11:09 [dch]: ok, next topic
19:11:09 [nslater]: nope
19:11:32 [nslater]: #info Please chip in with the 1.3.1 effort. Anybody can contribute, you don't need a commit bit. Let's merge in ALL the PRs, JIRA patches, branches, changes, etc. And please help with NEWS and CHANGES
19:12:01 [nslater]: #info Do not feel blocked by the Git workflow discussions. We have to muddle through 1.3.1 as-is, and hope we get this better next month. If you feel blocked or unsure, please give a shout
19:12:02 [nslater]: okay, next topic :)


# 3. rcouch #
19:12:16 [nslater]: okay i am benoit's proxy for today
19:12:39 [nslater]: #info cleanup progressed, it will be a clean branch from CouchDB soon, benoit will send in the vote for integration soon
19:13:03 [nslater]: EOF
19:13:54 [dch]: that's awesome! We will have a lot of mergy cleanup work to do soon, in a good way.


# 4. vagrant #
19:14:25 [nslater]: another proxy update


# 5. benoit will share on Friday #
19:14:46 [nslater]: eek
19:14:46 [nslater]: hehe


# 6. vagrant #
19:14:56 [nslater]: #info benoit will share on Friday
19:15:31 [dch]: moving on...
19:15:31 [nslater]: EOF


# 7. PPA ubuntu repo thingy #
19:16:11 [nslater]: #info benoit sez: please chip in and get involved with the PPA/deb packaging effort! thanks!
19:16:20 [nslater]: EOF
19:17:16 [dch]: so other than till and tilgovi, has anybody else been involved with this sort of work?
19:17:31 [nslater]: yes - i used to be a debian dev
19:17:56 [nslater]: in fact, i made the first couchdb.deb for debian/ubuntu
19:18:02 [dch]: so we have a few grand master/mistresses about for this, yay. looking forwards to being educated on this stuff then!
19:18:05 [nslater]: and maintained it for several years


# 8. gitflow #
19:19:39 [nslater]: i dont know enough about git to offer any opinion other than: we need to drive this to conclusion as quickly as possible
19:20:16 [nslater]: i have every confidence that djc, randal, and rnewson can get this thing nailed down pretty quickly
19:20:39 [nslater]: #info we need to drive this to conclusion as quickly as possible
19:20:39 [Wohali]: i will say as a new committer here that i feel very lost
19:20:50 [nslater]: how so?
19:20:54 [Wohali]: someone give me a clear way to do the equivalent of a github PR
19:21:01 [dch]: Wohali: lost in git, or lost in the discussion?
19:21:01 [Wohali]: and then merge it
19:21:02 [Wohali]: like how-to, step by step
19:21:09 [dch]: ok, I can do that.
19:21:09 [Wohali]: the current guides are insufficient.
19:21:17 [nslater]: #action djc, randal, and rnewson to nail this down and document on the wiki
19:21:17 [Wohali]: thank you.
19:21:25 [dch]: #action dch to do step-by-step commit approach
19:21:31 [Wohali]: assume I will make a mess of things unless you give me step-by-step.
19:21:39 [Wohali]: (it's not true but it's a safe assumption.)
19:21:46 [dch]: Wohali: +1 for me too. But I have no shame any more.
19:22:03 [Kxepal]: does current out of dated? http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/ContributorWorkflow
19:23:02 [dch]: Kxepal: very likely.
19:23:16 [dch]: This would be a good candidate for the nascent developers guide.
19:23:24 [dch]: I am a bit lost with the wiki, so many pages.
19:23:33 [dch]: ok, any other git discussions?
19:23:39 [Kxepal]: agreed
19:24:03 [nslater]: EOF from me


# 9. jira cleanup #
19:24:55 [nslater]: this would be a good one for us to form a team around
19:25:02 [nslater]: been meaning to try to recruit people for this for ages
19:25:16 [nslater]: really great way for people on user@ and developers to get involved
19:25:17 [dch]: so we have a lot of "jira debt" atm, I'd hoped to spend a day on it last week but had no power all day, this is something that just needs a tickle every now and then from folk.
19:25:24 [dch]: feel free to chip in at will.
19:25:48 [nslater]: dch you wanna rally some troops?
19:26:02 [dch]: nslater: agreed, however it feels a bit chicken and egg to me - part of triaging is deciding where to send stuff to imho.
19:26:03 [nslater]: perhaps an email outlining the sorts of stuff you want help with, and explaining how people could contribute
19:26:16 [nslater]: well, start a wiki page and start to document your flow
19:26:17 [dch]: nslater: yes, but perhaps after holidays? I will not have much time to respond prior.
19:26:24 [nslater]: thats fine
19:26:27 [nslater]: whenever you have time!
19:26:31 [dch]: anybody else would like to pick this up perhaps in the interim?
19:26:31 [Kxepal]: dch: what's the goals of this cleanup? e.g. what to do?
19:26:39 [nslater]: django has a really great system here
19:26:40 [nslater]: they have ticket trigage team
19:26:46 [Wohali]: a quick process and I'd be happy to help
19:26:48 [nslater]: you'll usually have your bug report responded to in a day or less
19:27:01 [nslater]: and the apprioriate devs will be added to it, etc, etc
19:27:09 [Wohali]: but i don't know what the goal is other than "jira messy, clean jira"
19:27:16 [nslater]: Wohali: you interested in trying to form a team?
19:27:39 [kocolosk]: i'm interested in helping out, if not long-term then at least in this first pass
19:27:39 [dch]: Wohali: Kxepal: make some hard decisions about stuff we have no intention of fixing (close), things that won't go into this release (defer), things that need more care (not sure/too hard/...) ? ?
19:28:24 [nslater]: dch Wohali Kxepal - thinking a little bit longer term: establish an easy to follow guide, and loose team around people who volunteer to go through a "new tickets report" on a regular basis and do the trigage up front
19:29:09 [nslater]: this is perfect work for people new to the project who want to get a feel for things before they start contributing patches
19:29:25 [nslater]: i'd also like to come up with a tag for tickets that is like "jump in" that we can use to indicate work that would be good for new contributors
19:29:46 [kocolosk]: don't we alreaady have that?
19:29:55 [kocolosk]: whatever was the opposite of Guru Level
19:30:09 [nslater]: not really - i think it could be improved a bit
19:30:16 [Kxepal]: dch: so..walk through the opened issues; take a look on their status; was patch provided there; is patch required rebase; was discussion stalled. summarize, ping everyone who's able to help, fix things you can. right?
19:30:39 [nslater]: ticket triage could be as simple as spotting its an autoconf bug, moving the component to "build system", adding me to the ticket and saying "thanks for your bug report! i've starred one of the build system devs"
19:31:16 [nslater]: or, as is likely to be the case quite a bit, marking things are dupes, invalid, etc, etc
19:31:16 [dch]: Kxepal: I don't want to get in the way, if you find a process that makes sense for people feel free to apply it!
19:31:54 [dch]: rather than run through options now, Wohali and/or Kxepal are you willing to pick this up & run with it? Excuse the NZ rugby metaphor.
19:31:56 [nslater]: agreed. my comments are not prescriptive
19:32:01 [nslater]: we just need *someone* to be looking at this
19:32:09 [nslater]: preferably more than one person
19:32:24 [dch]: anyway I'd be making it up as I go along anyway. And I will gladly jirafy myself from time to time.
19:33:09 [Kxepal]: dch: I could keep one eye on it since I still have walk through issues to bind them with commits for changelog.rst content
19:34:02 [dch]: Kxepal: cool.
19:34:24 [Kxepal]: not every git commit contains reference to related jira issue, otherwise simple grep was helpful
19:34:39 [dch]: #action Kxepal to do a workflow for jira / ticket management, willing helpers to apply to the usual place
19:35:24 [dch]: also Humbedooh has made some changes now, JIRA and IRC see certain things and link them up automatically. I'm sure he'd be willing to clarify, and can be bribed for features in the usual way.
19:35:31 [Kxepal]: dch: ehm..I'm not sure about workflow process description since I'm not experience user of such systems (:
19:35:41 [Kxepal]: it might be flawful
19:35:54 [dch]: Kxepal: "do this, then that. Don't touch these, but ask about that". Anything else is overkill.
19:35:54 [dch]: ok with that?
19:36:24 [dch]: you'll get feedback on dev@ and/or user@ as always, release early & often. 
19:36:24 [Kxepal]: ok, let's try
19:36:32 [dch]: yay :-)
19:36:35 [Humbedooh]: dch: email about what I do around here is incoming after the members meeting :)
19:36:39 [dch]: thank-you!


# 10. meetings in the next few weeks #
19:37:24 [dch]: open question, do we want to continue? I'm away, Jan's away, but that's no reason to stop the party. 
19:37:39 [nslater]: yes
19:37:39 [dch]: Kxepal / Alex has agreed to chair the meetings.
19:37:56 [dch]: and nslater will be around to proffer witticisms etc.
19:38:01 [nslater]: vacations are no reason to stop the meetings
19:38:09 [Kxepal]: np, but what about time? I was a bit suprised with 13:00 UTC last time
19:38:26 [nslater]: i dont think the lunch-time meetings are working out
19:38:39 [nslater]: we were hoping to attract people from other time-zones, and that didn't happen
19:38:47 [dch]: excellent!
19:38:49 [nslater]: i think it also confused people
19:39:01 [dch]: um I can't send the reminders out, alex are you ok to do these too?
19:39:31 [Kxepal]: dch: sure, I'll use your mails as templates (:
19:40:54 [dch]: also, I promised to send out a survey, turns out I can't do that with doodle as planned, any alternative ideas? I could try using google docs or survey monkey maybe.
19:41:01 [dch]: for "what times work best" ?
19:41:39 [dch]: Kxepal: my IRc conn is dropping out a lot, next week is a 13h00 UTC, then 19h00 the following week {repeat}
19:41:39 [nslater]: i dont understand why we're messing with this
19:41:54 [nslater]: dch do you think the 13h00 meetings are working out?
19:41:55 [dch]: nslater: IIRC you asked for it? I'm ok to stay with status quo
19:41:57 [nslater]: nobody turned up to the last one
19:42:31 [Kxepal]: nslater: last one failed because of me - I'd mess the time and hadn't ping people around
19:42:31 [Wohali_]: bouncy
19:42:31 [dch]: we've done like 2 only. If its a repeating pattern that helps a lot.
19:42:39 [Wohali_]: did this make it through?
19:42:39 [Wohali_]: 15:32 <+Wohali> I'll volunteer to help but I can't be the only person involved.
19:42:39 [Wohali_]: 15:33 <+Wohali> I'd also be making it up as I go along, and would prefer some back-and-forth than "Joan goes
19:42:39 [Wohali_]:                 and builds a big thing in a vacuum then expects people to +1 it"
19:42:39 [Wohali_]: 15:33 <+Wohali> but sure, lemme help.
19:42:39 [Wohali_]: 15:33 <+Wohali> jan____ had been doing a bunch of this for the 1.3.0 release, perhaps he has some ideas.
19:44:01 [dch]: Wohali_: nope :-)
19:44:01 [Wohali_]: well there you go then.
19:44:01 [dch_]: hey, ok I'm switching too.
19:44:09 [dch_]: I know of a couple of people at least in Asia (other than jhs) who can't attend the evening session, and I'd love us to be able to grow our global presence.
19:44:24 [nslater]: dch i am happy to shut my gob for another month or so - but i will get louder about this if we see the same sort of turn out :)
19:44:24 [dch_]: unless there's massive dissent I think alternating is a long-term Good Thing.
19:44:24 [dch_]: that's my only reason.
19:44:31 [dch_]: nslater: noted :-) 
19:44:54 [dch_]: ok, then topic time


# 11. leftover items #
19:45:19 [Wohali]: point of order ,what was the conclusion to the jira cleanup thing? since i got netsplit?
19:46:25 [dch_]: oh, I will amend that, but Kxepal  agreed to give it a go, and I am sure he will welcome your guidance/input/experience!
19:46:48 [kocolosk]: i tried to volunteer to help as well
19:46:55 [Wohali]: yay
19:47:03 [Wohali]: more helpers
19:47:03 [dch_]: oh that was lost in the sea of typing. \o/ thanks kocolosk 
19:47:27 [dch_]: I'll fix that at the end
19:47:27 [dch_]: OK, there's only one leftover item I could find in last minutes.
19:47:28 [dch_]: asf vm:


# 12. asf vm #
19:48:03 [dch_]: um we talked about having a sacred ASF couchdb for replicating Things from, that we recommend and can show the provenance of. e.g. fauxton etc for example.
19:48:25 [Wohali]: moo
19:48:25 [dch_]: infra are happy to give a freebsd jail or a ubuntu vm
19:48:40 [nslater]: sweet
19:49:04 [nslater]: you know what i would like?
19:49:04 [dch_]: I have no real idea if we prefer one over the other, and I have no intention of ending up being admin (as there are surely others more competent)
19:49:04 [Wohali]: q: does infra have a continuous delivery approach for that?
19:49:11 [nslater]: a freakin couchdb tutorial, in a live js console, on our homepage
19:49:19 [dch_]: 1) what do we want?
19:49:34 [Wohali]: meaning: is there a chef/puppet/whatever approach we should be building to deploy to that, and as a service for our users?
19:49:34 [nslater]: Wohali: most likely it will just be a vm that we get root on
19:49:49 [nslater]: Wohali: so we can do whatever we wnt
19:49:56 [dch_]: 2) what's involved in looking after this? are there any volunteers?
19:49:58 [Wohali]: ok
19:50:11 [Wohali]: so no centralized provisioning approach available or mandated.
19:50:26 [nslater]: dch where was the original conversation about this? i dont recall it
19:50:28 [Wohali]: kocolosk: want to chef this one up too?
19:50:41 [Wohali]: nslater: i recall it from a week you weren't here, maybe 3-4 week sago?
19:50:41 [kocolosk]: sure
19:50:49 [nslater]: k
19:50:56 [Wohali]: ok koco and iwill take an ubuntu VM and chef it up
19:51:03 [dch_]: Wohali: that would be a great idea. rumour has it you anty folk are experts.
19:51:10 [Wohali]: lol
19:51:12 [Wohali]: trial by fire :)
19:51:12 [kocolosk]: :)
19:51:24 [Wohali]: yeah, strong pref for ubuntu over fbsd jail.
19:51:26 [dch_]: #action kocolosk and Wohali to cook up a storm of couch chefness
19:51:31 [nslater]: oh ooh
19:51:31 [nslater]: here's an old topic
19:51:34 [Wohali]: brb
19:51:39 [nslater]: i want an AWS AMI in the market place
19:51:46 [nslater]: so you can boot up couchdb with a single click
19:51:46 [kocolosk]: 
ACTION nods

19:51:49 [dch_]: #action dch to send the vm request


# 13. provisioning #
19:52:03 [dch_]: #info aws marketplace idea
19:52:31 [nslater]: dch i think the marketplace idea, and the js console thing should be defered


# 14. any other business #
19:53:09 [nslater]: nop
19:53:16 [dch_]: last call for stuff before I fill up my wine glass.
19:53:54 [dch_]: 
ACTION pours

19:53:56 [dch_]: thanks everybody, have a good evening/day/morning!
19:54:54 [dch_]: #action Kxepal kocolosk Wohali will be working on a jira process