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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2001/10/02 14:03:58 UTC
[IMPORTANT] Good names don't change
As we start taking about new features and new things that might change
the inner workings of Cocoon, we should *not* call this effort Cocoon3,
and we should stop calling Cocoon, Cocoon2. This leads a sense of
"forking" that is dangerous to the user community.
As we enter the time where Cocoon 2.0 reaches stability and can enter
production, we *must* understand that users (and we all, for that
matter) are investing lots of resources into this, since learning Cocoon
is not exactly a piece of cake.
When Cocoon 2.0 is released, Cocoon 1.x becomes old stuff and will have
a 6 months transition where we'll suggest users to upgrade and then
we'll consider 1.x obsolete.
We'll do 2.0.x releases that incorporate fully-back-compatible bugfixes
and 2.x releases when we'll be forced to do back-incompatible changes
(that we'll document and state clearly, also, if possible, creating
tools that migrate automatically from earlier versions).
The project has grown up.
People are going to use it in production environments and nothing is
going to stop us technically to get to a leading position in the XML
publishing world, we are the only one that can ruin that and one way to
ruin this is to give a sense of "moving target" to users or people that
are deciding whether or not to use Cocoon.
The same thing must be said for Avalon and for all other technologies
that want to be considered "adult" in the software world.
So, I kindly suggest you people to stop using the terms Cocoon2, C2 or
even worse Cocoon3 or C3 after Cocoon 2.0 is released.
Just another thing: the URI
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon2/
is *BAD*, we are already creating tons of broken links when we'll have
to remove that and turn back to the *only* cocoon URI which is
http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/
but I understand this was done with good intentions and we can fix that
with little hassle.
But, please, from now on, let's be more careful on the future.
So, discussing RT is great and gives the sense that this community is
fun and productive.
Now, it's time to give the impression we are also responsible and
trustful and this starts by behaving as one when controlling the
evolution of the project.
Let's keep up the great work.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
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AW: [IMPORTANT] Good names don't change
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@sundn.de>.
I totally agree! We should simply use Cocoon (or
Apache Cocoon).
As I was aware that this will arise some day, all
references to the project name in the documentation
is done by using tokens (@docname@ and @doctitle@).
We can simply change same in the build.xml and voila
all references to the version disappear...well
there will be some minor problems with this, but it
should do the main work for us.
Please don't ask me why it's called docname and
doctitle...
Carsten
> -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@apache.org]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2001 14:04
> An: Cocoon
> Betreff: [IMPORTANT] Good names don't change
>
>
> As we start taking about new features and new things that might change
> the inner workings of Cocoon, we should *not* call this effort Cocoon3,
> and we should stop calling Cocoon, Cocoon2. This leads a sense of
> "forking" that is dangerous to the user community.
>
> As we enter the time where Cocoon 2.0 reaches stability and can enter
> production, we *must* understand that users (and we all, for that
> matter) are investing lots of resources into this, since learning Cocoon
> is not exactly a piece of cake.
>
> When Cocoon 2.0 is released, Cocoon 1.x becomes old stuff and will have
> a 6 months transition where we'll suggest users to upgrade and then
> we'll consider 1.x obsolete.
>
> We'll do 2.0.x releases that incorporate fully-back-compatible bugfixes
> and 2.x releases when we'll be forced to do back-incompatible changes
> (that we'll document and state clearly, also, if possible, creating
> tools that migrate automatically from earlier versions).
>
> The project has grown up.
>
> People are going to use it in production environments and nothing is
> going to stop us technically to get to a leading position in the XML
> publishing world, we are the only one that can ruin that and one way to
> ruin this is to give a sense of "moving target" to users or people that
> are deciding whether or not to use Cocoon.
>
> The same thing must be said for Avalon and for all other technologies
> that want to be considered "adult" in the software world.
>
> So, I kindly suggest you people to stop using the terms Cocoon2, C2 or
> even worse Cocoon3 or C3 after Cocoon 2.0 is released.
>
> Just another thing: the URI
>
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon2/
>
> is *BAD*, we are already creating tons of broken links when we'll have
> to remove that and turn back to the *only* cocoon URI which is
>
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/
>
> but I understand this was done with good intentions and we can fix that
> with little hassle.
>
> But, please, from now on, let's be more careful on the future.
>
> So, discussing RT is great and gives the sense that this community is
> fun and productive.
>
> Now, it's time to give the impression we are also responsible and
> trustful and this starts by behaving as one when controlling the
> evolution of the project.
>
> Let's keep up the great work.
>
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be
> able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <st...@apache.org> Friedrich Nietzsche
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
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Re: [IMPORTANT] Good names don't change
Posted by giacomo <gi...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2001, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
Hi folks. I'm back working on the list and as you can see I'm way behind
the head of the mails.
> As we start taking about new features and new things that might change
> the inner workings of Cocoon, we should *not* call this effort Cocoon3,
> and we should stop calling Cocoon, Cocoon2. This leads a sense of
> "forking" that is dangerous to the user community.
Totally aggree. Keep the branding ;)
>
> As we enter the time where Cocoon 2.0 reaches stability and can enter
> production, we *must* understand that users (and we all, for that
> matter) are investing lots of resources into this, since learning Cocoon
> is not exactly a piece of cake.
>
> When Cocoon 2.0 is released, Cocoon 1.x becomes old stuff and will have
> a 6 months transition where we'll suggest users to upgrade and then
> we'll consider 1.x obsolete.
Yes, as all of you had seen Cocoon 1.x as become an orphan so far
because all developpers knowing Cocoon 1.x were gone (and one has been
returned ;).
>
> We'll do 2.0.x releases that incorporate fully-back-compatible bugfixes
> and 2.x releases when we'll be forced to do back-incompatible changes
> (that we'll document and state clearly, also, if possible, creating
> tools that migrate automatically from earlier versions).
+1
>
> The project has grown up.
>
> People are going to use it in production environments and nothing is
> going to stop us technically to get to a leading position in the XML
> publishing world, we are the only one that can ruin that and one way to
> ruin this is to give a sense of "moving target" to users or people that
> are deciding whether or not to use Cocoon.
>
> The same thing must be said for Avalon and for all other technologies
> that want to be considered "adult" in the software world.
>
> So, I kindly suggest you people to stop using the terms Cocoon2, C2 or
> even worse Cocoon3 or C3 after Cocoon 2.0 is released.
>
> Just another thing: the URI
>
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon2/
>
> is *BAD*, we are already creating tons of broken links when we'll have
> to remove that and turn back to the *only* cocoon URI which is
This has been introduced due to the split of the CVS. It was not
practicable to have both version produce theire site docs in a
acceptable way.
> http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/
>
> but I understand this was done with good intentions and we can fix that
> with little hassle.
Hopefully.
>
> But, please, from now on, let's be more careful on the future.
>
> So, discussing RT is great and gives the sense that this community is
> fun and productive.
>
> Now, it's time to give the impression we are also responsible and
> trustful and this starts by behaving as one when controlling the
> evolution of the project.
>
> Let's keep up the great work.
I'd like to congratulate all developers for their awesome work in the
last couple of weeks (yes I've walked through the cvs list ;)
Giacomo
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