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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> on 2005/12/23 18:47:26 UTC
Growth Summary
I'd like summarize the discussion so far, with comments
regarding my own PoV...
Q: Is the Incubator out of control?
A: No, it's not. The Incubator is actually working out
quite well, and performing its duties. Yes, occasionally
some things slip through the cracks, but "out of
control" hardly describes it. Note that whether or
not the Incubator is in or out of control is a
different question that anything regarding growth.
Q: Ok Mister Smart guy, is the ASF growing too quickly?
A: I'm sure that some members feel that we may be doing
so. I feel we are growing quickly, but wouldn't say
that it is "too" quickly. Certainly from a board
perspective, we could grow quite a bit (say double
the current size) with no real impact. And
Infrastructure is currently making plans on how
to handle growth and scale issues.
Q: Is the ASF doing anything to control growth?
A: There are 2 ways that the ASF grows. One is the addition
of additional members, PMC members and committers to the
community. I don't think that people, right now, are
too concerned about this type of growth, except maybe from
the membership aspect, and that's mostly for quorum legal
reasons (but again, I'm sure that some members likely
have some concerns about members being added before they
"should" be). No, it appears that most of the concern
is about growth of the number of projects, and I'm guessing
that this is what your question is really concerned about...
Q: Yes, it is. So, what's the answer?
A: All new projects (and incoming codebases) arrive at the
ASF via the Incubator. Without going into too much detail,
Incubated projects do not become ASF projects until
the are voted on graduation by the Incubator PMC. Thus,
the Incubator PMC serves as a gatekeeper for new ASF
projects.
Q: The Incubator controls who leaves... who controls who
enters? It seems like both are needed.
A: Yes, and there are controls for who enters as well.
Applicants must be sponsored by a current PMC, or
the board. There is currently some discussion on
whether the Incubator can (or should) also have some
say in this. Some feel that such a thing is either
outside of the "powers" given to the Incubator, or would
constitute undue influence of one PMC over another.
Others feel that the Incubator would be serving as
the eyes and ears of the board to ensure the continued
health of the ASF overall by having some say, a form
of "checks and balances."
Q: Sounds like a control issue... What's wrong with these
people!?
A: No, it's not. The people discussing this have a very deep
affinity for the ASF. They want what's best for the ASF,
and as with most things in life, sometimes people have
different points of views. It's unfair and inaccurate
to describe people as either careless (at the one end
of the spectrum) or control freaks (at the other).
Q: So why all the discussion?
A: The worst time to come to a consensus about an issue,
is when it is imminent. Being proactive is always a
good thing.
Q: So who decides?
A: The members do.
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Re: Growth Summary
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Dec 23, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On December 23, 2005 12:47:26 PM -0500 Jim Jagielski
> <ji...@jaguNET.com> wrote:
>
>> Q: The Incubator controls who leaves... who controls who
>> enters? It seems like both are needed.
>> A: Yes, and there are controls for who enters as well.
>> Applicants must be sponsored by a current PMC, or
>> the board. There is currently some discussion on
>
> I thought the Board delegated the initial proposal approval of new
> TLP projects (i.e. no sponsoring PMC) to the Incubator PMC? As a
> checkpoint, the Board will certify the *exit* of podling's TLPs
> after the Incubator certifies again. When a project has PMC
> approval, the Incubaotr PMC alone can do the certification of exit.
>
The board has always reserved the right to sponsor a new project. That
doesn't go away, even when we want the Incubator to do it.
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Re: Growth Summary
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> --On December 23, 2005 12:47:26 PM -0500 Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Q: The Incubator controls who leaves... who controls who
>> enters? It seems like both are needed.
>> A: Yes, and there are controls for who enters as well.
>> Applicants must be sponsored by a current PMC, or
>> the board. There is currently some discussion on
>
> I thought the Board delegated the initial proposal approval of new TLP
> projects (i.e. no sponsoring PMC) to the Incubator PMC? As a
> checkpoint, the Board will certify the *exit* of podling's TLPs after
> the Incubator certifies again. When a project has PMC approval, the
> Incubaotr PMC alone can do the certification of exit.
It effectively works out that way.
As a current PMC, the incubator can sponsor a proposal. In fact, the
incubator policy[1] explicitly calls out this case.
I don't expect the board to ever sponsor a project again - but then
again the board hasn't given up the right to do so.
- Sam Ruby
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Sponsor
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Re: Growth Summary
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
--On December 23, 2005 12:47:26 PM -0500 Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>
wrote:
> Q: The Incubator controls who leaves... who controls who
> enters? It seems like both are needed.
> A: Yes, and there are controls for who enters as well.
> Applicants must be sponsored by a current PMC, or
> the board. There is currently some discussion on
I thought the Board delegated the initial proposal approval of new TLP
projects (i.e. no sponsoring PMC) to the Incubator PMC? As a checkpoint,
the Board will certify the *exit* of podling's TLPs after the Incubator
certifies again. When a project has PMC approval, the Incubaotr PMC alone
can do the certification of exit.
Nice synergy there, methinks. -- justin
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