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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org> on 2003/09/25 04:15:10 UTC
[vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Folks,
JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons, so it
may have a life elsewhere.
+1
Regards,
Juanco
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 06:56 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo Añez wrote:
>
>>> I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
>>> recommend against it.
>>
>> I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
>> for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
>>
>> In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is
>> because
>> I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
>> because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
>> manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less
>> visible.
>
> People do do this on the apache servers too. Not with wild abandon, but
> for reasonable reasons it happens. Your shell account has access to do
> this.
>
> Usually the 'community' ought to be checked with before doing such a
> thing, just for sanities sake, but as you're the only active committer on
> jrcs you represent the sandboxed community.
i should warn everyone that infrastructure team don't like people editing
repositories on the ASF servers. it's pretty easy to refactor code out
without going onto the server and editing the repositories manually.
manually deleting stuff from the repository means that the ASF loses it's
permanent record of the code development and that's pretty important.
there are some times that this kind of editing is needed but a polite
request to the infrastructure (infrastructure at apache.org) team is the
right way to do this.
- robert
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Monday, September 29, 2003, at 06:56 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo Añez wrote:
>
>>> I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
>>> recommend against it.
>>
>> I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
>> for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
>>
>> In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is
>> because
>> I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
>> because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
>> manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less
>> visible.
>
> People do do this on the apache servers too. Not with wild abandon, but
> for reasonable reasons it happens. Your shell account has access to do
> this.
>
> Usually the 'community' ought to be checked with before doing such a
> thing, just for sanities sake, but as you're the only active committer on
> jrcs you represent the sandboxed community.
i should warn everyone that infrastructure team don't like people editing
repositories on the ASF servers. it's pretty easy to refactor code out
without going onto the server and editing the repositories manually.
manually deleting stuff from the repository means that the ASF loses it's
permanent record of the code development and that's pretty important.
there are some times that this kind of editing is needed but a polite
request to the infrastructure (infrastructure at apache.org) team is the
right way to do this.
- robert
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> > I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
> > recommend against it.
>
> I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
> for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
>
> In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is because
> I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
> because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
> manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less visible.
People do do this on the apache servers too. Not with wild abandon, but
for reasonable reasons it happens. Your shell account has access to do
this.
Usually the 'community' ought to be checked with before doing such a
thing, just for sanities sake, but as you're the only active committer on
jrcs you represent the sandboxed community.
> After moving the project elsewhere, my plan was to:
>
> * Split the diff engine from archive manipulation
>
> * Find a name for the diff engine (JDiff is overloaded) [perjaps
> "prefix-diff"?].
>
> * Give each subproject its own page and repository.
An alternative would be to split the stable bit off and get it to commons
proper, but remove the unstable bit back to your own control.
> Can that be done here without too much delay or red tape?
Depends. If you grokk commons already and know what to do at each step,
it's pretty easy to smooth things along. If you've got to bounce into
these each time, then it can slog along. Minimum time to get a component
into commons proper and released would be about 2 weeks I think. You've
got two votes to fit in there [one to commons-proper and one for release].
Biggest stumbling block would be lack of a community blocking the
commons-proper vote.
> The only thing that should not happen is that the project is made visible
> here and somewhere else at the same time.
Agreed.
> I have already been offered hosting for the project elsewhere. I'm wating
> for this discussion to arrive to a conclusion before making a move. The
> voting, as I remember, was +2 -1. My own criteria is that uless at least a
> couple of committers voluntier to do project maintenance (especially the
> admin stuff), I should think that there's not much interest for the project
> here, that Jakarta is in fact not endorsing it, and that it makes most sense
> to move the project out.
Unless you have a community of interested developers [3 or more], I don't
think it would make sense to stay here. If JRCS had had public space on
the website for the last year, it may have gotten that, but as it didn't
[partly due to your lack of time, partly because the website has no
centralised management] I don't think it would be fair to you to keep the
code sitting in situ for another year while a community builds.
Hen
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> > I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
> > recommend against it.
>
> I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
> for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
>
> In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is because
> I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
> because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
> manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less visible.
People do do this on the apache servers too. Not with wild abandon, but
for reasonable reasons it happens. Your shell account has access to do
this.
Usually the 'community' ought to be checked with before doing such a
thing, just for sanities sake, but as you're the only active committer on
jrcs you represent the sandboxed community.
> After moving the project elsewhere, my plan was to:
>
> * Split the diff engine from archive manipulation
>
> * Find a name for the diff engine (JDiff is overloaded) [perjaps
> "prefix-diff"?].
>
> * Give each subproject its own page and repository.
An alternative would be to split the stable bit off and get it to commons
proper, but remove the unstable bit back to your own control.
> Can that be done here without too much delay or red tape?
Depends. If you grokk commons already and know what to do at each step,
it's pretty easy to smooth things along. If you've got to bounce into
these each time, then it can slog along. Minimum time to get a component
into commons proper and released would be about 2 weeks I think. You've
got two votes to fit in there [one to commons-proper and one for release].
Biggest stumbling block would be lack of a community blocking the
commons-proper vote.
> The only thing that should not happen is that the project is made visible
> here and somewhere else at the same time.
Agreed.
> I have already been offered hosting for the project elsewhere. I'm wating
> for this discussion to arrive to a conclusion before making a move. The
> voting, as I remember, was +2 -1. My own criteria is that uless at least a
> couple of committers voluntier to do project maintenance (especially the
> admin stuff), I should think that there's not much interest for the project
> here, that Jakarta is in fact not endorsing it, and that it makes most sense
> to move the project out.
Unless you have a community of interested developers [3 or more], I don't
think it would make sense to stay here. If JRCS had had public space on
the website for the last year, it may have gotten that, but as it didn't
[partly due to your lack of time, partly because the website has no
centralised management] I don't think it would be fair to you to keep the
code sitting in situ for another year while a community builds.
Hen
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Hello Serge,
> You have shell access to the ASF CVS server, so you can already do
> backups of the repository.
I didn't know that. I checked, and yes, I can go in.
> I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
> recommend against it.
I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is because
I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less visible.
> Sandbox is where things go by default, but I agree that it should get
> promoted out of sandbox from my use of it. This is an opposite
> direction though of moving JRCS off. :) are you softening to the idea
> of keeping it here?
The diff engine is ready for prime-time, as it has been used extensively by
several different people, so it could go into the commons proper.
The archive manipulation is stable, but it's incomplete (there's no
knowledge about binary files in it), and, though reading of archives works
fine, I wont't use the tool on my live repositories until someone writes a
serious set of tests for that (someone already did this, but he couldn't
publish the test suite because it worked on private files).
After moving the project elsewhere, my plan was to:
* Split the diff engine from archive manipulation
* Find a name for the diff engine (JDiff is overloaded) [perjaps
"prefix-diff"?].
* Give each subproject its own page and repository.
Can that be done here without too much delay or red tape?
After that, I'm planning to make the following changes:
* Reimplement Revision.toString() and Revision.toRCSString() using the
already available visitor pattern, so they serve as examples for others to
implement their own Revision->plain-text conversions.
* Perhaps reimplement the diff engine in terms of java.util.List to give
some hope to folks who want to apply the Myers algorithm to really large
input sequences.
* Add support for binaries (-kb) to jrcs.
* Add a user guide to both subprojects.
The only thing that should not happen is that the project is made visible
here and somewhere else at the same time.
I have already been offered hosting for the project elsewhere. I'm wating
for this discussion to arrive to a conclusion before making a move. The
voting, as I remember, was +2 -1. My own criteria is that uless at least a
couple of committers voluntier to do project maintenance (especially the
admin stuff), I should think that there's not much interest for the project
here, that Jakarta is in fact not endorsing it, and that it makes most sense
to move the project out.
Juanca
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Hello Serge,
> You have shell access to the ASF CVS server, so you can already do
> backups of the repository.
I didn't know that. I checked, and yes, I can go in.
> I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
> recommend against it.
I've done repository manipulation (moving files around, basically) before
for what I think are valid reasons. I always do a full backup first.
In this case, the reason for wanting to manipulate the repository is because
I think that the differencing engine should be split from JRCS. That's
because more people have interest in the engine than in archive
manipulation, and bundling the two libraries makes the engine less visible.
> Sandbox is where things go by default, but I agree that it should get
> promoted out of sandbox from my use of it. This is an opposite
> direction though of moving JRCS off. :) are you softening to the idea
> of keeping it here?
The diff engine is ready for prime-time, as it has been used extensively by
several different people, so it could go into the commons proper.
The archive manipulation is stable, but it's incomplete (there's no
knowledge about binary files in it), and, though reading of archives works
fine, I wont't use the tool on my live repositories until someone writes a
serious set of tests for that (someone already did this, but he couldn't
publish the test suite because it worked on private files).
After moving the project elsewhere, my plan was to:
* Split the diff engine from archive manipulation
* Find a name for the diff engine (JDiff is overloaded) [perjaps
"prefix-diff"?].
* Give each subproject its own page and repository.
Can that be done here without too much delay or red tape?
After that, I'm planning to make the following changes:
* Reimplement Revision.toString() and Revision.toRCSString() using the
already available visitor pattern, so they serve as examples for others to
implement their own Revision->plain-text conversions.
* Perhaps reimplement the diff engine in terms of java.util.List to give
some hope to folks who want to apply the Myers algorithm to really large
input sequences.
* Add support for binaries (-kb) to jrcs.
* Add a user guide to both subprojects.
The only thing that should not happen is that the project is made visible
here and somewhere else at the same time.
I have already been offered hosting for the project elsewhere. I'm wating
for this discussion to arrive to a conclusion before making a move. The
voting, as I remember, was +2 -1. My own criteria is that uless at least a
couple of committers voluntier to do project maintenance (especially the
admin stuff), I should think that there's not much interest for the project
here, that Jakarta is in fact not endorsing it, and that it makes most sense
to move the project out.
Juanca
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> It's things like being able to make backups of the CVS repository, which is
> the only reliable trace of people's contributions, or being able to patch
> the repository by hand to fix historical flaws.
You have shell access to the ASF CVS server, so you can already do
backups of the repository. Once more, people are already doing that for
you. I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
recommend against it.
> Also, although I know that documentation is probably lacking, JRCS doesn't
> deserve a sandbox (less an invisibility) status because its the diff engine
> is sound, ant the CVS archive manipulation stuff has already been put
> through a serious amount of strain, though not by me.
Sandbox is where things go by default, but I agree that it should get
promoted out of sandbox from my use of it. This is an opposite
direction though of moving JRCS off. :) are you softening to the idea
of keeping it here?
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >>> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> It's things like being able to make backups of the CVS repository, which is
> the only reliable trace of people's contributions, or being able to patch
> the repository by hand to fix historical flaws.
You have shell access to the ASF CVS server, so you can already do
backups of the repository. Once more, people are already doing that for
you. I suppose you could edit history files, but I really would
recommend against it.
> Also, although I know that documentation is probably lacking, JRCS doesn't
> deserve a sandbox (less an invisibility) status because its the diff engine
> is sound, ant the CVS archive manipulation stuff has already been put
> through a serious amount of strain, though not by me.
Sandbox is where things go by default, but I agree that it should get
promoted out of sandbox from my use of it. This is an opposite
direction though of moving JRCS off. :) are you softening to the idea
of keeping it here?
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >>> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> What do you see as needed as part of the project's day-to-day work?
> This is just being able to update content on your website?
It's things like being able to make backups of the CVS repository, which is
the only reliable trace of people's contributions, or being able to patch
the repository by hand to fix historical flaws.
Also, although I know that documentation is probably lacking, JRCS doesn't
deserve a sandbox (less an invisibility) status because its the diff engine
is sound, ant the CVS archive manipulation stuff has already been put
through a serious amount of strain, though not by me.
Juanco
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> What do you see as needed as part of the project's day-to-day work?
> This is just being able to update content on your website?
It's things like being able to make backups of the CVS repository, which is
the only reliable trace of people's contributions, or being able to patch
the repository by hand to fix historical flaws.
Also, although I know that documentation is probably lacking, JRCS doesn't
deserve a sandbox (less an invisibility) status because its the diff engine
is sound, ant the CVS archive manipulation stuff has already been put
through a serious amount of strain, though not by me.
Juanco
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> Thanks for your generous offer.
>
> I think that moving up the project to the visible sandbox would not solve
> the main problem, which is that I don't have the time to deal with the
> complexity of the Jakarta site set up nor with the high volume of messages
> in the commons mailing list.
>
> I think it would be best if I move the project out to a site that's more
> under my control and simpler to deal with. I think that users and developers
> of the tool will benefit alike.
>
> Another posibility would be to move the project's day to day to another
> site, but to keep it as part of the Jakarta commons.
Fair enough. If the issue was just some help getting setup, then I'd be
happy to help, but if you want more control, I can understand.
What do you see as needed as part of the project's day-to-day work?
This is just being able to update content on your website?
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> Thanks for your generous offer.
>
> I think that moving up the project to the visible sandbox would not solve
> the main problem, which is that I don't have the time to deal with the
> complexity of the Jakarta site set up nor with the high volume of messages
> in the commons mailing list.
>
> I think it would be best if I move the project out to a site that's more
> under my control and simpler to deal with. I think that users and developers
> of the tool will benefit alike.
>
> Another posibility would be to move the project's day to day to another
> site, but to keep it as part of the Jakarta commons.
Fair enough. If the issue was just some help getting setup, then I'd be
happy to help, but if you want more control, I can understand.
What do you see as needed as part of the project's day-to-day work?
This is just being able to update content on your website?
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> If it's just a question of getting it incorporated, let's do that! I
> find it's a great utility and would hate to see it leave Jakarta. I
> think you'll get some actual benefit out of having it in Jakarta commons
> if it appears in it.
Thanks for your generous offer.
I think that moving up the project to the visible sandbox would not solve
the main problem, which is that I don't have the time to deal with the
complexity of the Jakarta site set up nor with the high volume of messages
in the commons mailing list.
I think it would be best if I move the project out to a site that's more
under my control and simpler to deal with. I think that users and developers
of the tool will benefit alike.
Another posibility would be to move the project's day to day to another
site, but to keep it as part of the Jakarta commons.
Regards,
Juanca
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> If it's just a question of getting it incorporated, let's do that! I
> find it's a great utility and would hate to see it leave Jakarta. I
> think you'll get some actual benefit out of having it in Jakarta commons
> if it appears in it.
Thanks for your generous offer.
I think that moving up the project to the visible sandbox would not solve
the main problem, which is that I don't have the time to deal with the
complexity of the Jakarta site set up nor with the high volume of messages
in the commons mailing list.
I think it would be best if I move the project out to a site that's more
under my control and simpler to deal with. I think that users and developers
of the tool will benefit alike.
Another posibility would be to move the project's day to day to another
site, but to keep it as part of the Jakarta commons.
Regards,
Juanca
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> I would move it to my own server or to SourceForge.
>
[...]
>
> I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at least
> not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
> Jakarta.
Juanca,
If it's just a question of getting it incorporated, let's do that! I
find it's a great utility and would hate to see it leave Jakarta. I
think you'll get some actual benefit out of having it in Jakarta commons
if it appears in it.
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> I would move it to my own server or to SourceForge.
>
[...]
>
> I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at least
> not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
> Jakarta.
Juanca,
If it's just a question of getting it incorporated, let's do that! I
find it's a great utility and would hate to see it leave Jakarta. I
think you'll get some actual benefit out of having it in Jakarta commons
if it appears in it.
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Hen,
> At the same time though, I don't want to get Juanco bogged down in red
> tape for a pedantic reason, so it's not a big deal for me.
It could not have been a big deal as far as, as things stand, I could have
taken the project elsewhere without anyone noticing.
Juanco
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Hen,
> At the same time though, I don't want to get Juanco bogged down in red
> tape for a pedantic reason, so it's not a big deal for me.
It could not have been a big deal as far as, as things stand, I could have
taken the project elsewhere without anyone noticing.
Juanco
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On 26 Sep 2003, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 01:34, Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
> > obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF.
>
> The original author also retains copyright. And given that no one else
Really? Good.
> has contributed to the project Juan is basically the only committer, in
> addition the project is in the sandbox. It is really only a problem if
> the ASF were going to pursue anything and is it really for a project in
> the sandbox with a single author who wishes to leave and keep the name
> of his project. Probably not.
I'd like it if there were some nice plan by which we can let this kind of
thing happen. A statement from the PMC or something saying that they
relinquish the copyright on the project or something.
At the same time though, I don't want to get Juanco bogged down in red
tape for a pedantic reason, so it's not a big deal for me.
Hen
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On 26 Sep 2003, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 01:34, Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
> > obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF.
>
> The original author also retains copyright. And given that no one else
Really? Good.
> has contributed to the project Juan is basically the only committer, in
> addition the project is in the sandbox. It is really only a problem if
> the ASF were going to pursue anything and is it really for a project in
> the sandbox with a single author who wishes to leave and keep the name
> of his project. Probably not.
I'd like it if there were some nice plan by which we can let this kind of
thing happen. A statement from the PMC or something saying that they
relinquish the copyright on the project or something.
At the same time though, I don't want to get Juanco bogged down in red
tape for a pedantic reason, so it's not a big deal for me.
Hen
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Jason van Zyl <jv...@maven.org>.
On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 01:34, Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> >>>>>
> There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
> obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF.
The original author also retains copyright. And given that no one else
has contributed to the project Juan is basically the only committer, in
addition the project is in the sandbox. It is really only a problem if
the ASF were going to pursue anything and is it really for a project in
the sandbox with a single author who wishes to leave and keep the name
of his project. Probably not.
> Not a biggy
> under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
> giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
> name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
> quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
> 'incubation'.
> <<<<<
>
> Hen,
>
> I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the insight. In all honesty, I think
> that the name "JRCS" was always a bad choice, so I don't expect the name of
> the project to be an issue.
>
> Juanca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Jason van Zyl <jv...@maven.org>.
On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 01:34, Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> >>>>>
> There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
> obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF.
The original author also retains copyright. And given that no one else
has contributed to the project Juan is basically the only committer, in
addition the project is in the sandbox. It is really only a problem if
the ASF were going to pursue anything and is it really for a project in
the sandbox with a single author who wishes to leave and keep the name
of his project. Probably not.
> Not a biggy
> under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
> giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
> name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
> quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
> 'incubation'.
> <<<<<
>
> Hen,
>
> I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the insight. In all honesty, I think
> that the name "JRCS" was always a bad choice, so I don't expect the name of
> the project to be an issue.
>
> Juanca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org
In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
>>>>>
There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF. Not a biggy
under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
'incubation'.
<<<<<
Hen,
I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the insight. In all honesty, I think
that the name "JRCS" was always a bad choice, so I don't expect the name of
the project to be an issue.
Juanca
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
>>>>>
There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF. Not a biggy
under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
'incubation'.
<<<<<
Hen,
I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the insight. In all honesty, I think
that the name "JRCS" was always a bad choice, so I don't expect the name of
the project to be an issue.
Juanca
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Juanca,
I'll assist you in getting things going on publishing JRCS on the site
etc if you want. I'm clueless as to JRCS itself [okay, I bet it's an RCS
implementation of some kind], but I can quite happily change the site to
incorporate it for you and handle build/releases.
That being said, if your gut instinct is to pull the code out into an
environment closer to home I can sympathise. I recently pulled a project
off of sourceforge onto osjava.org because the SF building scheme is just
so damn painful that I found myself never releasing code.
Options I can think of:
1) Switch JRCS to the Apache incubator. I'm inclined to think this would
be a bad plan.
2) Promote JRCS in Jakarta Commons for a period of time, then decide later
on as to whether to migrate.
3) Migrate to personal server, or somewhere like codehaus/sourceforge. Or
even tigris, who might have an interest.
4) JRCS to Apache Commons. Again, I would think this is a bad plan in your
situation.
There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF. Not a biggy
under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
'incubation'.
Hen
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> Noel,
>
> > That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got
> here,
> > and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
>
> The project came to Jakarta at Jason's (Maven project) request, when the
> Maven project was evaluating ways for dealing with CVS repositories.
>
> After a while the Maven group decided to deal with CVS through the
> already-working Ant tasks, and we agreed to move RCS the project to the
> commons.
>
> The reason why the project isn't visible on the web page is because (despite
> the project having been donated over a year ago) I'm still new to the place,
> and I lack the time to learn the Jakarta way of publishing stuff (if you
> look at my web site, you'll probably find it "spartan", to say the least).
>
> I'm the kind of guy who will read, try to understand, and implement Eugene
> Myers' differencing algorithm that JRCS has now, but that feels like before
> a brick wall when trying to comply with the Jakarta web site setup.
>
> That's the story.
>
> Juanca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Juanca,
I'll assist you in getting things going on publishing JRCS on the site
etc if you want. I'm clueless as to JRCS itself [okay, I bet it's an RCS
implementation of some kind], but I can quite happily change the site to
incorporate it for you and handle build/releases.
That being said, if your gut instinct is to pull the code out into an
environment closer to home I can sympathise. I recently pulled a project
off of sourceforge onto osjava.org because the SF building scheme is just
so damn painful that I found myself never releasing code.
Options I can think of:
1) Switch JRCS to the Apache incubator. I'm inclined to think this would
be a bad plan.
2) Promote JRCS in Jakarta Commons for a period of time, then decide later
on as to whether to migrate.
3) Migrate to personal server, or somewhere like codehaus/sourceforge. Or
even tigris, who might have an interest.
4) JRCS to Apache Commons. Again, I would think this is a bad plan in your
situation.
There are some interesting legalities. When we donate code to Apache, we
obviously are giving ownership of that code over to the ASF. Not a biggy
under a BSD-like licence as we can just fork it. However, we're also
giving over the copyright on the name, so possibly ASF own 'JRCS' as a
name. If you decide to migrate away, we might just have to do a bit of
quick figuring out of an exit strategy for code that is effectively under
'incubation'.
Hen
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, [iso-8859-1] Juancarlo A�ez wrote:
> Noel,
>
> > That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got
> here,
> > and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
>
> The project came to Jakarta at Jason's (Maven project) request, when the
> Maven project was evaluating ways for dealing with CVS repositories.
>
> After a while the Maven group decided to deal with CVS through the
> already-working Ant tasks, and we agreed to move RCS the project to the
> commons.
>
> The reason why the project isn't visible on the web page is because (despite
> the project having been donated over a year ago) I'm still new to the place,
> and I lack the time to learn the Jakarta way of publishing stuff (if you
> look at my web site, you'll probably find it "spartan", to say the least).
>
> I'm the kind of guy who will read, try to understand, and implement Eugene
> Myers' differencing algorithm that JRCS has now, but that feels like before
> a brick wall when trying to comply with the Jakarta web site setup.
>
> That's the story.
>
> Juanca
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Noel,
> That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got
here,
> and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
The project came to Jakarta at Jason's (Maven project) request, when the
Maven project was evaluating ways for dealing with CVS repositories.
After a while the Maven group decided to deal with CVS through the
already-working Ant tasks, and we agreed to move RCS the project to the
commons.
The reason why the project isn't visible on the web page is because (despite
the project having been donated over a year ago) I'm still new to the place,
and I lack the time to learn the Jakarta way of publishing stuff (if you
look at my web site, you'll probably find it "spartan", to say the least).
I'm the kind of guy who will read, try to understand, and implement Eugene
Myers' differencing algorithm that JRCS has now, but that feels like before
a brick wall when trying to comply with the Jakarta web site setup.
That's the story.
Juanca
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Noel,
> That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got
here,
> and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
The project came to Jakarta at Jason's (Maven project) request, when the
Maven project was evaluating ways for dealing with CVS repositories.
After a while the Maven group decided to deal with CVS through the
already-working Ant tasks, and we agreed to move RCS the project to the
commons.
The reason why the project isn't visible on the web page is because (despite
the project having been donated over a year ago) I'm still new to the place,
and I lack the time to learn the Jakarta way of publishing stuff (if you
look at my web site, you'll probably find it "spartan", to say the least).
I'm the kind of guy who will read, try to understand, and implement Eugene
Myers' differencing algorithm that JRCS has now, but that feels like before
a brick wall when trying to comply with the Jakarta web site setup.
That's the story.
Juanca
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RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at
least
> not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
> Jakarta.
That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got here,
and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
--- Noel
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RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at
least
> not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
> Jakarta.
That should not be hard, actually. What is the history of how it got here,
and why it isn't on the web page(s)?
--- Noel
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> Anyone know where it is getting moved to?
I would move it to my own server or to SourceForge.
> I use it and find it quite a
> nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at least
not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
Jakarta.
Juanca
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Serge,
> Anyone know where it is getting moved to?
I would move it to my own server or to SourceForge.
> I use it and find it quite a
> nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
I have the compromise to keep developing the library, but I cannot (at least
not right now) put the effort to learn how to make the project visible at
Jakarta.
Juanca
[Daemon|JRCS] Gump Visibility ... Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
Folks wrote:
[JRCS]
> > The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in
so
> > few people are working on it.
>
> It IS invisible, hence no one (ok, few people) knows it is here.
[Daemon]
> > I believe that now is the right time to reform the API since it seems
> > like no one(*) is using it right now.
I believe that another way to raise the visibility is to participate in the
nightly Gump builds:
http://cvs.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/
Gump is under a going re-write
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?GumpPython) and is looking to
grow in what roles it performs. Yes, it helps with continuous integration,
but there is more it can do. Gump wants to assist projects working together,
assist with making and keeping friends. Gump is a social experiment, Gump
likes friends liking friends. ;-) Seriously though, Gump can and should help
with promoting reuse.
Gump recognizes and documents project inter-dependencies, the community
tells it & it combines that information, and as such it can tell you who it
knows is using your product. The new Gump documents this, even displays
modules in order of the number of projects using a project, and such. Gump
can and should promote good projects based upon their own good actions.
This is a work in progress (needs icons added) and probably some redesign,
but shows the concept.
http://gump.chalko.com/py/index.html
Some (rough) statistics:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/gump_stats/index.html
See dependees -- that is folks using this project:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/krysalis-version-core.html
BTW: These mails prompted me to add (see tomorrow) site url to description
here:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/index.html
I'd like to see Gump map/document as much OSS (particularly
younger/less-established Jakarta software) as it can. I'd like to see
increased re-use/use through active/automated communication, and I know the
Gump community are willing to work with teams, to help them tap into the
melting pot.
regards,
Adam
[Daemon|JRCS] Gump Visibility ... Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
Folks wrote:
[JRCS]
> > The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in
so
> > few people are working on it.
>
> It IS invisible, hence no one (ok, few people) knows it is here.
[Daemon]
> > I believe that now is the right time to reform the API since it seems
> > like no one(*) is using it right now.
I believe that another way to raise the visibility is to participate in the
nightly Gump builds:
http://cvs.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/
Gump is under a going re-write
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?GumpPython) and is looking to
grow in what roles it performs. Yes, it helps with continuous integration,
but there is more it can do. Gump wants to assist projects working together,
assist with making and keeping friends. Gump is a social experiment, Gump
likes friends liking friends. ;-) Seriously though, Gump can and should help
with promoting reuse.
Gump recognizes and documents project inter-dependencies, the community
tells it & it combines that information, and as such it can tell you who it
knows is using your product. The new Gump documents this, even displays
modules in order of the number of projects using a project, and such. Gump
can and should promote good projects based upon their own good actions.
This is a work in progress (needs icons added) and probably some redesign,
but shows the concept.
http://gump.chalko.com/py/index.html
Some (rough) statistics:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/gump_stats/index.html
See dependees -- that is folks using this project:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/krysalis-version-core.html
BTW: These mails prompted me to add (see tomorrow) site url to description
here:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/index.html
I'd like to see Gump map/document as much OSS (particularly
younger/less-established Jakarta software) as it can. I'd like to see
increased re-use/use through active/automated communication, and I know the
Gump community are willing to work with teams, to help them tap into the
melting pot.
regards,
Adam
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[Daemon|JRCS] Gump Visibility ... Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
Folks wrote:
[JRCS]
> > The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in
so
> > few people are working on it.
>
> It IS invisible, hence no one (ok, few people) knows it is here.
[Daemon]
> > I believe that now is the right time to reform the API since it seems
> > like no one(*) is using it right now.
I believe that another way to raise the visibility is to participate in the
nightly Gump builds:
http://cvs.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/
Gump is under a going re-write
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?GumpPython) and is looking to
grow in what roles it performs. Yes, it helps with continuous integration,
but there is more it can do. Gump wants to assist projects working together,
assist with making and keeping friends. Gump is a social experiment, Gump
likes friends liking friends. ;-) Seriously though, Gump can and should help
with promoting reuse.
Gump recognizes and documents project inter-dependencies, the community
tells it & it combines that information, and as such it can tell you who it
knows is using your product. The new Gump documents this, even displays
modules in order of the number of projects using a project, and such. Gump
can and should promote good projects based upon their own good actions.
This is a work in progress (needs icons added) and probably some redesign,
but shows the concept.
http://gump.chalko.com/py/index.html
Some (rough) statistics:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/gump_stats/index.html
See dependees -- that is folks using this project:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/krysalis-version-core.html
BTW: These mails prompted me to add (see tomorrow) site url to description
here:
http://gump.chalko.com/py/krysalis-version/index.html
I'd like to see Gump map/document as much OSS (particularly
younger/less-established Jakarta software) as it can. I'd like to see
increased re-use/use through active/automated communication, and I know the
Gump community are willing to work with teams, to help them tap into the
melting pot.
regards,
Adam
RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in so
> few people are working on it.
It IS invisible, hence no one (ok, few people) knows it is here.
> The practical problem is that (for personal reasons) I haven't had the
time
> or willingness to learn the Jakarta site setup nor how to push the right
> buttons to make the project visible there.
Serge Knystautas just volunteered to help you get the web pages started, and
has an interest in JRCS graduating from the Sandbox into Commons proper.
--- Noel
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RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in so
> few people are working on it.
It IS invisible, hence no one (ok, few people) knows it is here.
> The practical problem is that (for personal reasons) I haven't had the
time
> or willingness to learn the Jakarta site setup nor how to push the right
> buttons to make the project visible there.
Serge Knystautas just volunteered to help you get the web pages started, and
has an interest in JRCS graduating from the Sandbox into Commons proper.
--- Noel
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Noel,
> So my vote is to keep it, actually let people know it is here, and THEN
see
> if it gains traction.
The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in so
few people are working on it.
The practical problem is that (for personal reasons) I haven't had the time
or willingness to learn the Jakarta site setup nor how to push the right
buttons to make the project visible there.
The bottom-line problem is that I do still maintain the project, and others
do too, but they do so through private e-mail communication with me.
The addition of the Myer's differencing algorithm was done completely
outside of the Jakarta commons, never mind that the CVS repository resides
there.
> -1 to move (at this time)
Will you volunteer to make the project visible at the commons?
Juanca
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Juancarlo Añez <ju...@suigeneris.org>.
Noel,
> So my vote is to keep it, actually let people know it is here, and THEN
see
> if it gains traction.
The obvious problem is that the project is becomming invisible, and in so
few people are working on it.
The practical problem is that (for personal reasons) I haven't had the time
or willingness to learn the Jakarta site setup nor how to push the right
buttons to make the project visible there.
The bottom-line problem is that I do still maintain the project, and others
do too, but they do so through private e-mail communication with me.
The addition of the Myer's differencing algorithm was done completely
outside of the Jakarta commons, never mind that the CVS repository resides
there.
> -1 to move (at this time)
Will you volunteer to make the project visible at the commons?
Juanca
RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
>> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
>> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons
> Anyone know where it is getting moved to? I use it and find it quite a
> nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
Maybe instead of being removed, it should be added? I had no idea it was
even HERE because it is not listed on the Jakarta Commons index page. I had
to look here, http://www.suigeneris.org/jrcs/, after using Google to find
it!
And I know several projects that would be interested in a decent Java diff
engine.
So my vote is to keep it, actually let people know it is here, and THEN see
if it gains traction.
-1 to move (at this time)
--- Noel
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RE: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
>> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
>> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons
> Anyone know where it is getting moved to? I use it and find it quite a
> nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
Maybe instead of being removed, it should be added? I had no idea it was
even HERE because it is not listed on the Jakarta Commons index page. I had
to look here, http://www.suigeneris.org/jrcs/, after using Google to find
it!
And I know several projects that would be interested in a decent Java diff
engine.
So my vote is to keep it, actually let people know it is here, and THEN see
if it gains traction.
-1 to move (at this time)
--- Noel
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Anyone know where it is getting moved to? I use it and find it quite a
nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
__matthewHawthorne wrote:
> +1
>
> Juancarlo Añez wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
>> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>>
>> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons, so it
>> may have a life elsewhere.
>>
>> +1
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by Serge Knystautas <se...@lokitech.com>.
Anyone know where it is getting moved to? I use it and find it quite a
nice library, and would like to keep track of it.
--
Serge Knystautas
President
Lokitech >> software . strategy . design >> http://www.lokitech.com
p. 301.656.5501
e. sergek@lokitech.com
__matthewHawthorne wrote:
> +1
>
> Juancarlo Añez wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
>> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>>
>> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons, so it
>> may have a life elsewhere.
>>
>> +1
Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by __matthewHawthorne <ma...@phreaker.net>.
+1
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> Folks,
>
> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>
> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons, so it
> may have a life elsewhere.
>
> +1
>
> Regards,
>
> Juanco
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Re: [vote] Move JRCS out of Jakarta
Posted by __matthewHawthorne <ma...@phreaker.net>.
+1
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> Folks,
>
> JRCS is practically invisible here, and no one has volunteered to make it
> visible within the complex jakarta site setup.
>
> I vote for the JRCS project to be removed from the Jakarta commons, so it
> may have a life elsewhere.
>
> +1
>
> Regards,
>
> Juanco