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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by prt <sh...@pelephone.co.il> on 2007/07/09 14:26:54 UTC
Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Hi to all,
I have Dell PE 2950 with tow Intel xeon dual core 5130 processors.
I use this server to run website.
I have three tomcat work in balance in mod_jk, and one Apache in front on
port 80.
The JVM and the tomcat that i have on the server are 32 bit architecture.
My question is,
Is it good to do so or will be better to install 64 bit architecture JVM and
compile tomcat
on the server ?
Thank you all for help and sorry about my English.
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com]
> Subject: RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
>
> > From: prt [mailto:shaharsa@pelephone.co.il]
> > Subject: Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
> >
> > Are you sure about that is no need to compile the Tomcat on 64 Bit ?
>
> Definitely.
One caveat: there is an optional connector (APR) that does use native
code, and it does have to be compiled for each target platform. Unless
you're worried about ultimate performance, it's not needed. The rest of
Tomcat is pure Java, including all the standard connectors.
- Chuck
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Swapnil.Kale" <sw...@gmail.com>.
Thanks a lot :) It helped a lot. All the problems are gone now.
Thanks again!
Swapnil
Peter Crowther wrote:
>
>> From: Swapnil.Kale [mailto:swapnil.kale@gmail.com]
>> Yes i did install the exe and not the zip file. which was creating a
>> problem.
>> Now i uninstalled it and using the zip file, <startup.bat> ,
>> the tomcat runs smoothly.
>
> That's a fairly common picture. Windows services are wonderful in
> theory, but they do make life awkward sometimes!
>
>> One thing i'm still wondering is the uninstall did not clear
>> the registry
>> entries under Wow6432Node where i had entered the JVM param/
>> options for Xms Xmx.
>
> My guesses: Whoever wrote the uninstaller didn't expect someone to run
> the 32-bit service installer code on a 64-bit system, so was clearing
> the entries from the 64-bit registry not the 32-bit portion of the
> registry.
>
>> So
>> 1) if i run the default startup script what is the heap size that is
>> allocated on 64 bit jvm/ OS?
>
> No size is specified, so the size will be the default size for the JVM
> you're using. Defaults are documented on Sun's web site for the Sun
> JVM.
>
>> 2) How do I specify those sizes using the script?
>
> Put in a line that sets JAVA_OPTS. For example (from one of my own
> startup scripts):
>
> set JAVA_OPTS=-Xms128m -Xmx512m
>
> - Peter
>
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Peter Crowther <Pe...@melandra.com>.
> From: Swapnil.Kale [mailto:swapnil.kale@gmail.com]
> Yes i did install the exe and not the zip file. which was creating a
> problem.
> Now i uninstalled it and using the zip file, <startup.bat> ,
> the tomcat runs smoothly.
That's a fairly common picture. Windows services are wonderful in
theory, but they do make life awkward sometimes!
> One thing i'm still wondering is the uninstall did not clear
> the registry
> entries under Wow6432Node where i had entered the JVM param/
> options for Xms Xmx.
My guesses: Whoever wrote the uninstaller didn't expect someone to run
the 32-bit service installer code on a 64-bit system, so was clearing
the entries from the 64-bit registry not the 32-bit portion of the
registry.
> So
> 1) if i run the default startup script what is the heap size that is
> allocated on 64 bit jvm/ OS?
No size is specified, so the size will be the default size for the JVM
you're using. Defaults are documented on Sun's web site for the Sun
JVM.
> 2) How do I specify those sizes using the script?
Put in a line that sets JAVA_OPTS. For example (from one of my own
startup scripts):
set JAVA_OPTS=-Xms128m -Xmx512m
- Peter
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Swapnil.Kale" <sw...@gmail.com>.
Thanks a ton Peter,
The picture is pretty clear now.
Yes i did install the exe and not the zip file. which was creating a
problem.
Now i uninstalled it and using the zip file, <startup.bat> , the tomcat runs
smoothly.
One thing i'm still wondering is the uninstall did not clear the registry
entries under Wow6432Node where i had entered the JVM param/ options for Xms
Xmx.
So
1) if i run the default startup script what is the heap size that is
allocated on 64 bit jvm/ OS?
2) How do I specify those sizes using the script?
Thanks again!
:) Swap.
Peter Crowther wrote:
>
>> From: Swapnil.Kale [mailto:swapnil.kale@gmail.com]
>> I tried installing tomcat 32 bit on a 64 bit JVM but it didnt work.
>
> That is very unexpected. *Tomcat* is pure Java. I can do a file copy
> of my entire Tomcat installation and my apps from my 32-bit development
> box to my 64-bit staging box (and back again) and Tomcat starts and runs
> without error. Note that I'm using the zip download and starting it
> from the batch file; I do *not* install a Windows service, and I do
> *not* use any native libraries.
>
>> 1) Can i host 32 bit compiled war file on 64 bit Tomcat / JVM ? <If my
>> tomcat installation succeeds>
>
> Yes. I do this regularly. The bytecodes emitted by the compiler are
> identical whether the compiler runs on a virtual machine on a 32-bit,
> 64-bit, 36-bit or any other physical hardware.
>
>> 2) What if i recompile the war on 64 bit jvm and host it on
>> 64 bit Tomcat?
>
> Yes. I do this more rarely (my dev box is my usual compile
> environment), but it works. I repeat: the bytecodes emitted by the
> compiler are identical whether the compiler runs on a virtual machine on
> a 32-bit, 64-bit, 36-bit or any other physical hardware.
>
>> I've read that the size of the primitive datatypes in 64 bit
>> is different,
> Whoever wrote that is wrong. Java is not C. Java primitive sizes are
> standard, regardless of the physical machine.
>
>> so if i use Java web start and launch the application from
>> remote machine
>> <32 bit> using JNLP, will it work on that 32 bit machine?
>> having 64 bit machine compiled jars?
>
> Yes.
>
>> If I host the 32 bit compiled war on 64 bit Tomcat / 64 bit JVM,
>> What am i gonna miss/gain? except the lot of heap memory
>
> Nothing.
>
>> The picture is still not clear, Can you throw some light on this?
>
> The correct Java virtual machine must be installed for the operating
> system and hardware.
>
> Java bytecode in .class, .jar and .war files is portable. Tomcat is
> portable.
>
> Native code is not portable. The code for installing Tomcat as a
> Windows service is not portable.
>
> If you have installed Tomcat from something other than the zip file (or
> the .tar.gz file) on the Apache Tomcat site, you may have some native
> code that you were not expecting. Install from the zip file, start
> Tomcat via startup.bat and see whether the problem is still there.
>
> - Peter
>
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Peter Crowther <Pe...@melandra.com>.
> From: Swapnil.Kale [mailto:swapnil.kale@gmail.com]
> I tried installing tomcat 32 bit on a 64 bit JVM but it didnt work.
That is very unexpected. *Tomcat* is pure Java. I can do a file copy
of my entire Tomcat installation and my apps from my 32-bit development
box to my 64-bit staging box (and back again) and Tomcat starts and runs
without error. Note that I'm using the zip download and starting it
from the batch file; I do *not* install a Windows service, and I do
*not* use any native libraries.
> 1) Can i host 32 bit compiled war file on 64 bit Tomcat / JVM ? <If my
> tomcat installation succeeds>
Yes. I do this regularly. The bytecodes emitted by the compiler are
identical whether the compiler runs on a virtual machine on a 32-bit,
64-bit, 36-bit or any other physical hardware.
> 2) What if i recompile the war on 64 bit jvm and host it on
> 64 bit Tomcat?
Yes. I do this more rarely (my dev box is my usual compile
environment), but it works. I repeat: the bytecodes emitted by the
compiler are identical whether the compiler runs on a virtual machine on
a 32-bit, 64-bit, 36-bit or any other physical hardware.
> I've read that the size of the primitive datatypes in 64 bit
> is different,
Whoever wrote that is wrong. Java is not C. Java primitive sizes are
standard, regardless of the physical machine.
> so if i use Java web start and launch the application from
> remote machine
> <32 bit> using JNLP, will it work on that 32 bit machine?
> having 64 bit machine compiled jars?
Yes.
> If I host the 32 bit compiled war on 64 bit Tomcat / 64 bit JVM,
> What am i gonna miss/gain? except the lot of heap memory
Nothing.
> The picture is still not clear, Can you throw some light on this?
The correct Java virtual machine must be installed for the operating
system and hardware.
Java bytecode in .class, .jar and .war files is portable. Tomcat is
portable.
Native code is not portable. The code for installing Tomcat as a
Windows service is not portable.
If you have installed Tomcat from something other than the zip file (or
the .tar.gz file) on the Apache Tomcat site, you may have some native
code that you were not expecting. Install from the zip file, start
Tomcat via startup.bat and see whether the problem is still there.
- Peter
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Swapnil,
Swapnil.Kale wrote:
> I tried installing tomcat 32 bit on a 64 bit JVM but it didnt work.
What OS? Sounds like Windows.
It's possible that you lack the 32-bit support libraries required by the
32-bit JVM. Is there a 32-bit support package that needs to be installed?
> I tried following on the mini how to install tomcat on 64 bit OS but didnt
> succeed.
Get the JVM working, first.
> What i found on internet is we need 64 bit executable for tomcat to run to
> 64 bit jvm and 64 bit OS <offcourse>
If you are using tcnative, yes, you will need to match your
architecture. Tomcat itself is 100% Java, so if the JVM runs, Tomcat
will run. Other connectors and stuff may need tweaking, such as
tcnative, APR module, isapi redirector, or tomcat.exe -- the MS Windows
service binary. All of these are optional.
> Few Questions :
> 1) Can i host 32 bit compiled war file on 64 bit Tomcat / JVM ? <If my
> tomcat installation succeeds>
Absolutely. Your WAR is not architecture-specific. Remember "write once,
run anywhere?" This is what that means.
> 2) What if i recompile the war on 64 bit jvm and host it on 64 bit Tomcat?
Again, the WAR is architecture-neutral, as is Tomcat. Only the OS and
JVM have 32-bit and 64-bit versions.
> I've read that the size of the primitive datatypes in 64 bit is different,
You have read incorrectly. Java's primitive types are defined to have
specific sizes, regardless of the architecture of the machine on which
it is running. The JVM may choose to use differently-sized data under
the covers, but your Java code will be unaware of any such issues.
Hope that clears a few things up,
- -chris
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Swapnil.Kale" <sw...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I'm not sure about my thoughts here.
Please correct if my understanding is wrong.
I tried installing tomcat 32 bit on a 64 bit JVM but it didnt work.
I tried following on the mini how to install tomcat on 64 bit OS but didnt
succeed.
What i found on internet is we need 64 bit executable for tomcat to run to
64 bit jvm and 64 bit OS <offcourse>
Few Questions :
1) Can i host 32 bit compiled war file on 64 bit Tomcat / JVM ? <If my
tomcat installation succeeds>
2) What if i recompile the war on 64 bit jvm and host it on 64 bit Tomcat?
I've read that the size of the primitive datatypes in 64 bit is different,
so if i use Java web start and launch the application from remote machine
<32 bit> using JNLP, will it work on that 32 bit machine? having 64 bit
machine compiled jars?
If I host the 32 bit compiled war on 64 bit Tomcat / 64 bit JVM,
What am i gonna miss/gain? except the lot of heap memory
The picture is still not clear, Can you throw some light on this?
help appreciated.
Swapnil
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
>
>> From: prt [mailto:shaharsa@pelephone.co.il]
>> Subject: Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
>>
>> Are you sure about that is no need to compile the Tomcat on 64 Bit ?
>
> Definitely.
>
>> What about the all application,
>> I can develop and compile on 32 bit and then transfer class
>> files to the server ?
>
> Correct. One of the key attributes of Java is platform independence.
>
> - Chuck
>
>
> THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
> MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: prt [mailto:shaharsa@pelephone.co.il]
> Subject: Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
>
> Are you sure about that is no need to compile the Tomcat on 64 Bit ?
Definitely.
> What about the all application,
> I can develop and compile on 32 bit and then transfer class
> files to the server ?
Correct. One of the key attributes of Java is platform independence.
- Chuck
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by prt <sh...@pelephone.co.il>.
Hi Christopher,
Sorry about the double post.
Thank you very much for your help, you very kind.
I installed JVM 64-bit Server, so now the tomcat's work with the JVM.
Are you sure about that is no need to compile the Tomcat on 64 Bit ?
What about the all application,
I can develop and compile on 32 bit and then transfer class files to the
server ?
Christopher Schultz-2 wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Prt,
>
> Please do not post more than once. We forgive spelling and grammar
> mistakes. There is no reason to re-post your question with trivial
> changes.
>
> prt wrote:
>> I have Dell PE 2950 with tow Intel xeon dual core 5130 processors.
>> I have three tomcat work in balance in mod_jk, and one Apache in front on
>> port 80.
>
> Three instances on the same piece of hardware? Why not just run a single
> instance? Load balancing doesn't get you anything when it's all on the
> same hardware.
>
>> The JVM and the tomcat that i have on the server are 32 bit architecture.
>
> :(
>
> Note that Tomcat is architecture-less. Tomcat is neither 32-bit nor
> 64-bit. Only the JVM makes these distinctions.
>
>> Is it good to do so or will be better to install 64 bit architecture JVM
>> and
>> compile tomcat on the server ?
>
> You should definitely use a 64-bit JVM on your server. You will have
> access to much more memory and overall performance should improve
> significantly. You do not have to recompile anything. Tomcat should work
> exactly as it does today.
>
>> Thank you all for help and sorry about my English.
>
> No problem. My Hebrew would probably be horrible. ;)
>
> - -chris
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RE: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Titi Wangsa [mailto:blacksnow666@gmail.com]
> Subject: Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
>
> correct me if i'm mistaken, but i've read that
> the more memory you allocate for you Heap, the
> less thread you have,
That's somewhat true with a 32-bit OS, but even then you can still get
hundreds of threads with the maximum heap (~ 1.5 - 1.8 GB). On 64-bit
systems, each process space is so large that there's no significant
interaction.
How many threads are you talking about and why do you think you need so
many?
- Chuck
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Titi,
Titi Wangsa wrote:
> we have 3 instances on the same hardware
> we did this due to a memory/thread constraint
> correct me if i'm mistaken, but i've read that
> the more memory you allocate for you Heap, the less thread you have,
> we want a lot of memory
> and a lot of threads
> so we opted to do 3 instances on the same hardware
32-bit JVMs have somewhat limited memory (somewhere around 2GB depending
on the platform). 64-bit JVMs can support a /lot/ more. You don't
necessarily have to trade-off between threads and heap.
Actually, I have no idea how to allow more threads in a JVM. I would
imagine that they are simply limited my the amount of (Java heap as well
as JVM) memory you have available and the process thread limit set in
your OS.
I suppose if the only way to support 8192 threads is to run two
4096-thread processes at once, that's what you gotta do.
- -chris
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Titi Wangsa <bl...@gmail.com>.
we have 3 instances on the same hardware
we did this due to a memory/thread constraint
correct me if i'm mistaken, but i've read that
the more memory you allocate for you Heap, the less thread you have,
we want a lot of memory
and a lot of threads
so we opted to do 3 instances on the same hardware
On 7/10/07, Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Prt,
>
> Please do not post more than once. We forgive spelling and grammar
> mistakes. There is no reason to re-post your question with trivial changes.
>
> prt wrote:
> > I have Dell PE 2950 with tow Intel xeon dual core 5130 processors.
> > I have three tomcat work in balance in mod_jk, and one Apache in front on
> > port 80.
>
> Three instances on the same piece of hardware? Why not just run a single
> instance? Load balancing doesn't get you anything when it's all on the
> same hardware.
>
> > The JVM and the tomcat that i have on the server are 32 bit architecture.
>
> :(
>
> Note that Tomcat is architecture-less. Tomcat is neither 32-bit nor
> 64-bit. Only the JVM makes these distinctions.
>
> > Is it good to do so or will be better to install 64 bit architecture JVM and
> > compile tomcat on the server ?
>
> You should definitely use a 64-bit JVM on your server. You will have
> access to much more memory and overall performance should improve
> significantly. You do not have to recompile anything. Tomcat should work
> exactly as it does today.
>
> > Thank you all for help and sorry about my English.
>
> No problem. My Hebrew would probably be horrible. ;)
>
> - -chris
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Prt,
Please do not post more than once. We forgive spelling and grammar
mistakes. There is no reason to re-post your question with trivial changes.
prt wrote:
> I have Dell PE 2950 with tow Intel xeon dual core 5130 processors.
> I have three tomcat work in balance in mod_jk, and one Apache in front on
> port 80.
Three instances on the same piece of hardware? Why not just run a single
instance? Load balancing doesn't get you anything when it's all on the
same hardware.
> The JVM and the tomcat that i have on the server are 32 bit architecture.
:(
Note that Tomcat is architecture-less. Tomcat is neither 32-bit nor
64-bit. Only the JVM makes these distinctions.
> Is it good to do so or will be better to install 64 bit architecture JVM and
> compile tomcat on the server ?
You should definitely use a 64-bit JVM on your server. You will have
access to much more memory and overall performance should improve
significantly. You do not have to recompile anything. Tomcat should work
exactly as it does today.
> Thank you all for help and sorry about my English.
No problem. My Hebrew would probably be horrible. ;)
- -chris
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Re: Advice about Tomcat on x86_64 architecture..
Posted by prt <sh...@pelephone.co.il>.
Thank you all for your help,
The second reason to use more than on tomcat is so i can stop one and the
others still work.
I compiled the mod_jk module on the server.
In catalina.sh i set JAVA_OPTS to "-server -Xms1g -Xmx1g -Xincgc"
I did test for maximum thread by run jsp with this code,
####################################
<%
try {
while(true){
new TestThread().start();
}
}
catch ( OutOfMemoryError e ) {System.out.println("Maximum threads = " +
TestThread.CREATE_COUNT);}
%>
<%!
public static class TestThread extends Thread {
private static int CREATE_COUNT = 0;
public TestThread() {
CREATE_COUNT++;
}
public void run() {
try {
sleep(Integer.MAX_VALUE);
}
catch (InterruptedException e) {;}
}
}
%>
####################################
I get Maximum threads = 32684.
prt wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
> I have Dell PE 2950 with two Intel xeon dual core 5130 processors.
> I use this server to run website.
> I have three tomcat work in balance in mod_jk, and one Apache in front on
> port 80.
>
> The JVM and the tomcat that i have on the server are 32 bit architecture.
>
> My question is,
> Is it good to do so or will be better to install 64 bit architecture JVM
> and compile tomcat
> on the server ?
>
> Thank you all for help and sorry about my English.
>
--
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