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Posted to dev@tuscany.apache.org by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> on 2006/05/02 22:53:07 UTC
Cross language interop
I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic test
is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the results.
We could develop this to test other functions such as creating, updating and
deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect the
outputs to be compatible.
Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported types
and type constructs?
Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried out
with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed accurately
and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database and
printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a database
for comparison.
We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert from one
DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an interoperability
issue.
Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so this
is something else that you could expect to be transferred across language
boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing based
on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones are
required.
Thoughts
Regards
Simon
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com>.
I note that the poster talks about attaching and example that "someone else
wrote and was slightly modified by me". I'm concerned that we don't know who
owns this example. Lets talk separately and see if we can find out from Ed
Merks where he got this from. Also based on Ed Slatterys post we may need to
construct our own to take into account the spec compliance offered by the
different implementations.
Regards
Simon
On 5/3/06, kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml" which I
> have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
> is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever needed. I'm
> not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the
> test
> suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the
> article
>
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
> as attachments
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
> and
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
>
> With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use case
> for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to the
> "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of cross
> language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we would
> be
> supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS implementations,
> all
> accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
>
> I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do, but
> perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the IRC
> channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th, at:
> 15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
>
> Cheers, kelvin.
>
> On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
> > thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic
> test
> > is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> > results.
> > We could develop this to test other functions such as creating, updating
> > and
> > deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> > implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect
> the
> > outputs to be compatible.
> >
> > Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported
> > types
> > and type constructs?
> >
> > Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried out
> > with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> > accurately
> > and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database and
> > printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a
> database
> > for comparison.
> >
> > We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert from
> > one
> > DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an interoperability
> > issue.
> >
> > Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so
> this
> > is something else that you could expect to be transferred across
> language
> > boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
> >
> > Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
> > interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing
> > based
> > on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
> >
> > I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones are
> > required.
> >
> > Thoughts
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Kelvin Goodson
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com>.
So are you thinking about a specific services interface for an SDO object,
i.e. the SDO acts as a conduit between the data resource and the client
(browser)? In this scenario what happens when data is changed. Does the SDO
cache the change awaiting the request to update the data resource or does it
pass the update directly through to the data resource. There are a number of
examples of web services type implementations of access to relational and
file data. Would you propose that we adopt and exisitng interface
description or construct a service interface that wraps the SDO interface as
currently specified?
Regards
Simon
On 5/4/06, Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> With regard to the interop scenario concerning moving data graphs from
> location to location, I am a bit concerned that we are not covering the
> other option. With the coming of AJAX, some people are looking more at
> leaving the data where it is, and using the API to modify it on the
> server.
> How does this fit with SDO? Currently (certainly in the C++
> implementation), we load the data into objects in memory from the data
> storage, and can then serialize them to XML to be moved around.
> If we imagine a case where ajax is used to call get/set APIs on data
> objects, then perhaps we dont even need to load the data from the database
> until its used.
>
> I feel the need for an SDO implmentation which just wraps data access, and
> does nothing until a data object is actually requested, at which point it
> uses whatever mechanism is used by the data access service (stored procs
> etc) to load that individual data object, and send that to the client.
>
> Perhaps thats really a separate thread - what do you all think?
>
> On 03/05/06, Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >
> > kelvin goodson wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > >
> > > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
> > case
> > > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
> > the
> > > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> > > cross
> > > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
> > > would be
> > > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
> > > implementations, all
> > > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like
> a
> > > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> > > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > I have also not seen many interop scenarios requiring cooperation
> > between two different DAS implementations. The only one that comes to
> > mind is reading from one database and writing to another. This would be
> > very cool, especially if the two DAS implementations were in different
> > languages(C++, Java, PHP, Ruby), but I doubt that this scenario will be
> > common.
> >
> > I think a more frequent interop scenario will involve reading data from
> > a data source and shipping it to some remote engine for processing. The
> > modified graph would be shipped back to the originating DAS and the
> > changes reflected to the originating data source. The remote engine
> > could be implemented in another language or, if it is the same language,
> > it could be using a different implementation of SDO.
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com>.
With regard to the interop scenario concerning moving data graphs from
location to location, I am a bit concerned that we are not covering the
other option. With the coming of AJAX, some people are looking more at
leaving the data where it is, and using the API to modify it on the server.
How does this fit with SDO? Currently (certainly in the C++
implementation), we load the data into objects in memory from the data
storage, and can then serialize them to XML to be moved around.
If we imagine a case where ajax is used to call get/set APIs on data
objects, then perhaps we dont even need to load the data from the database
until its used.
I feel the need for an SDO implmentation which just wraps data access, and
does nothing until a data object is actually requested, at which point it
uses whatever mechanism is used by the data access service (stored procs
etc) to load that individual data object, and send that to the client.
Perhaps thats really a separate thread - what do you all think?
On 03/05/06, Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net> wrote:
>
> kelvin goodson wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >
> > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
> case
> > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
> the
> > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> > cross
> > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
> > would be
> > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
> > implementations, all
> > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
> >
> [snip]
>
> I have also not seen many interop scenarios requiring cooperation
> between two different DAS implementations. The only one that comes to
> mind is reading from one database and writing to another. This would be
> very cool, especially if the two DAS implementations were in different
> languages(C++, Java, PHP, Ruby), but I doubt that this scenario will be
> common.
>
> I think a more frequent interop scenario will involve reading data from
> a data source and shipping it to some remote engine for processing. The
> modified graph would be shipped back to the originating DAS and the
> changes reflected to the originating data source. The remote engine
> could be implemented in another language or, if it is the same language,
> it could be using a different implementation of SDO.
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net>.
I was actually thinking that the remote engine would deserialize the
graph and make changes using the SDO APIs. The graph (and change
history) would be re-serialized and shipped back to the originating DAS.
Thanks,
--Kevin
Simon Laws wrote:
> Hi Kevin
>
> When you suggest and example of "reading data from a data source and
> shipping it to some remote engine for processing" would this include, for
> example, an application that reads a data graph from a relational
> database
> and then forwards is in the form of and XML document to, say, an XFoms
> engine. Is this the kind of thing you were talking about? Once the XML
> form
> has been completed in this case the modified XML doc would have to be
> sent
> back to the SDO in some way and, as you say, be committed to the
> database.
> How is this done in SDO? Are interfaces provided that allow an
> existing SDO
> to be updated with a new graph (the modifieed XML document) while
> maintaining the original change history?
>
> Regards Simon
>
>
> On 5/3/06, Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> kelvin goodson wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> >
>> > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
>> case
>> > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
>> the
>> > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
>> > cross
>> > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
>> > would be
>> > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
>> > implementations, all
>> > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound
>> like a
>> > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
>> > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
>> >
>> [snip]
>>
>> I have also not seen many interop scenarios requiring cooperation
>> between two different DAS implementations. The only one that comes to
>> mind is reading from one database and writing to another. This would be
>> very cool, especially if the two DAS implementations were in different
>> languages(C++, Java, PHP, Ruby), but I doubt that this scenario will be
>> common.
>>
>> I think a more frequent interop scenario will involve reading data from
>> a data source and shipping it to some remote engine for processing. The
>> modified graph would be shipped back to the originating DAS and the
>> changes reflected to the originating data source. The remote engine
>> could be implemented in another language or, if it is the same language,
>> it could be using a different implementation of SDO.
>>
>>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com>.
Hi Kevin
When you suggest and example of "reading data from a data source and
shipping it to some remote engine for processing" would this include, for
example, an application that reads a data graph from a relational database
and then forwards is in the form of and XML document to, say, an XFoms
engine. Is this the kind of thing you were talking about? Once the XML form
has been completed in this case the modified XML doc would have to be sent
back to the SDO in some way and, as you say, be committed to the database.
How is this done in SDO? Are interfaces provided that allow an existing SDO
to be updated with a new graph (the modifieed XML document) while
maintaining the original change history?
Regards Simon
On 5/3/06, Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net> wrote:
>
> kelvin goodson wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >
> > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
> case
> > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
> the
> > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> > cross
> > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
> > would be
> > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
> > implementations, all
> > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
> >
> [snip]
>
> I have also not seen many interop scenarios requiring cooperation
> between two different DAS implementations. The only one that comes to
> mind is reading from one database and writing to another. This would be
> very cool, especially if the two DAS implementations were in different
> languages(C++, Java, PHP, Ruby), but I doubt that this scenario will be
> common.
>
> I think a more frequent interop scenario will involve reading data from
> a data source and shipping it to some remote engine for processing. The
> modified graph would be shipped back to the originating DAS and the
> changes reflected to the originating data source. The remote engine
> could be implemented in another language or, if it is the same language,
> it could be using a different implementation of SDO.
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Kevin Williams <ke...@qwest.net>.
kelvin goodson wrote:
[snip]
>
> With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use case
> for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to the
> "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> cross
> language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
> would be
> supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
> implementations, all
> accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
>
[snip]
I have also not seen many interop scenarios requiring cooperation
between two different DAS implementations. The only one that comes to
mind is reading from one database and writing to another. This would be
very cool, especially if the two DAS implementations were in different
languages(C++, Java, PHP, Ruby), but I doubt that this scenario will be
common.
I think a more frequent interop scenario will involve reading data from
a data source and shipping it to some remote engine for processing. The
modified graph would be shipped back to the originating DAS and the
changes reflected to the originating data source. The remote engine
could be implemented in another language or, if it is the same language,
it could be using a different implementation of SDO.
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com>.
Ok, thanks for the feedback Frank. I'll speak to the spec team and, if they
don't have anything, I'll generate a schema based on the SDO spec mappings.
Regards
Simon
On 5/3/06, Frank Budinsky <fr...@ca.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> "Edward Slattery" <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote on 05/03/2006 07:35:03
> AM:
>
> > Can the Java SDO handle the Primer sample without moidification? The C++
> one
> > certainly cannot as it uses ecore: stuff , which I dont have.
> There are equivalent SDO annotations to the ecore one used in Primer.xsd,
> so it would need to be modified to use the SDO annotations instead of the
> ecore ones that it's currently using. If this were done, I suspect
> (although I haven't tried it) that the SDO Java impl would be able to
> support it since EMF is under the covers anyway - and we know EMF supports
> it. But, like I said in my other post, I don't think this is the most
> important interop test at this point. It focuses on too many corner cases.
>
> Frank.
>
> >
> > cheers,
> > Ed.
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com>.
Ed,
Thats a very good point. We need some form of higher level view of what the
different implementations offer in terms of spec compliance and tests to
demonstrate this compliance. Interoperability against this stated behaviour
is, as you say, the sensible objective. Have any kind of functional matices
been extracted from the specs by the project or spec team so that we can
document compliance levels for each implementation? If not we could make one
and try and get a current picture of where we are against the specs as they
stand. This would also be useful as I expect the specs will continue to
evolve and tracking progress against these changes could be difficult.
Having this resource then makes it much easier to do a propoer job of the
interoperability testing.
Regards
Simon
On 5/3/06, Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> On the subject of interop, what are we going to do about some form of
> compliance suite? We will need to define the range of interop expected,
> because I guess both Java and C++ implementations interpret things which
> are
> not covered by the spec. I am quite sure we do this in different ways.
> I think it would only be sensible to test interop within the specified
> behaviour, and highlight as we go along where the specification is open
> to
> interpretation.
>
> cheers,
> Ed.
>
>
> On 03/05/06, Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Can the Java SDO handle the Primer sample without moidification? The
> C++
> > one certainly cannot as it uses ecore: stuff , which I dont have.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Ed.
> >
> >
> > On 03/05/06, kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml"
> which
> > > I
> > > have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
> > > is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever
> > > needed. I'm
> > > not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the
> > > test
> > > suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the
> > > article
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
> > > as attachments
> > >
> > >
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
> > > and
> > >
> > >
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
> > >
> > > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
> > > case
> > > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
> > > the
> > > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> > > cross
> > > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we
> would
> > > be
> > > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS
> implementations,
> > > all
> > > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like
> a
> > > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> > > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
> > >
> > > I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do,
> > > but
> > > perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the
> IRC
> > > channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th,
> > > at:
> > > 15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
> > >
> > > Cheers, kelvin.
> > >
> > > On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some
> more
> > > > thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most
> basic
> > > test
> > > > is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> > > > results.
> > > > We could develop this to test other functions such as creating,
> > > updating
> > > > and
> > > > deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> > > > implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would
> expect
> > > the
> > > > outputs to be compatible.
> > > >
> > > > Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of
> supported
> > >
> > > > types
> > > > and type constructs?
> > > >
> > > > Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried
> > > out
> > > > with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> > > > accurately
> > > > and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database
> > > and
> > > > printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a
> > > database
> > > > for comparison.
> > > >
> > > > We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert
> > > from
> > > > one
> > > > DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an
> > > interoperability
> > > > issue.
> > > >
> > > > Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If
> so
> > > this
> > > > is something else that you could expect to be transferred across
> > > language
> > > > boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
> > > >
> > > > Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some
> SCA
> > > > interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic
> testing
> > > > based
> > > > on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones
> > > are
> > > > required.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Simon
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best Regards
> > > Kelvin Goodson
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com>.
On the subject of interop, what are we going to do about some form of
compliance suite? We will need to define the range of interop expected,
because I guess both Java and C++ implementations interpret things which are
not covered by the spec. I am quite sure we do this in different ways.
I think it would only be sensible to test interop within the specified
behaviour, and highlight as we go along where the specification is open to
interpretation.
cheers,
Ed.
On 03/05/06, Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Can the Java SDO handle the Primer sample without moidification? The C++
> one certainly cannot as it uses ecore: stuff , which I dont have.
>
> cheers,
> Ed.
>
>
> On 03/05/06, kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml" which
> > I
> > have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
> > is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever
> > needed. I'm
> > not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the
> > test
> > suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the
> > article
> >
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
> > as attachments
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
> > and
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
> >
> > With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
> > case
> > for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
> > the
> > "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
> > cross
> > language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we would
> > be
> > supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS implementations,
> > all
> > accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> > frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> > wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
> >
> > I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do,
> > but
> > perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the IRC
> > channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th,
> > at:
> > 15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
> >
> > Cheers, kelvin.
> >
> > On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
> > > thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic
> > test
> > > is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> > > results.
> > > We could develop this to test other functions such as creating,
> > updating
> > > and
> > > deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> > > implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect
> > the
> > > outputs to be compatible.
> > >
> > > Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported
> >
> > > types
> > > and type constructs?
> > >
> > > Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried
> > out
> > > with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> > > accurately
> > > and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database
> > and
> > > printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a
> > database
> > > for comparison.
> > >
> > > We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert
> > from
> > > one
> > > DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an
> > interoperability
> > > issue.
> > >
> > > Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so
> > this
> > > is something else that you could expect to be transferred across
> > language
> > > boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
> > >
> > > Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
> > > interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing
> > > based
> > > on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
> > >
> > > I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones
> > are
> > > required.
> > >
> > > Thoughts
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards
> > Kelvin Goodson
> >
> >
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Frank Budinsky <fr...@ca.ibm.com>.
"Edward Slattery" <ed...@googlemail.com> wrote on 05/03/2006 07:35:03
AM:
> Can the Java SDO handle the Primer sample without moidification? The C++
one
> certainly cannot as it uses ecore: stuff , which I dont have.
There are equivalent SDO annotations to the ecore one used in Primer.xsd,
so it would need to be modified to use the SDO annotations instead of the
ecore ones that it's currently using. If this were done, I suspect
(although I haven't tried it) that the SDO Java impl would be able to
support it since EMF is under the covers anyway - and we know EMF supports
it. But, like I said in my other post, I don't think this is the most
important interop test at this point. It focuses on too many corner cases.
Frank.
>
> cheers,
> Ed.
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Edward Slattery <ed...@googlemail.com>.
Can the Java SDO handle the Primer sample without moidification? The C++ one
certainly cannot as it uses ecore: stuff , which I dont have.
cheers,
Ed.
On 03/05/06, kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml" which I
> have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
> is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever needed. I'm
> not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the
> test
> suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the
> article
>
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
> as attachments
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
> and
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
>
> With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use case
> for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to the
> "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of cross
> language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we would
> be
> supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS implementations,
> all
> accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
>
> I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do, but
> perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the IRC
> channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th, at:
> 15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
>
> Cheers, kelvin.
>
> On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
> > thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic
> test
> > is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> > results.
> > We could develop this to test other functions such as creating, updating
> > and
> > deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> > implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect
> the
> > outputs to be compatible.
> >
> > Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported
> > types
> > and type constructs?
> >
> > Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried out
> > with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> > accurately
> > and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database and
> > printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a
> database
> > for comparison.
> >
> > We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert from
> > one
> > DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an interoperability
> > issue.
> >
> > Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so
> this
> > is something else that you could expect to be transferred across
> language
> > boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
> >
> > Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
> > interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing
> > based
> > on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
> >
> > I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones are
> > required.
> >
> > Thoughts
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Kelvin Goodson
>
>
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by Frank Budinsky <fr...@ca.ibm.com>.
"kelvin goodson" <ke...@gmail.com> wrote on 05/03/2006 05:16:24
AM:
> There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml" which
I
> have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
> is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever needed. I'm
I think Primer.xsd is certainly a comprehensive Schema support test, but
for that reason, I think it may be overly aggressive to expect all of our
SDO impls (especially the ones that aren't leveraging EMFs full schema
support, under the covers) will be able to handle it. We could try, just
to see, but I think it would be better to try to put together a simpler
example that just handles all the standard SDO (as opposed to XML schema)
types. I don't know of any such example exists - could ask the spec team
just in case - but I think someone will need to put one together.
> not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the
test
> suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the
article
>
>
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
> as attachments
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.
> tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
> and
> http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.
> tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
>
> With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use
case
> for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to
the
> "same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of
cross
> language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we would
be
> supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS implementations,
all
> accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
> frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
> wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
I agree that ChangeSummary is not high on the priority list. Note that
there are also two practical problems as well. 1) SDO Java hasn't
implemented the "standard" serialization format for ChangeSummary yet ...
and won't have it implemented until late in the year and 2) the SDO spec
is a little ambiguous in this area and there are still spec discussions
going on, on the topic.
Frank
>
> I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do,
but
> perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the IRC
> channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th,
at:
> 15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
>
> Cheers, kelvin.
>
> On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
> > thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic
test
> > is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> > results.
> > We could develop this to test other functions such as creating,
updating
> > and
> > deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> > implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect
the
> > outputs to be compatible.
> >
> > Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported
> > types
> > and type constructs?
> >
> > Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried
out
> > with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> > accurately
> > and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database
and
> > printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a
database
> > for comparison.
> >
> > We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert
from
> > one
> > DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an
interoperability
> > issue.
> >
> > Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so
this
> > is something else that you could expect to be transferred across
language
> > boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
> >
> > Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
> > interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing
> > based
> > on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
> >
> > I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones
are
> > required.
> >
> > Thoughts
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Kelvin Goodson
Re: Cross language interop
Posted by kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com>.
There's a pair of files called "Primer.xsd" and "PrimerSample.xml" which I
have used in the past which come from Eclipse EMF and
is as comprehensive in its coverage of schema as I have ever needed. I'm
not sure how we stand on being able to distribute these as part of the test
suite in Tuscany. A quick google shows the files available from the article
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=3666&group=eclipse.tools.emf
as attachments
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=2
and
http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/attachment.php?group=eclipse.tools.emf&id=3666&attachment=3
With regards to sharing change histories, I imagine the primary use case
for change histories is when you give a give a modified graph back to the
"same" DAS for writing back to the original source. So I in terms of cross
language interoperability I would extrapolate that the scenario we would be
supporting would be that of fairly tightly coupled DAS implementations, all
accessing the same source. I may be wrong, but It doesn't sound like a
frequently encountered scenario, so whilst it sounds like goodness, it
wouldn't be at the top of my priority list.
I don't have a strong feeling yet for the shape of tests we should do, but
perhaps we could talk about which interop tests we want to do on the IRC
channel in the next regular slot (I'm assuming that's Monday May 8th, at:
15:30 GMT, 16:30 BST, 08:30am PST, 11:30am EDT, 21:00 Bangalore)
Cheers, kelvin.
On 5/2/06, Simon Laws <si...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> I spent a little time getting familiar with PHP/SDO and had some more
> thoughts about cross language interop testing. For SDO the most basic test
> is to read and write an XML file from PHP/JAVA/C++ and compare the
> results.
> We could develop this to test other functions such as creating, updating
> and
> deleting content and again comparing the content from the different
> implementations. Assuming we start with the same input we would expect the
> outputs to be compatible.
>
> Is there an XML file somewhere that contains the full set of supported
> types
> and type constructs?
>
> Where relational DASs are implemented Similar tests could be carried out
> with relational data ensuring that type conversions are performed
> accurately
> and consistently across implementations by reading out of a database and
> printing out the data for comparison or by inserting back into a database
> for comparison.
>
> We could also look at how consistently the implementations convert from
> one
> DAS type to another but I guess this is not strictly an interoperability
> issue.
>
> Is there an intention that SDO change histories will be shared? If so this
> is something else that you could expect to be transferred across language
> boundaries and hence we should think about how to test this.
>
> Once the work is done to have C++ support Axis2 we should do some SCA
> interop testing also. In the near term we could do some basic testing
> based
> on SDO/axiom conversions if it's thought that to be worth it.
>
> I'm happy to spend time setting up tests if we can agree which ones are
> required.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Regards
>
> Simon
>
>
--
Best Regards
Kelvin Goodson