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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> on 2010/02/09 09:19:15 UTC
[proposal]
How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their
projects to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero
overhead on our the admins part. However, it requires a duplication of
effort for the mentors and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
What I would like to do is make the information we collect at this stage
of GSoC useful for our ongoing mentoring work that we intend to kick off
after GSoC.
I therefore propose that we ask projects to record tasks in their issue
tracker with a label of "Mentored". We can then pull this information
into the community.a.o site via the JIRA search widgets (I think, I need
to verify this - if not we can always point at a filter on JIRA).
Unfortunately GSoC is only about code so some projects that we can
provide mentors for are not suitable for GSoC (i.e. documentation)
therefore I also propose to use the label "GSoC" for mentored projects
available to GSoC students.
After GSoC this list of projects with mentors available will still be
useful to both the ComDev project and the development project.
Some projects already use labels to indicate tasks suitable for
newcomers, i would rather than adopt multiple labels that will require
us to aggregate various searches.
We've mentioned this before and were in initial agreement. I'm therefore
going to go with lazy consensus on this to allow us to get on with
preparing for GSoC. I'll conduct the necessary experiments whilst I wait
for objections.
Ross
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 10/02/2010 15:58, Mark Hindess wrote:
>
> In message<4B...@apache.org>, Ross Gardler writes:
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>> For clarity, lets stick with "mentor" and "GSoC" since Harmony has
>> already started doing this.
>
> Ok. Thanks.
>
>> (note there is still time for objections if people think I'm driing
>> too hard in the wrong direction).
>
> Agreed. I'm happy to pull the data from Harmony JIRA and make it
> available on a wiki if necessary.
>
> Having had a conversation about potential projects with a couple of
> Harmony developers, we've decided to use JIRA assignee to record the
> committer that will mentor the project. For Harmony, if there is no
> assignee then there is no confirmed mentor.
>
> Our intention would be to drop the gsoc label if no mentor is found for
> the proposed project within the next few weeks. Ross, is this okay with
> you or would you rather we used a "gsoc_mentor_required" label, until
> there was a confirmed mentor, in order to keep the project out of "your"
> filter.
I think it is fine for you to have an assignee as a mentor. There is no
need for you to go through it at a later stage to remove labels. I can
provide two searches. One for "mentor available" (i.e. assignee is
filled in) and one for "mentoring possible".
I would imagine that if you get a brilliant student offering to do
something they may be able to talk someone in the community into
mentoring. Lets keep the door open as long as possible.
> Historically and no doubt again this year, there will be cases were a
> non-committer will be primary mentor with a committer as co-mentor.
> In this case, the committer will be the assignee and the co-mentor
> arrangement will be documented in the comments/description.
Yes, as with previous years. The committer will have responsibility for
all liaison with the admin team. What you do internally on the project
is up to you.
> I wonder how other project will use the JIRA fields/labels and if it
> makes sense to try to be consistent across projects.
It's my intention that the projects will be consistent. Rather than
trying to get consensus across all projects I'd rather hammer something
out with those here and then tell them how it is going to work. That's
why, from my point of view, it is important to do something that does
not change their normal JIRA workflow. All I care about is getting the
data from them, the projects themselves can decide how to manage them.
Ross
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
>
>
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Mark Hindess <ma...@googlemail.com>.
In message <4B...@apache.org>, Ross Gardler writes:
>
> [SNIP]
>
> For clarity, lets stick with "mentor" and "GSoC" since Harmony has
> already started doing this.
Ok. Thanks.
> (note there is still time for objections if people think I'm driing
> too hard in the wrong direction).
Agreed. I'm happy to pull the data from Harmony JIRA and make it
available on a wiki if necessary.
Having had a conversation about potential projects with a couple of
Harmony developers, we've decided to use JIRA assignee to record the
committer that will mentor the project. For Harmony, if there is no
assignee then there is no confirmed mentor.
Our intention would be to drop the gsoc label if no mentor is found for
the proposed project within the next few weeks. Ross, is this okay with
you or would you rather we used a "gsoc_mentor_required" label, until
there was a confirmed mentor, in order to keep the project out of "your"
filter.
Historically and no doubt again this year, there will be cases were a
non-committer will be primary mentor with a committer as co-mentor.
In this case, the committer will be the assignee and the co-mentor
arrangement will be documented in the comments/description.
I wonder how other project will use the JIRA fields/labels and if it
makes sense to try to be consistent across projects.
Regards,
Mark.
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 10/02/2010 11:09, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 10/02/2010 10:23, Mark Hindess wrote:
>>
>> In message<4B...@apache.org>, Ross Gardler writes:
>>>
>>> Apologies for the empty subject (now fixed).
>>>
>>> I've created some test issues in Wookie and Comdev projects:
>>>
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId
>>>
>>> =12314021
>>
>> Just to clarify, your note below suggests using the label 'Mentored' but
>> the issues in the above view use 'mentor'. I assume we should use the
>> latter?
>
> Slackness on my part. We'd use whatever is better. I think mentor is
> marginally better, but no real preference.
For clarity, lets stick with "mentor" and "GSoC" since Harmony has
already started doing this.
(note there is still time for objections if people think I'm driing too
hard in the wrong direction).
Ross
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 10/02/2010 10:23, Mark Hindess wrote:
>
> In message<4B...@apache.org>, Ross Gardler writes:
>>
>> Apologies for the empty subject (now fixed).
>>
>> I've created some test issues in Wookie and Comdev projects:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId
>> =12314021
>
> Just to clarify, your note below suggests using the label 'Mentored' but
> the issues in the above view use 'mentor'. I assume we should use the
> latter?
Slackness on my part. We'd use whatever is better. I think mentor is
marginally better, but no real preference.
> I'm starting to add JIRA for suggested Apache Harmony tasks and have
> asked others on the project to do the same.
Excellent, thank you.
Ross
>
> Regards,
> Mark.
>
>> On 09/02/2010 08:19, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>> How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
>>>
>>> In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their
>>> projects to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero
>>> overhead on our the admins part. However, it requires a duplication of
>>> effort for the mentors and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
>>>
>>> What I would like to do is make the information we collect at this stage
>>> of GSoC useful for our ongoing mentoring work that we intend to kick off
>>> after GSoC.
>>>
>>> I therefore propose that we ask projects to record tasks in their issue
>>> tracker with a label of "Mentored". We can then pull this information
>>> into the community.a.o site via the JIRA search widgets (I think, I need
>>> to verify this - if not we can always point at a filter on JIRA).
>>>
>>> Unfortunately GSoC is only about code so some projects that we can
>>> provide mentors for are not suitable for GSoC (i.e. documentation)
>>> therefore I also propose to use the label "GSoC" for mentored projects
>>> available to GSoC students.
>>>
>>> After GSoC this list of projects with mentors available will still be
>>> useful to both the ComDev project and the development project.
>>>
>>> Some projects already use labels to indicate tasks suitable for
>>> newcomers, i would rather than adopt multiple labels that will require
>>> us to aggregate various searches.
>>>
>>> We've mentioned this before and were in initial agreement. I'm therefore
>>> going to go with lazy consensus on this to allow us to get on with
>>> preparing for GSoC. I'll conduct the necessary experiments whilst I wait
>>> for objections.
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Mark Hindess <ma...@googlemail.com>.
In message <4B...@apache.org>, Ross Gardler writes:
>
> Apologies for the empty subject (now fixed).
>
> I've created some test issues in Wookie and Comdev projects:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId
> =12314021
Just to clarify, your note below suggests using the label 'Mentored' but
the issues in the above view use 'mentor'. I assume we should use the
latter?
I like the idea of using JIRA. Proposals on a wiki have a limited
lifespan but a JIRA proposal can have a useful life beyond the initial
acceptance stage of GSoC.
I'm starting to add JIRA for suggested Apache Harmony tasks and have
asked others on the project to do the same.
Regards,
Mark.
> On 09/02/2010 08:19, Ross Gardler wrote:
> > How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
> >
> > In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their
> > projects to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero
> > overhead on our the admins part. However, it requires a duplication of
> > effort for the mentors and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
> >
> > What I would like to do is make the information we collect at this stage
> > of GSoC useful for our ongoing mentoring work that we intend to kick off
> > after GSoC.
> >
> > I therefore propose that we ask projects to record tasks in their issue
> > tracker with a label of "Mentored". We can then pull this information
> > into the community.a.o site via the JIRA search widgets (I think, I need
> > to verify this - if not we can always point at a filter on JIRA).
> >
> > Unfortunately GSoC is only about code so some projects that we can
> > provide mentors for are not suitable for GSoC (i.e. documentation)
> > therefore I also propose to use the label "GSoC" for mentored projects
> > available to GSoC students.
> >
> > After GSoC this list of projects with mentors available will still be
> > useful to both the ComDev project and the development project.
> >
> > Some projects already use labels to indicate tasks suitable for
> > newcomers, i would rather than adopt multiple labels that will require
> > us to aggregate various searches.
> >
> > We've mentioned this before and were in initial agreement. I'm therefore
> > going to go with lazy consensus on this to allow us to get on with
> > preparing for GSoC. I'll conduct the necessary experiments whilst I wait
> > for objections.
> >
> > Ross
> >
>
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...I've created some test issues in Wookie and Comdev projects:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=12314021
Cool, this answers my request for a single page list in the other
thread (should have read this thread first ;-)
-Bertrand
Re: [proposal] Use JIRA for proposing mentored projects
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Apologies for the empty subject (now fixed).
I've created some test issues in Wookie and Comdev projects:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=12314021
On 09/02/2010 08:19, Ross Gardler wrote:
> How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
>
> In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their
> projects to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero
> overhead on our the admins part. However, it requires a duplication of
> effort for the mentors and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
>
> What I would like to do is make the information we collect at this stage
> of GSoC useful for our ongoing mentoring work that we intend to kick off
> after GSoC.
>
> I therefore propose that we ask projects to record tasks in their issue
> tracker with a label of "Mentored". We can then pull this information
> into the community.a.o site via the JIRA search widgets (I think, I need
> to verify this - if not we can always point at a filter on JIRA).
>
> Unfortunately GSoC is only about code so some projects that we can
> provide mentors for are not suitable for GSoC (i.e. documentation)
> therefore I also propose to use the label "GSoC" for mentored projects
> available to GSoC students.
>
> After GSoC this list of projects with mentors available will still be
> useful to both the ComDev project and the development project.
>
> Some projects already use labels to indicate tasks suitable for
> newcomers, i would rather than adopt multiple labels that will require
> us to aggregate various searches.
>
> We've mentioned this before and were in initial agreement. I'm therefore
> going to go with lazy consensus on this to allow us to get on with
> preparing for GSoC. I'll conduct the necessary experiments whilst I wait
> for objections.
>
> Ross
>
Re: [proposal]
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
>
> In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their projects
> to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero overhead on our the
> admins part. However, it requires a duplication of effort for the mentors
> and is not useful beyond the GSoC period....
Still, I think that's good enough to expose at least drafts of the
projects, allowing potential candidates to get in touch with projects
that they might be interested in.
> I therefore propose that we ask projects to record tasks in their issue
> tracker with a label of "Mentored". We can then pull this information into
> the community.a.o site via the JIRA search widgets (I think, I need to
> verify this - if not we can always point at a filter on JIRA).
I think it's important to have a single-page list of ASF projects, but
if we can build that automatically from JIRA data that would be fine.
So no objections here, but a central list of ASF projects (GSoC or
not) is good to have, IMO.
-Bertrand
Re: [proposal]
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
On 09/02/2010 16:43, Luciano Resende wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Ross Gardler<rg...@apache.org> wrote:
>> How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
>>
>> In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their projects
>> to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero overhead on our the
>> admins part. However, it requires a duplication of effort for the mentors
>> and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
>>
>
> Wiki page is simple and flexible, and the project template could have
> a flag which says GSoC, ASF, etc
> I'm not opposing to use JIRA, but I would like to understand why Wiki
> would not be useful beyond the GSoC period.... is it mainly because of
> the workflow ?
JIRA is already in use by most of the projects here so there is minimal
effort for a project to indicate that an issue is appropriate for a mentee.
If we get people into the habit of marking things up for mentees now
then that data will be available for future issues too. The wiki does
not get updated from one year to the next, so there are no new ideas and
no way of tracking those that have been completed.
Furthermore, we can expose data from JIRA to third parties much more
easily. Exposing data from the wiki is completely unstructured and
therefore difficult for third parties to work with. For example I am
working on a project in the EU that will trial mentoring in open source
projects as part of formal education. If we can easily expose our
student project data to them then we will get tutors to look after the
students in return for the project specific mentoring. That is, there
will be less cleaning up work expected of admins and mentees.
So there is less work in reaching mentees, less work on managing those
mentees, and less work for mentors in recording their projects of interest.
The less we expect mentors to do the more mentors we will get. The
easier we make it for mentees the more mentees we will get.
There is also a workflow advantage since projects use JIRA for issue
tracking we automatically get tracking against student work. I took a
look at Kathey's mentees issue in our JIRA today and immediately
discovered that he is progressing well since some of the issues have now
been closed. SO it's less work for the admin too.
> Would it help if we happen to have a instance GSoC APP
> for our mentoring project ?
That serves a difference purpose, it handles student application and
administration, it does not handle project definitions. We would still
need a wiki or JIRA page. Longer term an instance of the Melange would
probably be helpful but I'm focussing on GSoC now and how we might move
on to our planned mentor programme immediately afterwards.
Ross
Re: [proposal]
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:19 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org> wrote:
> How are we to collect mentor projects for GSoC?
>
> In the past we have used a wiki page and had the mentors add their projects
> to that page. This has worked well and is close to zero overhead on our the
> admins part. However, it requires a duplication of effort for the mentors
> and is not useful beyond the GSoC period.
>
Wiki page is simple and flexible, and the project template could have
a flag which says GSoC, ASF, etc
I'm not opposing to use JIRA, but I would like to understand why Wiki
would not be useful beyond the GSoC period.... is it mainly because of
the workflow ? Would it help if we happen to have a instance GSoC APP
for our mentoring project ?
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://lresende.blogspot.com/