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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com> on 2004/01/17 04:50:09 UTC
[RFC] xhtml-css skin
Hi all,
I mentioned a while ago that I had fixed most of the outstanding issues
with the "whs"/"xhtml-css" skin, but there wasn't much response.
If people could take a look, perhaps even trying it on their projects,
I'd really like the feedback. Any browser bugs, missing features, or
other things of that nature.
Demo:
http://www.exclupen.com/misc/forrest/xhtml-css/index.html
Download:
http://www.exclupen.com/misc/forrest/xhtml-css-0.5.zip
Thanks!
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Marshall Roch wrote:
>>One thing I noticed is that Forrest site's
>>skinconf has a period after "Apache Software Foundation". I added a
>>period in the skin, so now there are two. It should be removed from
>>skinconf.
>
>
> It has been in the skinconf.xml since the beginning, so if we
> change it now then everyone's project will get double-dots.
> Perhaps the skinconf.xml for your test Forrest site is wrong.
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/xml-forrest/src/documentation/skinconf.xml?annotate=1.14#97
(line 97)
I would say that the period in skinconf.xml is counter-intuitive. The
period is part of the copyright statement, not the vendor name itself,
so it should be in the skin.
I know this is a BC-break, but if people are going to change skins, they
can probably change this too. Also, pre-1.0 is the best time to fix this.
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Marshall Roch wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > The copyright statement at the bottom is different,
> > missing the "All rights reserved." bit.
>
> Fixed on next upload. One thing I noticed is that Forrest site's
> skinconf has a period after "Apache Software Foundation". I added a
> period in the skin, so now there are two. It should be removed from
> skinconf.
It has been in the skinconf.xml since the beginning, so if we
change it now then everyone's project will get double-dots.
Perhaps the skinconf.xml for your test Forrest site is wrong.
--David
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> The copyright statement at the bottom is different,
> missing the "All rights reserved." bit.
Fixed on next upload. One thing I noticed is that Forrest site's
skinconf has a period after "Apache Software Foundation". I added a
period in the skin, so now there are two. It should be removed from
skinconf.
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
The copyright statement at the bottom is different,
missing the "All rights reserved." bit.
--David
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 18 Jan 2004, at 17:09, Marshall Roch wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> Just one thing: the search tab was attached to the top bar to
>> indicate that the search was global to the site. Attaching it to the
>> bottom might yield the impression that the search is done only on the
>> tab that is currently selected.
>
> The /only/ reason that I put it on the bottom is because that made it
> the same as the other tabs. I'll be happy to move it back to the top,
> but that's 2 more images that need to be downloaded. Is it worth it?
Given than those images are probably a few hundred bytes and are never
going to change (so they can be cached almost forever) I think so.
> Thanks for the Mac checks. That it is working in Safari is good to
> hear.
You are welcome.
--
Stefano.
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Just one thing: the search tab was attached to the top bar to indicate
> that the search was global to the site. Attaching it to the bottom might
> yield the impression that the search is done only on the tab that is
> currently selected.
The /only/ reason that I put it on the bottom is because that made it
the same as the other tabs. I'll be happy to move it back to the top,
but that's 2 more images that need to be downloaded. Is it worth it?
Thanks for the Mac checks. That it is working in Safari is good to hear.
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 17 Jan 2004, at 08:50, David Crossley wrote:
> Marshall Roch wrote:
>> Ross Gardler wrote:
> <snip/>
>>>
>>> - Default font looks horid on my machine (netscape on gnome) -
>>> personally I much prefer the current default
>>
>> Someone else reported the same problem with Mandrake. I think it's
>> going to be an issue with all Linux users (unless you specifically
>> "deuglify" your fonts (see tldp.org). I've taken your suggestion and
>> gone back to a sans-serif.
>
> Whatever font you are using now looks fine for me in Mozilla
> and Galeon on Linux.
>
>>> - too much white space between text items (of all types)
>>
>> Not absolutely sure what you mean here, but I've decreased the
>> line-height, which should make the lines of body text closer together.
>
> I see the same issue. Comparing it with current Forrest website the
> left-hand panel is now narrower. Great, that gives more screen space
> for the main content. So one would expect to fit more on the screen
> and not need to vertical scroll as much. However, less content now
> fits on the screen.
>
>
> There is another obscure issue. When the front page is first
> displayed (Mozilla and Galeon on Linux) then the search box
> is positioned too far towards the top of the page, sitting
> across the border of the light-blue and the medium-blue.
> After "Reload" it is then positioned correctly.
>
> Great work Marshall. This will make a lot of people happy.
Yep, great job. No issues on both Safari and Firebird on macosx.
Just one thing: the search tab was attached to the top bar to indicate
that the search was global to the site. Attaching it to the bottom
might yield the impression that the search is done only on the tab that
is currently selected.
I'm obviously biased since I did the original design of this skin, but
I think the search should be connected to the top bar.
Just my 2 cents.
--
Stefano.
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Marshall Roch wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
<snip/>
> >
> > - Default font looks horid on my machine (netscape on gnome) -
> > personally I much prefer the current default
>
> Someone else reported the same problem with Mandrake. I think it's
> going to be an issue with all Linux users (unless you specifically
> "deuglify" your fonts (see tldp.org). I've taken your suggestion and
> gone back to a sans-serif.
Whatever font you are using now looks fine for me in Mozilla
and Galeon on Linux.
> > - too much white space between text items (of all types)
>
> Not absolutely sure what you mean here, but I've decreased the
> line-height, which should make the lines of body text closer together.
I see the same issue. Comparing it with current Forrest website the
left-hand panel is now narrower. Great, that gives more screen space
for the main content. So one would expect to fit more on the screen
and not need to vertical scroll as much. However, less content now
fits on the screen.
There is another obscure issue. When the front page is first
displayed (Mozilla and Galeon on Linux) then the search box
is positioned too far towards the top of the page, sitting
across the border of the light-blue and the medium-blue.
After "Reload" it is then positioned correctly.
Great work Marshall. This will make a lot of people happy.
--David
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> No time to look on my own stuff right now but I took a look at the demo
> for the first time - GREAT!!
Glad you like it. :)
> Some personal comments (and I appreciate most of these can be changed in
> CSS):
>
> - Default font looks horid on my machine (netscape on gnome) -
> personally I much prefer the current default
Someone else reported the same problem with Mandrake. I think it's
going to be an issue with all Linux users (unless you specifically
"deuglify" your fonts (see tldp.org). I've taken your suggestion and
gone back to a sans-serif.
> - too much white space between text items (of all types)
Not absolutely sure what you mean here, but I've decreased the
line-height, which should make the lines of body text closer together.
> - how would you recomend two layer tabs should be displayed?
To be honest, I didn't really follow that thread. Are there any
examples so I can see how others are handling it? I will try to go back
and read what I can.
> - tabs give no visual feedback when you mouseover them like other links do
I added a subtle color change, but perhaps it is too subtle? White is
too bright and orange clashes... any other color ideas? Making it bold
makes the tabs move over a bit, which I think looks bad.
> - some external links are missing the external link graphic (not sure if
> this happens in current skin) - see "powerful" section for examples,
> e.g. Apache Batik is missing graphic, but Cocoon Sitemap has it
It looks like it's this if-statement in common/document2html.xsl:
<xsl:when test="not($disable-external-link-image='true') and
contains(@href, ':') and not(contains(@href, $config/group-url)) and
not(contains(@href, $config/project-url))">
Note that all of the links that are missing the graphic are at
http://xml.apache.org. Perhaps we should reconsider the part about
group-url.
> - not 4.01 compliant (Line 2, column 15: there is no attribute "XML
>
> <html xml:lang="en" lang="en">)
Fixed. I haven't tried it with the XHTML transformer yet, but any XHTML
validation problems can be easily fixed if/when Forrest converts to
XHTML output.
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Marshall Roch wrote:
> If people could take a look, perhaps even trying it on their projects,
> I'd really like the feedback. Any browser bugs, missing features, or
> other things of that nature.
>
> Demo:
> http://www.exclupen.com/misc/forrest/xhtml-css/index.html
No time to look on my own stuff right now but I took a look at the demo
for the first time - GREAT!!
Some personal comments (and I appreciate most of these can be changed in
CSS):
- Default font looks horid on my machine (netscape on gnome) -
personally I much prefer the current default
- too much white space between text items (of all types)
- how would you recomend two layer tabs should be displayed?
- tabs give no visual feedback when you mouseover them like other links do
- some external links are missing the external link graphic (not sure if
this happens in current skin) - see "powerful" section for examples,
e.g. Apache Batik is missing graphic, but Cocoon Sitemap has it
- not 4.01 compliant (Line 2, column 15: there is no attribute "XML
<html xml:lang="en" lang="en">)
Ross
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Sten Aksel Heien <sa...@objectnet.no>.
Hi Marshall
Great job, now we only need to start outputting real XHTML documents :-)
BUG:
* In Opera 7.21 the Search box is located in the bottom of the page on
top of the "Last Published"-text.
FEATURE-REQUEST:
To be more similar to the older skins (the "skin contract" ?) and keep
in sync with comment in top of the site2xhtml.xsl file, you should maybe
keep the merged XML form to have div like:
<site>
<div class="menu">
...
</div>
<div class="tab">
...
</div>
<div class="content">
...
</div>
</site>
and add id attibute (and maybe remove the class attribute).
One more thing:
One nice feature used in many web sites is to center the whole body
content ("margins"). One easy way is to use a "wrapper" (aka: design
pattern "decorator") like this:
<body>
<div id="bodyContentWrapper">
<xsl:call-template name="topStrip" />
<xsl:call-template name="centerStrip"/>
<xsl:call-template name="bottomStrip"/>
</div>
</body>
- Sten Aksel
Marshall Roch wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I mentioned a while ago that I had fixed most of the outstanding
> issues with the "whs"/"xhtml-css" skin, but there wasn't much response.
>
> If people could take a look, perhaps even trying it on their projects,
> I'd really like the feedback. Any browser bugs, missing features, or
> other things of that nature.
>
> Demo:
> http://www.exclupen.com/misc/forrest/xhtml-css/index.html
>
> Download:
> http://www.exclupen.com/misc/forrest/xhtml-css-0.5.zip
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Marshall Roch
>
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>.
Dave Brondsema wrote:
> I don't think the <td> content should be centered. Th centering is fine.
Good catch. Fixed next time I upload. "Menus and Linking" still doesn't
use <th>s on the table near the bottom, though (see FOR-106).
> Also, a "built by forrest" logo should be used at the bottom of index pages
> instead of "built by cocoon".
This is defined in src/documentation/skinconf.xml, so it should be there
for all skins on the Forrest site itself. Personally, I think it should
be changed to "Built with Forrest", so people can see that Forrest is
self-hosting, but it isn't part of my skin.
--
Marshall Roch
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
Quoting Marshall Roch <ma...@exclupen.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> I mentioned a while ago that I had fixed most of the outstanding issues
> with the "whs"/"xhtml-css" skin, but there wasn't much response.
>
> If people could take a look, perhaps even trying it on their projects,
> I'd really like the feedback. Any browser bugs, missing features, or
> other things of that nature.
>
I don't think the <td> content should be centered. Th centering is fine.
Also, a "built by forrest" logo should be used at the bottom of index pages
instead of "built by cocoon".
--
Dave Brondsema
dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net - personal
http://www.splike.com - programming
http://csx.calvin.edu - student org
Re: [RFC] xhtml-css skin
Posted by Mark Eggers <it...@yahoo.com>.
IE 6.0.2 on Win/2000 Pro.
-------------------------
Sizing appears to be off - PDF icon does not appear
and there is no scroll bar at the bottom to reach it.
Mouse-over on active tab (for instance if you're on
the home page) makes the link disappear.
Netscape 7.1 on Win/2000 Pro.
-----------------------------
Table caption seems a bit compressed.
Both browsers
-------------
I noticed that the 'visited' links have no different
appearance in the sidebar than the unvisited links.
These might be fixed by going to a strict doctype
rather than the transitional / loose doctype.
I don't mean to sound critical . . . hope this helps.
I've been trying to write my own skin using css so I
understand how challenging it is.
I think you've done a great job.
/mde/
just my two cents . . . .
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