[REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

In January I reported that the Tiles community has been inactive long
enough that it may be time to make a change. In discussions on the
dev@ list some committers indicated that they had plans to do some
revolutionary work that would be starting in the next few months. We
agreed to give the project another six months before addressing the
issue again. Those six months have passed and no significant change
has taken place. My feeling is that it is time for some kind of
change. I had intended to start a discussion about that early this
month, but the last three months have proven difficult for me to do
much of anything due to workload at my day job. So, unfortunately, the
Tiles community is finding out this information at the same time the
board is. At a minimum it is probably time to change the project
chair. It may be time to consider options such as the attic. It is my
intention to start a discussion on the dev@ list this week about the
future of Tiles and see what direction the community desires. If
desired, I'd be happy to send a special report next month or a
resolution for change if something concrete comes up.

There is still one step left in the process to complete our branding
requirements. That step is to check the status of the project DOAP
file. As noted above, my time availability has been near zero, so I
still have not completed this task.

Other than that, there has been little activity in the Tiles project
this quarter.

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Matt Benson <gu...@gmail.com>]

Myles?

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Antonio Petrelli
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/6/15 Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>
>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Mck <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > My biggest upset here is not getting Tiles-3 out. I would be eager and
>> > can commit in participating in getting this out the door. After that I
>> > would be more happy to attic the project (or move it to Spring if
>> > they'll have us).
>>
>> Tiles 3 can still be done. Nothing stops you from grabbing the code
>> and starting a new project at Google Code called Mick 3 or whatever
>> :-) The only thing Apache holds tight to is the marks. It seems to me
>> that it wouldn't be impossible for Apache to give up the Tiles mark if
>> it is transferred to another non-profit org and the project here is
>> moved to the Attic. But I suspect that process would be somewhat
>> arduous. As far as I know it's never been done before.
>>
>
> IBATIS moved to the attic and the original team had to rename it "MyBatis".
>
> Antonio
>

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Antonio Petrelli
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> IBATIS moved to the attic and the original team had to rename it "MyBatis".

That was a little different situation though because several of the
PMC members simply decided unilaterally to leave the ASF. My
understanding is that the ASF, as a 501(c)3 non-profit org can only
transfer assets like marks to another 501(c)3 org, not to an
individual or for-profit company. So if there is another group out
there that wants to continue Tiles development under the Tiles name,
my first question for them would be "why not Apache?" If, after that,
there's a good reason to transfer the community, then I'd be happy to
pursue that.

Greg

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Antonio Petrelli <an...@gmail.com>]

2011/6/15 Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Mck <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> > My biggest upset here is not getting Tiles-3 out. I would be eager and
> > can commit in participating in getting this out the door. After that I
> > would be more happy to attic the project (or move it to Spring if
> > they'll have us).
>
> Tiles 3 can still be done. Nothing stops you from grabbing the code
> and starting a new project at Google Code called Mick 3 or whatever
> :-) The only thing Apache holds tight to is the marks. It seems to me
> that it wouldn't be impossible for Apache to give up the Tiles mark if
> it is transferred to another non-profit org and the project here is
> moved to the Attic. But I suspect that process would be somewhat
> arduous. As far as I know it's never been done before.
>

IBATIS moved to the attic and the original team had to rename it "MyBatis".

Antonio

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Antonio Petrelli <an...@gmail.com>]

2011/6/15 Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 5:10 PM, mck <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Antonio,
> >  are you interested in finding a new name for Tiles-3 and setting it up
> > on Google code?
> >  Then the existing Tiles-2 project can be left in the Attic as-is.
>
> I'm sorry, I don't think I've been clear. As of right now, there's no
> reason to do this. If you want to start Tiles 3, then by all means
> start hacking on it, right here at the Apache project. No need to fork
> over to Google Code unless we go to the Attic -- or you just don't
> want to work at Apache anymore.
>

In fact I wanted to say that I am not going to fork it, at least for a
while.

Antonio

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>]

I'll make sure everything looks right, but i'm crushed for time this
summer.  But i'm at least up for a +1 vote even if i don't properly
test it.  I trust you three from long experience.  :)

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:03 AM, Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:07 AM, Antonio Petrelli
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Great news! Obviously I'm still willing to test the builds.
>
> +1 Same here.
>
> Greg
>

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 3:07 AM, Antonio Petrelli
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great news! Obviously I'm still willing to test the builds.

+1 Same here.

Greg

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Antonio Petrelli <an...@gmail.com>]

2011/6/16 Mck <mc...@apache.org>

> On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 16:08 -0500, Greg Reddin wrote:
> > If you want to start Tiles 3, then by all means
> > start hacking on it, right here at the Apache project.
>
> Then i will start using and testing Tiles-3.
> Expect an update next week, hopefully, Antonio if you still have
> patience left for me, thereafter we can get a vote through to bring it
> out of sandbox.
>
>
Great news! Obviously I'm still willing to test the builds.

Thanks
Antonio

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Mck <mc...@apache.org>]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 16:08 -0500, Greg Reddin wrote:
> If you want to start Tiles 3, then by all means
> start hacking on it, right here at the Apache project. 

Then i will start using and testing Tiles-3.
Expect an update next week, hopefully, Antonio if you still have
patience left for me, thereafter we can get a vote through to bring it
out of sandbox.

~mck

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 5:10 PM, mck <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> Antonio,
>  are you interested in finding a new name for Tiles-3 and setting it up
> on Google code?
>  Then the existing Tiles-2 project can be left in the Attic as-is.

I'm sorry, I don't think I've been clear. As of right now, there's no
reason to do this. If you want to start Tiles 3, then by all means
start hacking on it, right here at the Apache project. No need to fork
over to Google Code unless we go to the Attic -- or you just don't
want to work at Apache anymore.

If you, and hopefully at least a couple other people are going to
continue working on Tiles then there would be no need for an attic
resolution. You are a committer so you have full rights to the
Subversion repository. Hack away :-)

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[mck <mc...@apache.org>]

On Wed, 2011-06-15 at 10:54 -0500, Greg Reddin wrote:
> > My biggest upset here is not getting Tiles-3 out. I would be eager and
> > can commit in participating in getting this out the door. After that I
> > would be more happy to attic the project (or move it to Spring if
> > they'll have us).
> 
> Tiles 3 can still be done. Nothing stops you from grabbing the code
> and starting a new project at Google Code called Mick 3 or whatever 

Antonio,
 are you interested in finding a new name for Tiles-3 and setting it up
on Google code? 
 Then the existing Tiles-2 project can be left in the Attic as-is.

~mck

-- 
“Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created
them.” - Albert Einstein 
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Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Mck <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
> My biggest upset here is not getting Tiles-3 out. I would be eager and
> can commit in participating in getting this out the door. After that I
> would be more happy to attic the project (or move it to Spring if
> they'll have us).

Tiles 3 can still be done. Nothing stops you from grabbing the code
and starting a new project at Google Code called Mick 3 or whatever
:-) The only thing Apache holds tight to is the marks. It seems to me
that it wouldn't be impossible for Apache to give up the Tiles mark if
it is transferred to another non-profit org and the project here is
moved to the Attic. But I suspect that process would be somewhat
arduous. As far as I know it's never been done before.

Greg

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Mck <mc...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 10:26 -0500, Greg Reddin wrote:
> In discussions on the
> dev@ list some committers indicated that they had plans to do some
> revolutionary work that would be starting in the next few months. 

The most revolutionary i had proposed (integration with esi:inline) has
fallen through as Varnish now has no support for that feature.

My biggest upset here is not getting Tiles-3 out. I would be eager and
can commit in participating in getting this out the door. After that I
would be more happy to attic the project (or move it to Spring if
they'll have us).

Otherwise my participation has been minimal due to work load and a third
kid about to be born.

At work we are using Tiles heavily and actively, but there just doesn't
seem any need for bug fixes or new features. It's wonderful how it is.

~mck

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

Hi Greg,

No need for an additional report. We'll look for a new Chair
resolution, or an update on the project in a quarter. The Board is
happy as long as you're aware of the activity problem and working on
resolving it properly.

Thanks,
-g

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 11:26, Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In January I reported that the Tiles community has been inactive long
> enough that it may be time to make a change. In discussions on the
> dev@ list some committers indicated that they had plans to do some
> revolutionary work that would be starting in the next few months. We
> agreed to give the project another six months before addressing the
> issue again. Those six months have passed and no significant change
> has taken place. My feeling is that it is time for some kind of
> change. I had intended to start a discussion about that early this
> month, but the last three months have proven difficult for me to do
> much of anything due to workload at my day job. So, unfortunately, the
> Tiles community is finding out this information at the same time the
> board is. At a minimum it is probably time to change the project
> chair. It may be time to consider options such as the attic. It is my
> intention to start a discussion on the dev@ list this week about the
> future of Tiles and see what direction the community desires. If
> desired, I'd be happy to send a special report next month or a
> resolution for change if something concrete comes up.
>
> There is still one step left in the process to complete our branding
> requirements. That step is to check the status of the project DOAP
> file. As noted above, my time availability has been near zero, so I
> still have not completed this task.
>
> Other than that, there has been little activity in the Tiles project
> this quarter.
>

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Antonio Petrelli
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I must admit that I was not active at all.
> Sincerely I was pretty tired of being the only developer, so I decided to
> find fun somewhere else (GWT and Android).

I figured that was the case and I don't blame you. In some ways I feel
like it was a failure on my part to not be more involved. On the other
hand, it was a very natural change for me as my day-to-day work moved
in very different directions. So, even though I've loved what Tiles
was about from the very beginning and was very excited to see its new
direction with Tiles 2, it would've simply been a hobby for me to
continue involvement. And my wife will tell you I have too many
hobbies already :-) Nonetheless, I always had some desire that I would
eventually get back into it, but it never happened.

So at this point I'm comfortable, though a bit sad about moving Tiles
to the attic. I do think we should expand the discussion a bit first,
though, and give the users one more chance to offer an opinion and
step up to help. I'll do that right now.

Greg

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Nathan Bubna <nb...@gmail.com>]

+1 I see no plan for future work and insufficient community to support
releases.  It's best to hand it over to Attic for long term
maintenance of the current release(s) availability and such.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Antonio Petrelli
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/6/13 Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>
>
>> Other than that, there has been little activity in the Tiles project
>> this quarter.
>>
>
> I must admit that I was not active at all.
> Sincerely I was pretty tired of being the only developer, so I decided to
> find fun somewhere else (GWT and Android).
> Probably the attic is the best place. If Mick wants to continue the work, he
> can still fork and work on it.
>
> Sad but true.
> Antonio
>

Re: [REPORT] Apache Tiles

[Antonio Petrelli <an...@gmail.com>]

2011/6/13 Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>

> Other than that, there has been little activity in the Tiles project
> this quarter.
>

I must admit that I was not active at all.
Sincerely I was pretty tired of being the only developer, so I decided to
find fun somewhere else (GWT and Android).
Probably the attic is the best place. If Mick wants to continue the work, he
can still fork and work on it.

Sad but true.
Antonio