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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Liu Ted <te...@yahoo.com.INVALID> on 2019/03/05 06:12:27 UTC

Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Hi, A couple of questions are raised from a project who is interested in donating to ASF and entering the ASF Incubator:
1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I searched thru the policies and guidances but cannot find the answers. Could anyone shed some light here?

Best regards,

Ted Liu, 
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

Re: Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by 吴晟 Sheng Wu <wu...@foxmail.com>.

> Hi Sheng, Thanks. Yes, It does mean the original contributor team (or company). I guess the questions were to understand all possible scenarios and options before they actually move forward to donating.


Yes. Even I don't want to see leave, no matter retire or original team leave. But that is an option.
Please don't feel the ASF or Incubator would lock-in. They act as individuals, they could choose.


------------------
Sheng Wu
Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
Twitter, wusheng1108


 




------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Liu Ted"<te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>;
Date:  Tue, Mar 5, 2019 02:49 PM
To:  "吴晟 Sheng Wu"<wu...@incubator.apache.org>;

Subject:  回复：Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?



Hi Sheng, Thanks. Yes, It does mean the original contributor team (or company). I guess the questions were to understand all possible scenarios and options before they actually move forward to donating.

Best regards,

Ted Liu, 
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador 
 
  2019 年 3 月 5 日周二 14:36，吴晟 Sheng Wu<wu...@foxmail.com> 写道：   Hi
> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
I think it could be. But I hope this would not happen.Such as the community doesn't think the ASF fits their requirements(not common case), or retire from incubator because of leaking activities for a long time.
> After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I assume you said TLP has right, it means the original contributor team(or company) has right. Correct me if I am wrong.During the incubator and graduate successfully, the PMC of TLP should be diversity,new PMC/committer should join the community because of it is open sourced, some may because trusting ASF.If your withdraw means close sources, even it just means open out of ASF,I doubt it will success from the PMC vote.
Just my thought:) It is really rare to have this, except retirement, which happens sometimes, sadly.
------------------Sheng WuApache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, ZipkinTwitter, wusheng1108 

------------------ Original ------------------From:  "Liu Ted"<te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>;Date:  Tue, Mar 5, 2019 02:12 PMTo:  "Incubator General"<ge...@incubator.apache.org>;Subject:  Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?
Hi, A couple of questions are raised from a project who is interested in donating to ASF and entering the ASF Incubator:
1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I searched thru the policies and guidances but cannot find the answers. Could anyone shed some light here?

Best regards,

Ted Liu, 
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

回复：Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Liu Ted <te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.

Hi Sheng, Thanks. Yes, It does mean the original contributor team (or company). I guess the questions were to understand all possible scenarios and options before they actually move forward to donating.

Best regards,

Ted Liu,
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

2019 年 3 月 5 日周二 14:36，吴晟 Sheng Wu<wu...@foxmail.com> 写道： Hi
> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
I think it could be. But I hope this would not happen.Such as the community doesn't think the ASF fits their requirements(not common case), or retire from incubator because of leaking activities for a long time.
> After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I assume you said TLP has right, it means the original contributor team(or company) has right. Correct me if I am wrong.During the incubator and graduate successfully, the PMC of TLP should be diversity,new PMC/committer should join the community because of it is open sourced, some may because trusting ASF.If your withdraw means close sources, even it just means open out of ASF,I doubt it will success from the PMC vote.
Just my thought:) It is really rare to have this, except retirement, which happens sometimes, sadly.
------------------Sheng WuApache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, ZipkinTwitter, wusheng1108

------------------ Original ------------------From: "Liu Ted"<te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>;Date: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 02:12 PMTo: "Incubator General"<ge...@incubator.apache.org>;Subject: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?
Hi, A couple of questions are raised from a project who is interested in donating to ASF and entering the ASF Incubator:
1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I searched thru the policies and guidances but cannot find the answers. Could anyone shed some light here?

Best regards,

Ted Liu,
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by 吴晟 Sheng Wu <wu...@foxmail.com>.

Hi


> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?


I think it could be. But I hope this would not happen.
Such as the community doesn't think the ASF fits their requirements(not common case), 
or retire from incubator because of leaking activities for a long time.


> After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?


I assume you said TLP has right, it means the original contributor team(or company) has right. Correct me if I am wrong.
During the incubator and graduate successfully, the PMC of TLP should be diversity,
new PMC/committer should join the community because of it is open sourced, some may because trusting ASF.
If your withdraw means close sources, even it just means open out of ASF,
I doubt it will success from the PMC vote.


Just my thought:) It is really rare to have this, except retirement, which happens sometimes, sadly.


------------------
Sheng Wu
Apache SkyWalking, ShardingSphere, Zipkin
Twitter, wusheng1108


 




------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Liu Ted"<te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>;
Date:  Tue, Mar 5, 2019 02:12 PM
To:  "Incubator General"<ge...@incubator.apache.org>;

Subject:  Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?



Hi, A couple of questions are raised from a project who is interested in donating to ASF and entering the ASF Incubator:
1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?
I searched thru the policies and guidances but cannot find the answers. Could anyone shed some light here?

Best regards,

Ted Liu, 
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

回复：Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Liu Ted <te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.

Hi Justin, Thank you for the prompt reply. The questions were raised by a project who is interested in donating to ASF and joining the Incubator. I think they'd want to know about entering and exiting options and flexibility in case they feel not fitting. I will explore more later.

Best regards,

Ted Liu, 
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador 
 
  2019 年 3 月 5 日周二 14:27，Justin Mclean<ju...@classsoftware.com> 写道：   
Hi,

Is there a specific reason you ask this?

> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?

Yes it usually called retiring (although podling don’t really retire) , but some projects live on elsewhere (like GitHub). The existing ALv2 would need to be honoured and the project may need to change it name from the Apache one, but it may not have to. See for example ODF Toolkit.

> 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?

An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider.

I would assume if a project asked the board to no longer be an Apache project / podling they would consider it and probably wouldn’t want to keep a project here against it’s will. I can’t recall this ever happening.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://attic.apache.org/process.html

Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.

On 05/03/2019 14:09, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 7:27 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> ...An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere,
>> but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider....
> 
> That's what happened in 2010 to http://ibatis.apache.org/ which was
> forked to mybatis.org - note the name change, required as the IBatis
> trademark belonged to the ASF.
> 
> Nobody can prevent someone from forking an Apache project elsewhere,
> but the trademarks of TLPs belong to the ASF, so that we can keep the
> project alive if someone else wants to work on it.
> 
> In the case of IBatis, the Apache project moved to the Attic about the
> same time, http://attic.apache.org/projects/ibatis.html - but Attic
> projects can be restarted, so in general it makes sense for us to keep
> the name.

Generally, yes. But. There is the option to allow the community to
continue to use the trademark (obviously without the preceding
"Apache"). Each request gets looked at on a case by case basis.

Mark

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Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@codeconsult.ch>.

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 7:27 AM Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> ...An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere,
> but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider....

That's what happened in 2010 to http://ibatis.apache.org/ which was
forked to mybatis.org - note the name change, required as the IBatis
trademark belonged to the ASF.

Nobody can prevent someone from forking an Apache project elsewhere,
but the trademarks of TLPs belong to the ASF, so that we can keep the
project alive if someone else wants to work on it.

In the case of IBatis, the Apache project moved to the Attic about the
same time, http://attic.apache.org/projects/ibatis.html - but Attic
projects can be restarted, so in general it makes sense for us to keep
the name.

-Bertrand

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回复：Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Liu Ted <te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.

Hi Danny, For Trademark, only after graduation as a TLP, the project donation is then completed and the trademark belongs to ASF, which cannot be withdrawn or reversed, right?

Best regards,

Ted Liu,
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

2019 年 3 月 5 日周二 14:38，Danny Angus<da...@gmail.com> 写道： I think we have had projects "leave", back in the day, before we were structured like this. But thinking about a example, maybe they were sub-projects.
It's worth noting that anyone is free to fork an Apache licenced project at any time, so there is some protection should the founders which to leave the foundation with their code. Trademarks would be different.
D.

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019, 6:27 am Justin Mclean, <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is there a specific reason you ask this?

> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?

Yes it usually called retiring (although podling don’t really retire) , but some projects live on elsewhere (like GitHub). The existing ALv2 would need to be honoured and the project may need to change it name from the Apache one, but it may not have to. See for example ODF Toolkit.

> 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?

An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider.

I would assume if a project asked the board to no longer be an Apache project / podling they would consider it and probably wouldn’t want to keep a project here against it’s will. I can’t recall this ever happening.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://attic.apache.org/process.html
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Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 4, 2019, at 10:38 PM, Danny Angus <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think we have had projects "leave", back in the day, before we were
> structured like this. But thinking about a example, maybe they were
> sub-projects.
> 
> It's worth noting that anyone is free to fork an Apache licenced project at
> any time, so there is some protection should the founders which to leave
> the foundation with their code. Trademarks would be different.

Yes, trademarks are different, but if the project already has an existing registered trademark that could be discussed with VP, Brand. It has happened that trademark assignment has been negotiated to occur once a podling graduates, but it is not the normal case.

Write trademarks@apache.org if you want to discuss.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> D.
> 
>> On Tue, 5 Mar 2019, 6:27 am Justin Mclean, <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is there a specific reason you ask this?
>> 
>>> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also
>> entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
>> 
>> Yes it usually called retiring (although podling don’t really retire) ,
>> but some projects live on elsewhere (like GitHub). The existing ALv2 would
>> need to be honoured and the project may need to change it name from the
>> Apache one, but it may not have to. See for example ODF Toolkit.
>> 
>>> 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to
>> voluntarily withdraw?
>> 
>> An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development
>> could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark
>> issues to consider.
>> 
>> I would assume if a project asked the board to no longer be an Apache
>> project / podling they would consider it and probably wouldn’t want to keep
>> a project here against it’s will. I can’t recall this ever happening.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>> 
>> 1. https://attic.apache.org/process.html
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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回复：Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Liu Ted <te...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.

Got it. It's quite clear to me now.

Best regards,

Ted Liu,
ASF Member & Sponsor Ambassador

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019, 6:27 am Justin Mclean, <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:

Hi,

Is there a specific reason you ask this?

> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?

> 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?

An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider.

Thanks,
Justin

Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Danny Angus <da...@gmail.com>.

I think we have had projects "leave", back in the day, before we were
structured like this. But thinking about a example, maybe they were
sub-projects.

It's worth noting that anyone is free to fork an Apache licenced project at
any time, so there is some protection should the founders which to leave
the foundation with their code. Trademarks would be different.

D.

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019, 6:27 am Justin Mclean, <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Is there a specific reason you ask this?
>
> > 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also
> entitled to voluntarily withdraw?
>
> Yes it usually called retiring (although podling don’t really retire) ,
> but some projects live on elsewhere (like GitHub). The existing ALv2 would
> need to be honoured and the project may need to change it name from the
> Apache one, but it may not have to. See for example ODF Toolkit.
>
> > 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to
> voluntarily withdraw?
>
> An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development
> could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark
> issues to consider.
>
> I would assume if a project asked the board to no longer be an Apache
> project / podling they would consider it and probably wouldn’t want to keep
> a project here against it’s will. I can’t recall this ever happening.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://attic.apache.org/process.html
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: Withdraw from Incubator or TLP status?

Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.

Hi,

Is there a specific reason you ask this?

> 1. In the incubation period, because of some special matters, is it also entitled to voluntarily withdraw?

Yes it usually called retiring (although podling don’t really retire) , but some projects live on elsewhere (like GitHub). The existing ALv2 would need to be honoured and the project may need to change it name from the Apache one, but it may not have to. See for example ODF Toolkit.

> 2. After becoming a TLP, can this TLP still have the right to voluntarily withdraw?

An Apache project can be retired to the Attic. [1] After this development could possibly occur elsewhere, but there may be naming and trademark issues to consider.

I would assume if a project asked the board to no longer be an Apache project / podling they would consider it and probably wouldn’t want to keep a project here against it’s will. I can’t recall this ever happening.

Thanks,
Justin

1. https://attic.apache.org/process.html
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