dependencies (was: cvs commit: apr-util CHANGES apu-config.in)

[Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>]

On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:50:04AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:09:01AM -0700, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> > As I said when apr-config and apu-config were created, it should ONLY
> > be used from an independently installed APR or APR-UTIL.
>...
> I believe we must continue to support bundling of apr and apr-util.
> apr and apr-util do not have the critical mass to not support
> bundling.  Requiring users of httpd or Subversion or flood to
> separately install versions of apr and apr-util seems a path to
> disaster if we want people to use projects which use APR.

This is a key point.

Subversion catches a lot of flack for its dependencies. We have a lot:
httpd, apr, apr-util, Neon, expat, Berkeley DB. Want to know the ones that
we catch flak about? The ones that are NOT bundled.

Each of the components that SVN uses are "bleeding edge" or close to it.
They are not installed on most machines, so it is a hassle for people to go
and grab them. To find the right version. To get it installed. To do that in
the right order.

The ones we bundle in the SVN tarballs? Smooth as pie... nobody notices.

[ we bundle apr, apr-util (and expat), and neon. we do not bundle httpd or
  berkeley db 4.0 ]

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

Re: dependencies (was: cvs commit: apr-util CHANGES apu-config.in)

[Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>]

On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:33:37PM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:50:04AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:09:01AM -0700, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> > > As I said when apr-config and apu-config were created, it should ONLY
> > > be used from an independently installed APR or APR-UTIL.
> >...
> > I believe we must continue to support bundling of apr and apr-util.
> > apr and apr-util do not have the critical mass to not support
> > bundling.  Requiring users of httpd or Subversion or flood to
> > separately install versions of apr and apr-util seems a path to
> > disaster if we want people to use projects which use APR.
> 
> This is a key point.
> 
> Subversion catches a lot of flack for its dependencies. We have a lot:
> httpd, apr, apr-util, Neon, expat, Berkeley DB. Want to know the ones that
> we catch flak about? The ones that are NOT bundled.
> 
> Each of the components that SVN uses are "bleeding edge" or close to it.
> They are not installed on most machines, so it is a hassle for people to go
> and grab them. To find the right version. To get it installed. To do that in
> the right order.
> 
> The ones we bundle in the SVN tarballs? Smooth as pie... nobody notices.
> 
> [ we bundle apr, apr-util (and expat), and neon. we do not bundle httpd or
>   berkeley db 4.0 ]

Unfortunately, you have both missed my point. I am fully in favor of
keeping APR's _ability_ to be bundled in projects like SVN, httpd, and
flood. Is that clear?


APR was being bundled in projects like SVN, httpd and flood long
before apr-config was invented. At the time, APR could not easily be
installed independently of these projects, therefore bundling was the
only feasible method for using APR. In more recent times it was realized
that as we approach 1.0, we're going to need to give APR the ability
to be an independently installed library. In order to facilitate this,
apr-config was invented.

It seems to me that apr-config and apu-config have been abused to support
this older method of APR use. I strongly believe that by overcomplicating
these scripts, we will make it incredibly more difficult to use APR.
I also see no reason why bundling needs to be supported by these scripts
when it is already supported, and has been so for a very long time.

-aaron