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Posted to dev@tinkerpop.apache.org by Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com> on 2019/04/30 17:11:36 UTC
TP4 + Cypher
Hello,
I had the most interesting meeting this morning with Dmitry Novikov (the author of Cypher-for-Gremlin). The fellow is sharp and has a thorough understanding of Gremlin (language + mechanics). Here are two points to consider:
1. https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions <https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions>
- This page presents the issues that he is running into trying to get Cypher-for-Gremlin to be 100% openCypher compliant.
- When he went through each problem one-by-one, I was able to say that most of his issues are known and have respective solutions in TP4.
- However, there are some concepts he presented that I was completely unaware of. (e.g. generators!)
2. Neo4j is interested in working closely with TP4.
- They want Cypher to be the reference implementation language for TP4 property graphs.
- I think this is a great idea.
- I see SPARQL being the reference implementation language for TP4 RDF stores.
- I see SQL being the reference implementation language for TP4 RDBMs.
- Finally, I see Gremlin as the multi-model assembly language for the TP4 VM.
- graphs, triples, tables, documents, .. Gremlin can do it all.
I really like Dmitry and believe collaborating with him will benefit the project. When tp4/ stabilizes, I offered that he start working on a org.apache.tinkerpop.language.cypher <dependency/>. With both of us working side-by-side, we should be able to rectify all the points he identifies in (1) above and at the same time, riff on each others’ knowledge to gain a deeper understanding of what all of this is all about!
Any thoughts?,
Marko.
http://rredux.com <http://rredux.com/>
Re: TP4 + Cypher
Posted by Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>.
I think it's a good idea to have first-class cypher (gql?) support here in
TinkerPop along with the other query languages you mentioned. We will
create a much better user experience if it works that way which is
evidenced I think in the decision to make language variants first class in
TP3.
I think that Dmitry is already a subscriber to this list, (but I'm not
sure) - if he's not, marko, perhaps you can encourage him to join so that
he can be aware of and a part of the ongoing developments.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:59 PM Joshua Shinavier <jo...@fortytwo.net> wrote:
> +1
>
> For another data point, Alastair Green, also of Neo4j, was here at Uber
> last week to align on property graph standardization. This was just before
> the thread on universal structure / algebraic property graphs. He was open
> to using APG as a high-level data model from which the property graph
> standard (which will be implemented by Neo4j) can be derived by adding
> constraints. Jan Hidders, Ryan Wisnesky, and I have been working on a
> set-based formulation of the model which should enable this. If Neo4j is to
> be the reference implementation for TP4 property graphs, then it will be
> good to have Dimitry in the loop w.r.t. the data modeling discussions, as
> well.
>
> Josh
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:11 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I had the most interesting meeting this morning with Dmitry Novikov (the
> > author of Cypher-for-Gremlin). The fellow is sharp and has a thorough
> > understanding of Gremlin (language + mechanics). Here are two points to
> > consider:
> >
> > 1.
> >
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > <
> >
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > >
> > - This page presents the issues that he is running into
> > trying to get Cypher-for-Gremlin to be 100% openCypher compliant.
> > - When he went through each problem one-by-one, I was
> able
> > to say that most of his issues are known and have respective solutions in
> > TP4.
> > - However, there are some concepts he presented that I
> was
> > completely unaware of. (e.g. generators!)
> >
> > 2. Neo4j is interested in working closely with TP4.
> > - They want Cypher to be the reference implementation
> > language for TP4 property graphs.
> > - I think this is a great idea.
> > - I see SPARQL being the reference implementation
> language
> > for TP4 RDF stores.
> > - I see SQL being the reference implementation language
> > for TP4 RDBMs.
> > - Finally, I see Gremlin as the multi-model assembly
> > language for the TP4 VM.
> > - graphs, triples, tables, documents, .. Gremlin
> > can do it all.
> >
> > I really like Dmitry and believe collaborating with him will benefit the
> > project. When tp4/ stabilizes, I offered that he start working on a
> > org.apache.tinkerpop.language.cypher <dependency/>. With both of us
> working
> > side-by-side, we should be able to rectify all the points he identifies
> in
> > (1) above and at the same time, riff on each others’ knowledge to gain a
> > deeper understanding of what all of this is all about!
> >
> > Any thoughts?,
> > Marko.
> >
> > http://rredux.com <http://rredux.com/>
> >
> >
>
Re: TP4 + Cypher
Posted by Stephen Mallette <sp...@gmail.com>.
Dmitry, please feel free to start new threads here on the dev list with any
specific questions you have around the TP3 implementation. It would be
interesting to hear what kinds of gaps/problems exist in the translation
from cypher to gremlin and how we might make things easier from the Gremlin
side. I think TP3 will be around for a long time, so continued improvements
there are very much on the table and could provide a proving ground for
things in TP4 (or the other way around I suppose as well).
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 6:15 AM dmitry.novikov@neueda.com <
dmitry.novikov@neueda.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Marko, thank you for introduction, meeting was very interesting for me as
> well.
>
> Yes, I am following this list. Hope I will be able to provide valuable
> input in future.
>
> To be fair to all [contributors][1], I'm not the only author of Cypher for
> Gremlin.
>
> Regarding [extensions][2], discussion with Marko made me understand that
> most of these are will be addressed in TP4. I also would be grateful if you
> could suggest better translation or workarounds for TP3.
>
> Regards,
> Dmitry
>
> [1]:
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/blob/master/CONTRIBUTORS.txt
> [2]:
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
>
> On 2019/04/30 17:59:30, Joshua Shinavier <jo...@fortytwo.net> wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > For another data point, Alastair Green, also of Neo4j, was here at Uber
> > last week to align on property graph standardization. This was just
> before
> > the thread on universal structure / algebraic property graphs. He was
> open
> > to using APG as a high-level data model from which the property graph
> > standard (which will be implemented by Neo4j) can be derived by adding
> > constraints. Jan Hidders, Ryan Wisnesky, and I have been working on a
> > set-based formulation of the model which should enable this. If Neo4j is
> to
> > be the reference implementation for TP4 property graphs, then it will be
> > good to have Dimitry in the loop w.r.t. the data modeling discussions, as
> > well.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:11 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I had the most interesting meeting this morning with Dmitry Novikov
> (the
> > > author of Cypher-for-Gremlin). The fellow is sharp and has a thorough
> > > understanding of Gremlin (language + mechanics). Here are two points to
> > > consider:
> > >
> > > 1.
> > >
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > > <
> > >
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > > >
> > > - This page presents the issues that he is running into
> > > trying to get Cypher-for-Gremlin to be 100% openCypher compliant.
> > > - When he went through each problem one-by-one, I was
> able
> > > to say that most of his issues are known and have respective solutions
> in
> > > TP4.
> > > - However, there are some concepts he presented that I
> was
> > > completely unaware of. (e.g. generators!)
> > >
> > > 2. Neo4j is interested in working closely with TP4.
> > > - They want Cypher to be the reference implementation
> > > language for TP4 property graphs.
> > > - I think this is a great idea.
> > > - I see SPARQL being the reference implementation
> language
> > > for TP4 RDF stores.
> > > - I see SQL being the reference implementation language
> > > for TP4 RDBMs.
> > > - Finally, I see Gremlin as the multi-model assembly
> > > language for the TP4 VM.
> > > - graphs, triples, tables, documents, ..
> Gremlin
> > > can do it all.
> > >
> > > I really like Dmitry and believe collaborating with him will benefit
> the
> > > project. When tp4/ stabilizes, I offered that he start working on a
> > > org.apache.tinkerpop.language.cypher <dependency/>. With both of us
> working
> > > side-by-side, we should be able to rectify all the points he
> identifies in
> > > (1) above and at the same time, riff on each others’ knowledge to gain
> a
> > > deeper understanding of what all of this is all about!
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?,
> > > Marko.
> > >
> > > http://rredux.com <http://rredux.com/>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: TP4 + Cypher
Posted by dm...@neueda.com,
dm...@neueda.com.
Hello all,
Marko, thank you for introduction, meeting was very interesting for me as well.
Yes, I am following this list. Hope I will be able to provide valuable input in future.
To be fair to all [contributors][1], I'm not the only author of Cypher for Gremlin.
Regarding [extensions][2], discussion with Marko made me understand that most of these are will be addressed in TP4. I also would be grateful if you could suggest better translation or workarounds for TP3.
Regards,
Dmitry
[1]: https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/blob/master/CONTRIBUTORS.txt
[2]: https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
On 2019/04/30 17:59:30, Joshua Shinavier <jo...@fortytwo.net> wrote:
> +1
>
> For another data point, Alastair Green, also of Neo4j, was here at Uber
> last week to align on property graph standardization. This was just before
> the thread on universal structure / algebraic property graphs. He was open
> to using APG as a high-level data model from which the property graph
> standard (which will be implemented by Neo4j) can be derived by adding
> constraints. Jan Hidders, Ryan Wisnesky, and I have been working on a
> set-based formulation of the model which should enable this. If Neo4j is to
> be the reference implementation for TP4 property graphs, then it will be
> good to have Dimitry in the loop w.r.t. the data modeling discussions, as
> well.
>
> Josh
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:11 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I had the most interesting meeting this morning with Dmitry Novikov (the
> > author of Cypher-for-Gremlin). The fellow is sharp and has a thorough
> > understanding of Gremlin (language + mechanics). Here are two points to
> > consider:
> >
> > 1.
> > https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > <
> > https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> > >
> > - This page presents the issues that he is running into
> > trying to get Cypher-for-Gremlin to be 100% openCypher compliant.
> > - When he went through each problem one-by-one, I was able
> > to say that most of his issues are known and have respective solutions in
> > TP4.
> > - However, there are some concepts he presented that I was
> > completely unaware of. (e.g. generators!)
> >
> > 2. Neo4j is interested in working closely with TP4.
> > - They want Cypher to be the reference implementation
> > language for TP4 property graphs.
> > - I think this is a great idea.
> > - I see SPARQL being the reference implementation language
> > for TP4 RDF stores.
> > - I see SQL being the reference implementation language
> > for TP4 RDBMs.
> > - Finally, I see Gremlin as the multi-model assembly
> > language for the TP4 VM.
> > - graphs, triples, tables, documents, .. Gremlin
> > can do it all.
> >
> > I really like Dmitry and believe collaborating with him will benefit the
> > project. When tp4/ stabilizes, I offered that he start working on a
> > org.apache.tinkerpop.language.cypher <dependency/>. With both of us working
> > side-by-side, we should be able to rectify all the points he identifies in
> > (1) above and at the same time, riff on each others’ knowledge to gain a
> > deeper understanding of what all of this is all about!
> >
> > Any thoughts?,
> > Marko.
> >
> > http://rredux.com <http://rredux.com/>
> >
> >
>
Re: TP4 + Cypher
Posted by Joshua Shinavier <jo...@fortytwo.net>.
+1
For another data point, Alastair Green, also of Neo4j, was here at Uber
last week to align on property graph standardization. This was just before
the thread on universal structure / algebraic property graphs. He was open
to using APG as a high-level data model from which the property graph
standard (which will be implemented by Neo4j) can be derived by adding
constraints. Jan Hidders, Ryan Wisnesky, and I have been working on a
set-based formulation of the model which should enable this. If Neo4j is to
be the reference implementation for TP4 property graphs, then it will be
good to have Dimitry in the loop w.r.t. the data modeling discussions, as
well.
Josh
On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:11 AM Marko Rodriguez <ok...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I had the most interesting meeting this morning with Dmitry Novikov (the
> author of Cypher-for-Gremlin). The fellow is sharp and has a thorough
> understanding of Gremlin (language + mechanics). Here are two points to
> consider:
>
> 1.
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> <
> https://github.com/opencypher/cypher-for-gremlin/tree/master/tinkerpop/cypher-gremlin-extensions
> >
> - This page presents the issues that he is running into
> trying to get Cypher-for-Gremlin to be 100% openCypher compliant.
> - When he went through each problem one-by-one, I was able
> to say that most of his issues are known and have respective solutions in
> TP4.
> - However, there are some concepts he presented that I was
> completely unaware of. (e.g. generators!)
>
> 2. Neo4j is interested in working closely with TP4.
> - They want Cypher to be the reference implementation
> language for TP4 property graphs.
> - I think this is a great idea.
> - I see SPARQL being the reference implementation language
> for TP4 RDF stores.
> - I see SQL being the reference implementation language
> for TP4 RDBMs.
> - Finally, I see Gremlin as the multi-model assembly
> language for the TP4 VM.
> - graphs, triples, tables, documents, .. Gremlin
> can do it all.
>
> I really like Dmitry and believe collaborating with him will benefit the
> project. When tp4/ stabilizes, I offered that he start working on a
> org.apache.tinkerpop.language.cypher <dependency/>. With both of us working
> side-by-side, we should be able to rectify all the points he identifies in
> (1) above and at the same time, riff on each others’ knowledge to gain a
> deeper understanding of what all of this is all about!
>
> Any thoughts?,
> Marko.
>
> http://rredux.com <http://rredux.com/>
>
>