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Posted to users@servicemix.apache.org by Owen Thomas <ot...@wcg.net.au> on 2007/03/01 03:49:42 UTC
JBI and ESB
Hello.
>From discussions I have been having on other forums, I have come to the
understanding that while JBI allows one to create a way to integrate
applications on a single host, it provides no managed way to group NMR
instances together, achieving an ESB that would integrate what most
businesses have: many different software applications running on
different hardware which need to be brought together to achieve an
integrated business whole.
Can anyone from the ServiceMix user's mailing list clarify this for me
in terms of what ServiceMix (a JBI implementation) offers?
Owen.
Re: JBI and ESB
Posted by Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>.
On 3/1/07, Owen Thomas <ot...@wcg.net.au> wrote:
> Thanks also Bruce for your information.
>
> Although clustering can be provided by the addition of the right Binding
> Component, it became apparent to me that the JBI 1.0 spec concerns
> itself largely with business process semantics on individual hosts.
The 1.0 JBI spec kinda leaves this up to the implementation.
> This isn't really ESB, and this barely satisfies the purpose of business
> integration that I strongly suspect swims around the heads of the
> average CIO. I hope 2.0 will address this shortcoming.
>
> In the meantime for those implementing an ESB with JBI, it looks as if
> beyond the BC's written to allow JMS or HTTP or whatever, one will have
> to write one's own clustering and coordination stuff.
ServiceMix provides clustering as part of it's implementation. Because
ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ it utilizes JMS for clustering
features as noted here:
http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/clustering.html
Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'
Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
Apache ActiveMQ - http://activemq.org/
Apache ServiceMix - http://servicemix.org/
Castor - http://castor.org/
Re: JBI and ESB
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 3/2/07, Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/1/07, Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at> wrote:
> >
> > See
> > http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-works.html#HowStuffWorks-jmsflow
> > ServiceMix JMS Flow.
>
> ServiceMix is designed for distribution. This is easily achieved
> because ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ for this very reason.
> Via the JMS flow and an ActiveMQ network of brokers
> (http://activemq.apache.org/networks-of-brokers.html) JBI containers
> can be distributed across many different hosts. This allows the NMRs
> on each distributed instance to be logically networked so that any
> single NMR in the network has knowledge of components deployed to any
> of the container instances. This is how the NMR can route messages
> from component-to-component and therefore from container-to-container.
FWIW a network of ActiveMQ brokers is not absolutely necessary; you
could just run a single ActiveMQ Broker with a cluster of ServiceMix
instances.
For high availability of messages you might want to use a Master/Slave
pair of brokers.
http://activemq.apache.org/masterslave.html
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
RE: JBI and ESB
Posted by Owen Thomas <ot...@wcg.net.au>.
Hi again.
Thanks Kit and Bruce for you comments. Navigating through how JBI does
ESB is fraught with detail that isn't apparent when one starts out.
The way that you two have figured out an ESB using this gear is
definitely something I'm going to have a good look at. I have been
employed in this position for a little more than three months now, and
am probably going slower than might usually be the case... time will
tell.
I'm going to try to expose internal systems to the outside world via web
services. This looks eminently doable with the 1.0 JBI spec. Integrating
them into an ESB (something that I will consider after I've implemented
perhaps three to five web services) looks a little more complicated, and
without a spec that has anything to say about this, I would have been
quite lost without your help.
I'll follow up on the leads you've given me, and get back to this group
if I need to.
Thanks for your time thus far,
Owen.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kit Plummer [mailto:christopher_plummer@raytheon.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:30 PM
To: servicemix-users@geronimo.apache.org
Subject: Re: JBI and ESB
Owen,
My company utilizes ServiceMix specifically for a distributed
integration platform. JBI/SCA coupling is just a bonus. But, you
are right to a point about writing coordination. The key is that the
coordination you are talking about is simple XML configuration and
not static code.
We are using ActiveMQ's Network of Brokers feature extensively to
link together, via a logical NMR, a very distributed set of nodes.
We have added in some custom functionality that we required to
provide levels of security - but, you'd have to do the same thing
with any proprietary ESB solution.
Kit
On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Owen Thomas wrote:
> Thanks also Bruce for your information.
>
> Although clustering can be provided by the addition of the right
> Binding
> Component, it became apparent to me that the JBI 1.0 spec concerns
> itself largely with business process semantics on individual hosts.
>
> This isn't really ESB, and this barely satisfies the purpose of
> business
> integration that I strongly suspect swims around the heads of the
> average CIO. I hope 2.0 will address this shortcoming.
>
> In the meantime for those implementing an ESB with JBI, it looks as if
> beyond the BC's written to allow JMS or HTTP or whatever, one will
> have
> to write one's own clustering and coordination stuff.
>
> Owen.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Snyder [mailto:bruce.snyder@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> To: servicemix-users@geronimo.apache.org
> Subject: Re: JBI and ESB
>
> On 3/1/07, Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at>
> wrote:
>>
>> See
>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-
> works.html#HowStuffWork
> s-jmsflow
>> ServiceMix JMS Flow.
>
> ServiceMix is designed for distribution. This is easily achieved
> because ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ for this very reason.
> Via the JMS flow and an ActiveMQ network of brokers
> (http://activemq.apache.org/networks-of-brokers.html) JBI containers
> can be distributed across many different hosts. This allows the NMRs
> on each distributed instance to be logically networked so that any
> single NMR in the network has knowledge of components deployed to any
> of the container instances. This is how the NMR can route messages
> from component-to-component and therefore from container-to-container.
>
> Bruce
> --
> perl -e 'print
> unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
> );'
>
> Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
> Apache ActiveMQ - http://activemq.org/
> Apache ServiceMix - http://servicemix.org/
> Castor - http://castor.org/
Re: JBI and ESB
Posted by Kit Plummer <ch...@raytheon.com>.
Owen,
My company utilizes ServiceMix specifically for a distributed
integration platform. JBI/SCA coupling is just a bonus. But, you
are right to a point about writing coordination. The key is that the
coordination you are talking about is simple XML configuration and
not static code.
We are using ActiveMQ's Network of Brokers feature extensively to
link together, via a logical NMR, a very distributed set of nodes.
We have added in some custom functionality that we required to
provide levels of security - but, you'd have to do the same thing
with any proprietary ESB solution.
Kit
On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Owen Thomas wrote:
> Thanks also Bruce for your information.
>
> Although clustering can be provided by the addition of the right
> Binding
> Component, it became apparent to me that the JBI 1.0 spec concerns
> itself largely with business process semantics on individual hosts.
>
> This isn't really ESB, and this barely satisfies the purpose of
> business
> integration that I strongly suspect swims around the heads of the
> average CIO. I hope 2.0 will address this shortcoming.
>
> In the meantime for those implementing an ESB with JBI, it looks as if
> beyond the BC's written to allow JMS or HTTP or whatever, one will
> have
> to write one's own clustering and coordination stuff.
>
> Owen.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Snyder [mailto:bruce.snyder@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:30 PM
> To: servicemix-users@geronimo.apache.org
> Subject: Re: JBI and ESB
>
> On 3/1/07, Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at>
> wrote:
>>
>> See
>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-
> works.html#HowStuffWork
> s-jmsflow
>> ServiceMix JMS Flow.
>
> ServiceMix is designed for distribution. This is easily achieved
> because ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ for this very reason.
> Via the JMS flow and an ActiveMQ network of brokers
> (http://activemq.apache.org/networks-of-brokers.html) JBI containers
> can be distributed across many different hosts. This allows the NMRs
> on each distributed instance to be logically networked so that any
> single NMR in the network has knowledge of components deployed to any
> of the container instances. This is how the NMR can route messages
> from component-to-component and therefore from container-to-container.
>
> Bruce
> --
> perl -e 'print
> unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
> );'
>
> Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
> Apache ActiveMQ - http://activemq.org/
> Apache ServiceMix - http://servicemix.org/
> Castor - http://castor.org/
RE: JBI and ESB
Posted by Owen Thomas <ot...@wcg.net.au>.
Thanks also Bruce for your information.
Although clustering can be provided by the addition of the right Binding
Component, it became apparent to me that the JBI 1.0 spec concerns
itself largely with business process semantics on individual hosts.
This isn't really ESB, and this barely satisfies the purpose of business
integration that I strongly suspect swims around the heads of the
average CIO. I hope 2.0 will address this shortcoming.
In the meantime for those implementing an ESB with JBI, it looks as if
beyond the BC's written to allow JMS or HTTP or whatever, one will have
to write one's own clustering and coordination stuff.
Owen.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Snyder [mailto:bruce.snyder@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:30 PM
To: servicemix-users@geronimo.apache.org
Subject: Re: JBI and ESB
On 3/1/07, Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at> wrote:
>
> See
>
http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-works.html#HowStuffWork
s-jmsflow
> ServiceMix JMS Flow.
ServiceMix is designed for distribution. This is easily achieved
because ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ for this very reason.
Via the JMS flow and an ActiveMQ network of brokers
(http://activemq.apache.org/networks-of-brokers.html) JBI containers
can be distributed across many different hosts. This allows the NMRs
on each distributed instance to be logically networked so that any
single NMR in the network has knowledge of components deployed to any
of the container instances. This is how the NMR can route messages
from component-to-component and therefore from container-to-container.
Bruce
--
perl -e 'print
unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'
Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
Apache ActiveMQ - http://activemq.org/
Apache ServiceMix - http://servicemix.org/
Castor - http://castor.org/
Re: JBI and ESB
Posted by Bruce Snyder <br...@gmail.com>.
On 3/1/07, Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at> wrote:
>
> See
> http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-works.html#HowStuffWorks-jmsflow
> ServiceMix JMS Flow.
ServiceMix is designed for distribution. This is easily achieved
because ServiceMix is built on top of ActiveMQ for this very reason.
Via the JMS flow and an ActiveMQ network of brokers
(http://activemq.apache.org/networks-of-brokers.html) JBI containers
can be distributed across many different hosts. This allows the NMRs
on each distributed instance to be logically networked so that any
single NMR in the network has knowledge of components deployed to any
of the container instances. This is how the NMR can route messages
from component-to-component and therefore from container-to-container.
Bruce
--
perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"
);'
Apache Geronimo - http://geronimo.apache.org/
Apache ActiveMQ - http://activemq.org/
Apache ServiceMix - http://servicemix.org/
Castor - http://castor.org/
RE: JBI and ESB
Posted by Owen Thomas <ot...@wcg.net.au>.
Thanks Juergen for the info.
-----Original Message-----
From: Juergen Mayrbaeurl [mailto:juergen.mayrbaeurl@hvb.sozvers.at]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 8:39 PM
To: servicemix-users@geronimo.apache.org
Subject: Re: JBI and ESB
See
http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-works.html#HowStuffWork
s-jmsflow
ServiceMix JMS Flow.
Greetings
Juergen
Owen Thomas wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
>
>
> From discussions I have been having on other forums, I have come to
the
> understanding that while JBI allows one to create a way to integrate
> applications on a single host, it provides no managed way to group NMR
> instances together, achieving an ESB that would integrate what most
> businesses have: many different software applications running on
> different hardware which need to be brought together to achieve an
> integrated business whole.
>
>
>
> Can anyone from the ServiceMix user's mailing list clarify this for me
> in terms of what ServiceMix (a JBI implementation) offers?
>
>
>
> Owen.
>
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/JBI-and-ESB-tf3324661s12049.html#a9246514
Sent from the ServiceMix - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: JBI and ESB
Posted by Juergen Mayrbaeurl <ju...@hvb.sozvers.at>.
See
http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/how-stuff-works.html#HowStuffWorks-jmsflow
ServiceMix JMS Flow.
Greetings
Juergen
Owen Thomas wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
>
>
> From discussions I have been having on other forums, I have come to the
> understanding that while JBI allows one to create a way to integrate
> applications on a single host, it provides no managed way to group NMR
> instances together, achieving an ESB that would integrate what most
> businesses have: many different software applications running on
> different hardware which need to be brought together to achieve an
> integrated business whole.
>
>
>
> Can anyone from the ServiceMix user's mailing list clarify this for me
> in terms of what ServiceMix (a JBI implementation) offers?
>
>
>
> Owen.
>
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/JBI-and-ESB-tf3324661s12049.html#a9246514
Sent from the ServiceMix - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.