You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net> on 2005/09/14 14:51:34 UTC
4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Hi,
this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon, maybe
someone could answer my question.
My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate Spring)-Petstore
from Ugo.
In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
Business Layer: domain model, ...
Control Layer: ?????
Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through the view)
But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is there
actually a control layer?
Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service layer.
Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
Thanks
Jonny
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by Jan Hinzmann <ja...@geeksonly.de>.
On Friday 16 September 2005 00:38, Johannes Becker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> nice article. Gives a good overview how I should have started. To late now.
> Since my professor likes the 4-tier architecture, oktoberfest is
> starting saturday, and I have to deliver this work soon: I'll just stick
> to the crap I wrote. It won't harm nobody, because its just some
> (non-commercial) work, that will disapear in a shelf.
>
There's time to "refactor it later" and you can argue, that "planned to throw
one away" :o)
> Cheers
> Jonny
>
>
> JimM wrote:
>
> > Have a look at this Struts MVC discussion to "clear your head".
> > http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorials/Struts/
> >
> > */Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net>/* wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > I think you are mixing paradigms
> > This is (probably) the case.
> >
> > > Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have: ...
> > This explanation was very, very helpful. Makes things a lot
> > clearer to
> > me. (And I somehow can stick to my layer-architecture that I'm
> > already
> > writing about in my work for university.)
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jonny
> >
> > Your
> >
> > Ralph Goers wrote:
> >
> > > I think you are mixing paradigms.
> > >
> > > In MVC terms (Model - View - Controller) you have:
> > > Model: Business logic which includes the domain model (the data
> > layer
> > > is simply the persistent representation of your domain model)
> > > View: The pipelines defined in your sitemap that take whatever
> > data is
> > > fed to it and converts the data into something an end user can view
> > > Controller: There are a couple of methods:
> > > a) Pi pelines which call actions and then invoke other pipelines to
> > > render the view based upon the results of the actions.
> > > b) Pipelines that call flow. The flow then calls the appropriate
> > > business logic methods and passes the data on to pipelines which
> > > generate the view.
> > >
> > > Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have:
> > > 1. Presentation tier - consists of Controller and View. Calls
> > are made
> > > to the business tier so whatever "client-side" business methods
> > that
> > > are required must be available.
> > > 2. Business tier - contains the actual business methods and the
> > domain
> > > objects. While, in my opinion, this should always be logically
> > > separate from the presentation tier it can be physically
> > combined into
> > > the same container as the presentation tier if that is warranted.
> > > 3. Data tier - basically, your data management system.
> > >
> > > Note that "controller" is not a layer or a tier. Rather it is
> > part of
> > > the MVC design pattern.
> > >
> > > Ralph
> > >
> > > Johannes Becker wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon,
> > maybe
> > >> someone could answer my question.
> > >>
> > >> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate
> > >> Spring)-Petstore from Ugo.
> > >> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
> > >> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
> > >>
> > >> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
> > >> Business Layer: domain model, ...
> > >> Control Layer: ?????
> > >> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through
> > the view)
> > >>
> > >> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is
> > there
> > >> actually a control layer?
> > >>
> > >> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service
> > layer.
> > >> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Jonny
> > >>
> > >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! for Good
> > Click here to donate <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> to the
> > Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
--
Gruß, Jan
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net>.
Hi,
nice article. Gives a good overview how I should have started. To late now.
Since my professor likes the 4-tier architecture, oktoberfest is
starting saturday, and I have to deliver this work soon: I'll just stick
to the crap I wrote. It won't harm nobody, because its just some
(non-commercial) work, that will disapear in a shelf.
Cheers
Jonny
JimM wrote:
> Have a look at this Struts MVC discussion to "clear your head".
> http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorials/Struts/
>
> */Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net>/* wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I think you are mixing paradigms
> This is (probably) the case.
>
> > Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have: ...
> This explanation was very, very helpful. Makes things a lot
> clearer to
> me. (And I somehow can stick to my layer-architecture that I'm
> already
> writing about in my work for university.)
>
> Thanks
> Jonny
>
> Your
>
> Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> > I think you are mixing paradigms.
> >
> > In MVC terms (Model - View - Controller) you have:
> > Model: Business logic which includes the domain model (the data
> layer
> > is simply the persistent representation of your domain model)
> > View: The pipelines defined in your sitemap that take whatever
> data is
> > fed to it and converts the data into something an end user can view
> > Controller: There are a couple of methods:
> > a) Pi pelines which call actions and then invoke other pipelines to
> > render the view based upon the results of the actions.
> > b) Pipelines that call flow. The flow then calls the appropriate
> > business logic methods and passes the data on to pipelines which
> > generate the view.
> >
> > Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have:
> > 1. Presentation tier - consists of Controller and View. Calls
> are made
> > to the business tier so whatever "client-side" business methods
> that
> > are required must be available.
> > 2. Business tier - contains the actual business methods and the
> domain
> > objects. While, in my opinion, this should always be logically
> > separate from the presentation tier it can be physically
> combined into
> > the same container as the presentation tier if that is warranted.
> > 3. Data tier - basically, your data management system.
> >
> > Note that "controller" is not a layer or a tier. Rather it is
> part of
> > the MVC design pattern.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> > Johannes Becker wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon,
> maybe
> >> someone could answer my question.
> >>
> >> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate
> >> Spring)-Petstore from Ugo.
> >> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
> >> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
> >>
> >> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
> >> Business Layer: domain model, ...
> >> Control Layer: ?????
> >> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through
> the view)
> >>
> >> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is
> there
> >> actually a control layer?
> >>
> >> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service
> layer.
> >> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Jonny
> >>
> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate <http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/> to the
> Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by JimM <me...@yahoo.com>.
Have a look at this Struts MVC discussion to "clear your head".
http://javaboutique.internet.com/tutorials/Struts/
Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net> wrote:
Hi,
> I think you are mixing paradigms
This is (probably) the case.
> Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have: ...
This explanation was very, very helpful. Makes things a lot clearer to
me. (And I somehow can stick to my layer-architecture that I'm already
writing about in my work for university.)
Thanks
Jonny
Your
Ralph Goers wrote:
> I think you are mixing paradigms.
>
> In MVC terms (Model - View - Controller) you have:
> Model: Business logic which includes the domain model (the data layer
> is simply the persistent representation of your domain model)
> View: The pipelines defined in your sitemap that take whatever data is
> fed to it and converts the data into something an end user can view
> Controller: There are a couple of methods:
> a) Pipelines which call actions and then invoke other pipelines to
> render the view based upon the results of the actions.
> b) Pipelines that call flow. The flow then calls the appropriate
> business logic methods and passes the data on to pipelines which
> generate the view.
>
> Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have:
> 1. Presentation tier - consists of Controller and View. Calls are made
> to the business tier so whatever "client-side" business methods that
> are required must be available.
> 2. Business tier - contains the actual business methods and the domain
> objects. While, in my opinion, this should always be logically
> separate from the presentation tier it can be physically combined into
> the same container as the presentation tier if that is warranted.
> 3. Data tier - basically, your data management system.
>
> Note that "controller" is not a layer or a tier. Rather it is part of
> the MVC design pattern.
>
> Ralph
>
> Johannes Becker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon, maybe
>> someone could answer my question.
>>
>> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate
>> Spring)-Petstore from Ugo.
>> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
>> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
>>
>> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
>> Business Layer: domain model, ...
>> Control Layer: ?????
>> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through the view)
>>
>> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is there
>> actually a control layer?
>>
>> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service layer.
>> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jonny
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by Johannes Becker <jo...@gmx.net>.
Hi,
> I think you are mixing paradigms
This is (probably) the case.
> Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have: ...
This explanation was very, very helpful. Makes things a lot clearer to
me. (And I somehow can stick to my layer-architecture that I'm already
writing about in my work for university.)
Thanks
Jonny
Your
Ralph Goers wrote:
> I think you are mixing paradigms.
>
> In MVC terms (Model - View - Controller) you have:
> Model: Business logic which includes the domain model (the data layer
> is simply the persistent representation of your domain model)
> View: The pipelines defined in your sitemap that take whatever data is
> fed to it and converts the data into something an end user can view
> Controller: There are a couple of methods:
> a) Pipelines which call actions and then invoke other pipelines to
> render the view based upon the results of the actions.
> b) Pipelines that call flow. The flow then calls the appropriate
> business logic methods and passes the data on to pipelines which
> generate the view.
>
> Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have:
> 1. Presentation tier - consists of Controller and View. Calls are made
> to the business tier so whatever "client-side" business methods that
> are required must be available.
> 2. Business tier - contains the actual business methods and the domain
> objects. While, in my opinion, this should always be logically
> separate from the presentation tier it can be physically combined into
> the same container as the presentation tier if that is warranted.
> 3. Data tier - basically, your data management system.
>
> Note that "controller" is not a layer or a tier. Rather it is part of
> the MVC design pattern.
>
> Ralph
>
> Johannes Becker wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon, maybe
>> someone could answer my question.
>>
>> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate
>> Spring)-Petstore from Ugo.
>> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
>> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
>>
>> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
>> Business Layer: domain model, ...
>> Control Layer: ?????
>> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through the view)
>>
>> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is there
>> actually a control layer?
>>
>> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service layer.
>> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jonny
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
I think you are mixing paradigms.
In MVC terms (Model - View - Controller) you have:
Model: Business logic which includes the domain model (the data layer is
simply the persistent representation of your domain model)
View: The pipelines defined in your sitemap that take whatever data is
fed to it and converts the data into something an end user can view
Controller: There are a couple of methods:
a) Pipelines which call actions and then invoke other pipelines to
render the view based upon the results of the actions.
b) Pipelines that call flow. The flow then calls the appropriate
business logic methods and passes the data on to pipelines which
generate the view.
Now in terms of "layers" or tiers you typically have:
1. Presentation tier - consists of Controller and View. Calls are made
to the business tier so whatever "client-side" business methods that are
required must be available.
2. Business tier - contains the actual business methods and the domain
objects. While, in my opinion, this should always be logically separate
from the presentation tier it can be physically combined into the same
container as the presentation tier if that is warranted.
3. Data tier - basically, your data management system.
Note that "controller" is not a layer or a tier. Rather it is part of
the MVC design pattern.
Ralph
Johannes Becker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon, maybe
> someone could answer my question.
>
> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate
> Spring)-Petstore from Ugo.
> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
>
> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
> Business Layer: domain model, ...
> Control Layer: ?????
> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through the view)
>
> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is there
> actually a control layer?
>
> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service layer.
> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
>
> Thanks
> Jonny
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
Re: 4-tier architecture? - Question on control layer
Posted by Jason Johnston <co...@lojjic.net>.
Johannes Becker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> this might not be the right list, but since it involves cocoon, maybe
> someone could answer my question.
>
> My application is similar to the CHS (Cocoon Hibernate Spring)-Petstore
> from Ugo.
> In university we learned about the n-tier architecture. So now I'm
> trying to assign the different technologies, etc. to the layers.
>
> Data layer: Hibernate for persistenzce, ..
> Business Layer: domain model, ...
> Control Layer: ?????
> Presentation Layer: Views, Cocoon Flow (for navigating through the view)
>
> But which technology is responsible for the contol layeer? Is there
> actually a control layer?
I consider the Control layer to consist of both the sitemap ("Front
Controller") and the flow ("Flow Controller"). Particularly the flow,
since its whole purpose is to control the interaction of the business
model and the various views.
>
> Ugo wrote in his presentation at the ApacheCon about a service layer.
> Which layer (from the ones above) does this match?
>
> Thanks
> Jonny
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@cocoon.apache.org