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Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com> on 2016/03/05 09:08:22 UTC
translating English to Japanese
Hi
My name is "Kazuki Aranami". Nickname is "kimtea".
This time, the English document of the Apache HTTP Server,
we want to translate into Japanese.
I, you have experience with translating English to Japanese.
Environment is Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Build 14279
(64-bit).
Stable environment of Windows 10 is currently in preparation.
I am planning to use the Transifex (www.transifex.com).
If the OSS, Can you provide the service for free.
I, on the use of this site, please tell me if you have any problems.
In addition, we are looking for people that will cooperate with
Japanese localization. Document to perform the translation is
the Apache HTTP server version 2.4 and the Apache HTTP
Server vulnerabilities 2.4.
Detailed technical documents will also continue to translation.
Thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kazuki Aranami
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>.
Hi Bill,
By that have introduced the "Pootle" of translation support tool,
I was relieved. Is my account, will be how?
thanks :-)
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kazuki Aranami
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kimtea
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimtea
---------------------------------------------------------------------
2016-03-16 13:00 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
> Sorry I've let thing hang for so long, but wanted to know if there are
> further questions?
>
> Feel free to reply to me personally so we can resolve any misunderstandings.
>
> I was just informed of https://translate.apache.org/ - news to me - which
> might
> or might not be of interest to this effort.
>
> Would love to help you move forward....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> 2016-03-08 10:14 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
>> > So if you are asking if it makes sense to 'host' a translation at
>> > transifex?
>>
>> Hi William,
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> Already negotiated with the operator of Transifex, I was asked to provide
>> a space of translation project. Has been certified to the OSI, have been
>> provided by the license of the OSS, software can be used free of charge.
>>
>> However, as you pointed out, the translation work of the place is,
>> the ASF without, will Transifex.
>>
>> Transifex That's why, the same environment as the pay site, and can be
>> used free of charge.
>>
>>
>> > My personal answer (worth about $0.02) is no, that all ASF translation
>> > efforts should end up merged back with the ASF project sources, if they
>> > are recognized as "the" ASF official translation.
>>
>> You have a misunderstanding. Please read all the documents.
>>
>> Transifex is, recommended service is a case in which the repository is
>> built on GitHub. Our project does not apply to this. Therefore, you can
>> use the client tools.
>>
>> On their laptop, and download the document. Then, translate the file,
>> and upload it to Transifex. Transifex, which takes you to automatically
>> merge only once a day.
>>
>> Our project is, I think we should adopt this method. If you have opinions
>> contrary to, from and peruse all the documents of Transifex, please reply.
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Kazuki Aranami
>>
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Sorry I've let thing hang for so long, but wanted to know if there are
further questions?
Feel free to reply to me personally so we can resolve any misunderstandings.
I was just informed of https://translate.apache.org/ - news to me - which
might
or might not be of interest to this effort.
Would love to help you move forward....
Cheers,
Bill
On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> 2016-03-08 10:14 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
> > So if you are asking if it makes sense to 'host' a translation at
> transifex?
>
> Hi William,
>
> Yes.
>
> Already negotiated with the operator of Transifex, I was asked to provide
> a space of translation project. Has been certified to the OSI, have been
> provided by the license of the OSS, software can be used free of charge.
>
> However, as you pointed out, the translation work of the place is,
> the ASF without, will Transifex.
>
> Transifex That's why, the same environment as the pay site, and can be
> used free of charge.
>
>
> > My personal answer (worth about $0.02) is no, that all ASF translation
> > efforts should end up merged back with the ASF project sources, if they
> > are recognized as "the" ASF official translation.
>
> You have a misunderstanding. Please read all the documents.
>
> Transifex is, recommended service is a case in which the repository is
> built on GitHub. Our project does not apply to this. Therefore, you can
> use the client tools.
>
> On their laptop, and download the document. Then, translate the file,
> and upload it to Transifex. Transifex, which takes you to automatically
> merge only once a day.
>
> Our project is, I think we should adopt this method. If you have opinions
> contrary to, from and peruse all the documents of Transifex, please reply.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Kazuki Aranami
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>.
2016-03-08 10:14 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
> So if you are asking if it makes sense to 'host' a translation at transifex?
Hi William,
Yes.
Already negotiated with the operator of Transifex, I was asked to provide
a space of translation project. Has been certified to the OSI, have been
provided by the license of the OSS, software can be used free of charge.
However, as you pointed out, the translation work of the place is,
the ASF without, will Transifex.
Transifex That's why, the same environment as the pay site, and can be
used free of charge.
> My personal answer (worth about $0.02) is no, that all ASF translation
> efforts should end up merged back with the ASF project sources, if they
> are recognized as "the" ASF official translation.
You have a misunderstanding. Please read all the documents.
Transifex is, recommended service is a case in which the repository is
built on GitHub. Our project does not apply to this. Therefore, you can
use the client tools.
On their laptop, and download the document. Then, translate the file,
and upload it to Transifex. Transifex, which takes you to automatically
merge only once a day.
Our project is, I think we should adopt this method. If you have opinions
contrary to, from and peruse all the documents of Transifex, please reply.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kazuki Aranami
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:50 PM, William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
wrote:
> On Mar 7, 2016 12:28 PM, "Kazuki Aranami" <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > 2016-03-06 13:09 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
> >
> > Hi William,
> >
> > > Please share the license terms and conditions granted
> > > by www.transifex.com for OSS, so we may evalute this?
> >
> > This Web site is a translation-only pay site. Translation dedicated
> > tool can also be used.
> > Then, if the OSS of the project, this Web site, you can use free of
> charge.
> >
> > I, is the project leader. Project members also, you can increase.
> > Is such a thing to use the Web site, the rule violation?
>
> It will entirely depend on the terms and conditions of the translation
> tool (be it a program, or web service, etc).
>
> If the license terms of the tool are compatible with the Apache License,
> use of such tools is encouraged as long as the quality of the translation
> is up to par (or the results are significantly corrected.)
>
> If the terms are not compatible (additional restrictions, for example),
> then the specific tool cannot be used.
>
> That's why I asked for a pointer to the license that service applies to
> the translated output of the tool you wish to use.
>
I researched the site, and failed to locate what terms and conditions
apply to any 'generated' results, but it generated more questions :)
The basic premise of non-ASF hosted content hosted over on
https://www.transifex.com/product/ doesn't appear to fit our model.
Our localized documentation is not only provided at the canonical
location http://httpd.apache.org/docs/ but is also provided in all of
the source releases we ship and installed to the user for their use.
We have gone to great lengths to ensure we support parallel language
content on the site.
Even though our website is the 'most current' and correct copy of
the docs, that local copy of the documentation content is still shared
and available to the user of the software. And our content build system
that I mentioned earlier helps us track how far 'out of date' a given page's
content is for any given translation.
So if you are asking if it makes sense to 'host' a translation at transifex?
My personal answer (worth about $0.02) is no, that all ASF translation
efforts should end up merged back with the ASF project sources, if they
are recognized as "the" ASF official translation.
The terms of use was very specific, and said nothing about using the
results of any content generated by transifex. That information must
be buried somewhere on their site.
But if you are asking 'is it possible' - as long as any resource that
uses ASF sources (including the docs) cannot be construed to be
an 'official' distribution, then it is possible for any entity to publish
a derivative of the Apache HTTP Server documentation. And that
would include an translated work.
If we can find a way to use transifex services as a "development
tool" that serves translators and reviewers better than the mailing
list, bug tracking system and subversion repository alone, then
we should consider doing so. If a given translation team prefers
using google docs, for example, that should also be considered.
The end result of any ASF-recognized should still be patches to
the official subversion repository and hosted for public consumption
on http://{projectname}.apache.org/docs/. How that happens is
all negotiable.
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Mar 7, 2016 12:28 PM, "Kazuki Aranami" <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2016-03-06 13:09 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
>
> Hi William,
>
> > Please share the license terms and conditions granted
> > by www.transifex.com for OSS, so we may evalute this?
>
> This Web site is a translation-only pay site. Translation dedicated
> tool can also be used.
> Then, if the OSS of the project, this Web site, you can use free of
charge.
>
> I, is the project leader. Project members also, you can increase.
> Is such a thing to use the Web site, the rule violation?
It will entirely depend on the terms and conditions of the translation tool
(be it a program, or web service, etc).
If the license terms of the tool are compatible with the Apache License,
use of such tools is encouraged as long as the quality of the translation
is up to par (or the results are significantly corrected.)
If the terms are not compatible (additional restrictions, for example),
then the specific tool cannot be used.
That's why I asked for a pointer to the license that service applies to the
translated output of the tool you wish to use.
Cheers,
Bill
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>.
2016-03-06 13:09 GMT+09:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
Hi William,
> Please do not post patches which are purely automatic translations
Your pointed out, I think that correct.
The actual translation work, it is prohibited to use the machine translation.
> Please share the license terms and conditions granted
> by www.transifex.com for OSS, so we may evalute this?
This Web site is a translation-only pay site. Translation dedicated
tool can also be used.
Then, if the OSS of the project, this Web site, you can use free of charge.
I, is the project leader. Project members also, you can increase.
Is such a thing to use the Web site, the rule violation?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Kazuki Aranami
Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
-----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Mar 7, 2016 12:50 PM, "Luca Toscano" <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi William,
>
> 2016-03-06 5:09 GMT+01:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
>>
>>
>> Welcome and TIA (thanks, in advance).
>
>
> Welcome!
>
>>
>> However the contributors/translators must personally review
>> all of the text, and turn the automated translation into "human
>> readable" text, accurately.
>
>
> I have a more generic question about how to apply doc translation patched
to the httpd project. Newcomers (like it was for me not long ago) needs to
wait a bit of time to get their patches code reviewed and committed (if the
quality meets the bar); I like this workflow a lot because it allows people
to learn a lot without breaking anything, but the downside is that those
patches might loose traction and get queued in the big list in bugzilla for
long time. This issue seems to be more relevant when people sending patches
related to translations do not find a committer that can validate the
language grammar and push the change, like it has happened recently. What
is your recommendation about the workflow to follow to keep the momentum
and attract more people to the httpd doc project?
Good question.
While we can tweak the process and perhaps rely more on github forks and
pull requests, at the end of the day the solution is to increase the number
of docs committers willing to review the reviews and commit the changes.
The number of volunteer hours will always be a gating factor. All we can
do is pay attention to careful contributors and extend commit invitations
as appropriate, and ask those newly minted committers to also help with the
process of incorporating other translations.
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by Luca Toscano <to...@gmail.com>.
Hi William,
2016-03-06 5:09 GMT+01:00 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>:
>
> Welcome and TIA (thanks, in advance).
>
Welcome!
> However the contributors/translators must personally review
> all of the text, and turn the automated translation into "human
> readable" text, accurately.
>
I have a more generic question about how to apply doc translation patched
to the httpd project. Newcomers (like it was for me not long ago) needs to
wait a bit of time to get their patches code reviewed and committed (if the
quality meets the bar); I like this workflow a lot because it allows people
to learn a lot without breaking anything, but the downside is that those
patches might loose traction and get queued in the big list in bugzilla for
long time. This issue seems to be more relevant when people sending patches
related to translations do not find a committer that can validate the
language grammar and push the change, like it has happened recently. What
is your recommendation about the workflow to follow to keep the momentum
and attract more people to the httpd doc project?
Thanks!
Luca
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 2:08 AM, Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi
>
> My name is "Kazuki Aranami". Nickname is "kimtea".
> This time, the English document of the Apache HTTP Server,
> we want to translate into Japanese.
>
> I, you have experience with translating English to Japanese.
> Environment is Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Build 14279
> (64-bit).
>
> Stable environment of Windows 10 is currently in preparation.
>
> I am planning to use the Transifex (www.transifex.com).
> If the OSS, Can you provide the service for free.
> I, on the use of this site, please tell me if you have any problems.
>
> In addition, we are looking for people that will cooperate with
> Japanese localization. Document to perform the translation is
> the Apache HTTP server version 2.4 and the Apache HTTP
> Server vulnerabilities 2.4.
>
> Detailed technical documents will also continue to translation.
>
> Thank you.
>
Welcome and TIA (thanks, in advance).
It should not matter your development environment, you can get
most components of Apache HTTP Server running under most of
the modern platforms. The document build schema is a generic
java environment. You should have few issues.
You will want to check out the build environment underneath your
docs checkout. E.g.
cd c:\parentdirectory
svn co http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/httpd/branches/2.4.x
cd docs/manual
svn co http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/docs-build/trunk/ build
Now you can cd into 2.4.x\docs\manual\build and regenerate all
of the source .xml content, and review the generated .html files.
Enabling the manual / multi-language extra configuration will let
you use your local httpd installation to see the manual in any
selected language/locale.
The documents that need to be translated are the .xml sources.
All of the .html content is generated from these .xml files. If
you would be so kind and translate the "development" version
of these docs, e.g.
svn co http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/httpd/trunk
then we can 'back-port' the changes into the 2.4 branch that
we currently distribute. Nobody wants to discover that the
"next release" has no translation.
We will not accept verbatim transliterated documents. You may
use automated tools as a starting point, if the licensing of the
automatically generated work is acceptable. Please share the
license terms and conditions granted by www.transifex.com for
OSS, so we may evalute this?
However the contributors/translators must personally review
all of the text, and turn the automated translation into "human
readable" text, accurately.
私の日本語能力が不十分です
私は、あなたはあなたの努力に役立つことはできますか
I share this to point out how poor automated translation is, but
that it can serve as a good "jump start". Please do not post
patches which are purely automatic translations and have not
been reviewed by a competent reader. Perhaps others are
also interested in reviewing and providing feedback for these
translations?
Again, thank you for your interest.
Cheers,
Bill
Re: translating English to Japanese
Posted by Luis Gil <lj...@googlemail.com>.
Hello Kimtea and Welcome!
El sáb., 5 de marzo de 2016 9:08, Kazuki Aranami <ka...@gmail.com>
escribió:
> Hi
>
> My name is "Kazuki Aranami". Nickname is "kimtea".
> This time, the English document of the Apache HTTP Server,
> we want to translate into Japanese.
>
> I, you have experience with translating English to Japanese.
> Environment is Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview Build 14279
> (64-bit).
>
> Stable environment of Windows 10 is currently in preparation.
>
>
> I am planning to use the Transifex (www.transifex.com).
> If the OSS, Can you provide the service for free.
> I, on the use of this site, please tell me if you have any problems.
>
> In addition, we are looking for people that will cooperate with
> Japanese localization. Document to perform the translation is
> the Apache HTTP server version 2.4 and the Apache HTTP
> Server vulnerabilities 2.4.
>
> Detailed technical documents will also continue to translation.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Kazuki Aranami
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kimtea
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: docs-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: docs-help@httpd.apache.org
>
> --
Luis J.G