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Posted to dev@apisix.apache.org by Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> on 2021/01/21 07:55:25 UTC
[DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
hello, devs,
APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese company
and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining two
documents at the same time will bring additional work to contributors.
So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
documents.
What do you think?
Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>.
Agree, and apisix-dashboard now only has documentation in English. But we
should also make it more clear and easy to understand.
Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://www.shaoyaoju.org/>
Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午3:55写道：
> hello, devs,
> APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese company
> and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
>
> Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining two
> documents at the same time will bring additional work to contributors.
>
> So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> documents.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>.
Hi,
Could we make sure the English docs are correct, reliable, up-to-date, and
easy to learn first? For other languages, our
community's contributors could help to maintain them.
BTW, our doc site is in the process to build, once it's done, our docs will
be more clear to read and search.
Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
tison <wa...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月22日周五 下午12:00写道：
> [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/ &
> https://sphinx-intl.readthedocs.io/en/master/
> [2] https://linux.cn/lctt/
> [3]
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/newl10nn/gong-zuo-zhi-nan-l10n--1/yi-zhong-wen-hua-gong-zuo-liu-cheng
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/ &
https://sphinx-intl.readthedocs.io/en/master/
[2] https://linux.cn/lctt/
[3]
https://sites.google.com/site/newl10nn/gong-zuo-zhi-nan-l10n--1/yi-zhong-wen-hua-gong-zuo-liu-cheng
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by tison <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
Here is my two coins.
1. Chinese document, considering the overhead of maintenance, is not
necessary for
a rapid growing community. This part my opinion is the same as Sheng's
comments.
2. However, international documentation, not only the Chinese one, is a
good community
resource to have. Modern translation methods are far more beyond Google
translation but
workflows based on gettext and other tools[1]. Moreover, there are
communities passion to
translate cutting-edge knowledge into their homeland language such as
LCTT[2] and L10N[3].
The benefits of new methods and community partner are as below.
1). Modern toolchain helps to resolve the problem document out of sync.
Most of workflows
have their way to choose a main version(e.g., the English version) and mark
derived version
as out of date if the corresponding content in main version changed.
2). Modern toolchain & workflow looses the burden to locate a page to be
translated and do it
in one pass, which helps when community throughput is temporarily lack.
3). We the community doesn't have to maintain the documentation indeed in
another view. Building
ecosystem and gaining helps with those who passion for it is a good
alternation. Of course then we
mark the documentation contributed by the team for their credit and note it
not produced by
APISIX officially.
Best,
tison.
wei jin <kv...@apache.org> 于2021年1月22日周五 上午11:27写道：
> Agree， only keep english docs.
>
> Wo Soyoung <wo...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月22日周五 上午10:53写道：
>
> > Hi Sheng,
> >
> > Thanks again for the experience sharing! Yes I agree that translators
> would
> > leave the community quicker code contributors.
> >
> > I rethink my opinions a bit. If we would discard Chinese doc sooner or
> > later, it's better to discard them now, so we could pay less attention to
> > it. I do care too much about the sunk cost before.
> >
> > Changed to agree.
> >
> > Best,
> > Shuyang
> >
> > Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:53写道：
> >
> > > Hi Shuyang
> > >
> > > Please don't get me wrong.
> > > Of course, multi-language documents are useful. It is friendly to
> Chinese
> > > local new contributors, especially open source is new to them.
> > > And I also want to point out, the translator(also contributor for sure)
> > > usually leave the community quicker than code contributors(This is not
> > > discrimination). The reason is, once the first version of translation
> > > completed, maintenance is very boring :P
> > > I was the official Chinese documentation provider for OpenTracing(CNCF
> > > project), but I left in 2 months after finishing it.
> > >
> > > Again, this is only my personal experience. If the committer
> > team(including
> > > PMC) doesn't want to work on it, I am supporting them.
> > >
> > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > >
> > >
> > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:45写道：
> > >
> > > > Hi Sheng,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your experience sharing! That indeed makes sense to me,
> > > that
> > > > a survey in the community might not give us effective information,
> > since
> > > > "something is always better than nothing". And indeed the
> functionality
> > > and
> > > > community are way more important than localized documentation.
> > > >
> > > > But the less importance doesn't mean it's useless. I just think it is
> > not
> > > > the time for us to abandon Chinese docs, since it seems still not a
> > > burden
> > > > to the community. If I make it right, 3 out of ~60 pages of doc are
> > only
> > > in
> > > > English, 1 out of 15 doc related issues are about Chinese doc. I
> think
> > > > that's acceptable for the community to fix. So unless someone told me
> > > s/he
> > > > is tired of fix Chinese doc issues (to make it so little), I'll still
> > > hold
> > > > my point. (otherwise I'll praise her/him as a hero and directly +1 :)
> > > >
> > > > And for what could we benefit from that, I could find some first-time
> > > > contributors trying to use a Chinese version doc as their first PR.
> > > What's
> > > > more, although the only requirement for documentation is clear,
> that's
> > > > enough, people are still trying to create Chinese documentation of
> k8s,
> > > > envoy and all those common tools. We have to say convenience could
> make
> > > > people have easier access to the tool and the community. Localization
> > is
> > > > not necessary, but it's still important, and beneficial.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Shuyang
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:30写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > > > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > > > >
> > > > > I love it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <
> wu.sheng.841108@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which
> > > used
> > > > to
> > > > > > have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> > > > > > At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is
> hard
> > > to
> > > > > > understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason
> will
> > > turn
> > > > > > out.
> > > > > > But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it,
> and
> > > > Google
> > > > > > translation is powerful enough for understanding the document.
> (the
> > > > same
> > > > > > story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining
> dual
> > > > > > languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users,
> > because,
> > > in
> > > > > > reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful,
> > > fixing
> > > > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public
> > > > channel
> > > > > > too.
> > > > > > > welcome everyone join us.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from
> > our
> > > > > users
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > not just ourselves.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are
> > from
> > > > > > China,
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides,
> > most
> > > of
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming
> > > less),
> > > > it
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both
> > > > > languages.
> > > > > > > If
> > > > > > > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > > > > > > good-first-issue
> > > > > > > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at
> > first,
> > > we
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it
> > > annoying
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > to fix it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > Shuyang
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > agree this, my +1
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <
> wenming@apache.org
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > > > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by
> > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > company
> > > > > > > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> > > > > > maintained.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors,
> > > > > maintaining
> > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > > > > > > contributors.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and
> discard
> > > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > > > documents.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by wei jin <kv...@apache.org>.
Agree， only keep english docs.
Wo Soyoung <wo...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月22日周五 上午10:53写道：
> Hi Sheng,
>
> Thanks again for the experience sharing! Yes I agree that translators would
> leave the community quicker code contributors.
>
> I rethink my opinions a bit. If we would discard Chinese doc sooner or
> later, it's better to discard them now, so we could pay less attention to
> it. I do care too much about the sunk cost before.
>
> Changed to agree.
>
> Best,
> Shuyang
>
> Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:53写道：
>
> > Hi Shuyang
> >
> > Please don't get me wrong.
> > Of course, multi-language documents are useful. It is friendly to Chinese
> > local new contributors, especially open source is new to them.
> > And I also want to point out, the translator(also contributor for sure)
> > usually leave the community quicker than code contributors(This is not
> > discrimination). The reason is, once the first version of translation
> > completed, maintenance is very boring :P
> > I was the official Chinese documentation provider for OpenTracing(CNCF
> > project), but I left in 2 months after finishing it.
> >
> > Again, this is only my personal experience. If the committer
> team(including
> > PMC) doesn't want to work on it, I am supporting them.
> >
> > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > Twitter, wusheng1108
> >
> >
> > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:45写道：
> >
> > > Hi Sheng,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your experience sharing! That indeed makes sense to me,
> > that
> > > a survey in the community might not give us effective information,
> since
> > > "something is always better than nothing". And indeed the functionality
> > and
> > > community are way more important than localized documentation.
> > >
> > > But the less importance doesn't mean it's useless. I just think it is
> not
> > > the time for us to abandon Chinese docs, since it seems still not a
> > burden
> > > to the community. If I make it right, 3 out of ~60 pages of doc are
> only
> > in
> > > English, 1 out of 15 doc related issues are about Chinese doc. I think
> > > that's acceptable for the community to fix. So unless someone told me
> > s/he
> > > is tired of fix Chinese doc issues (to make it so little), I'll still
> > hold
> > > my point. (otherwise I'll praise her/him as a hero and directly +1 :)
> > >
> > > And for what could we benefit from that, I could find some first-time
> > > contributors trying to use a Chinese version doc as their first PR.
> > What's
> > > more, although the only requirement for documentation is clear, that's
> > > enough, people are still trying to create Chinese documentation of k8s,
> > > envoy and all those common tools. We have to say convenience could make
> > > people have easier access to the tool and the community. Localization
> is
> > > not necessary, but it's still important, and beneficial.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Shuyang
> > >
> > >
> > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:30写道：
> > >
> > > > > people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > > >
> > > > I love it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which
> > used
> > > to
> > > > > have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> > > > > At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard
> > to
> > > > > understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will
> > turn
> > > > > out.
> > > > > But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and
> > > Google
> > > > > translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the
> > > same
> > > > > story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
> > > > >
> > > > > If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
> > > > > languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users,
> because,
> > in
> > > > > reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful,
> > fixing
> > > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public
> > > channel
> > > > > too.
> > > > > > welcome everyone join us.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from
> our
> > > > users
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > not just ourselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are
> from
> > > > > China,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides,
> most
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming
> > less),
> > > it
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both
> > > > languages.
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > > > > > good-first-issue
> > > > > > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at
> first,
> > we
> > > > > could
> > > > > > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it
> > annoying
> > > > > enough
> > > > > > > to fix it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Shuyang
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > agree this, my +1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <wenming@apache.org
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by
> > > Chinese
> > > > > > > company
> > > > > > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> > > > > maintained.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors,
> > > > maintaining
> > > > > > two
> > > > > > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > > > > > contributors.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard
> > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > > documents.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Wo Soyoung <wo...@gmail.com>.
Hi Sheng,
Thanks again for the experience sharing! Yes I agree that translators would
leave the community quicker code contributors.
I rethink my opinions a bit. If we would discard Chinese doc sooner or
later, it's better to discard them now, so we could pay less attention to
it. I do care too much about the sunk cost before.
Changed to agree.
Best,
Shuyang
Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:53写道：
> Hi Shuyang
>
> Please don't get me wrong.
> Of course, multi-language documents are useful. It is friendly to Chinese
> local new contributors, especially open source is new to them.
> And I also want to point out, the translator(also contributor for sure)
> usually leave the community quicker than code contributors(This is not
> discrimination). The reason is, once the first version of translation
> completed, maintenance is very boring :P
> I was the official Chinese documentation provider for OpenTracing(CNCF
> project), but I left in 2 months after finishing it.
>
> Again, this is only my personal experience. If the committer team(including
> PMC) doesn't want to work on it, I am supporting them.
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
>
> Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:45写道：
>
> > Hi Sheng,
> >
> > Thank you for your experience sharing! That indeed makes sense to me,
> that
> > a survey in the community might not give us effective information, since
> > "something is always better than nothing". And indeed the functionality
> and
> > community are way more important than localized documentation.
> >
> > But the less importance doesn't mean it's useless. I just think it is not
> > the time for us to abandon Chinese docs, since it seems still not a
> burden
> > to the community. If I make it right, 3 out of ~60 pages of doc are only
> in
> > English, 1 out of 15 doc related issues are about Chinese doc. I think
> > that's acceptable for the community to fix. So unless someone told me
> s/he
> > is tired of fix Chinese doc issues (to make it so little), I'll still
> hold
> > my point. (otherwise I'll praise her/him as a hero and directly +1 :)
> >
> > And for what could we benefit from that, I could find some first-time
> > contributors trying to use a Chinese version doc as their first PR.
> What's
> > more, although the only requirement for documentation is clear, that's
> > enough, people are still trying to create Chinese documentation of k8s,
> > envoy and all those common tools. We have to say convenience could make
> > people have easier access to the tool and the community. Localization is
> > not necessary, but it's still important, and beneficial.
> >
> > Best,
> > Shuyang
> >
> >
> > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:30写道：
> >
> > > > people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > >
> > > I love it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all
> > > >
> > > > I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which
> used
> > to
> > > > have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> > > > At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard
> to
> > > > understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will
> turn
> > > > out.
> > > > But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and
> > Google
> > > > translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the
> > same
> > > > story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
> > > >
> > > > If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
> > > > languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users, because,
> in
> > > > reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful,
> fixing
> > > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > > >
> > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> > > >
> > > > > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public
> > channel
> > > > too.
> > > > > welcome everyone join us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our
> > > users
> > > > > but
> > > > > > not just ourselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from
> > > > China,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most
> of
> > > our
> > > > > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming
> less),
> > it
> > > > > would
> > > > > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both
> > > languages.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > > > > good-first-issue
> > > > > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first,
> we
> > > > could
> > > > > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it
> annoying
> > > > enough
> > > > > > to fix it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > Shuyang
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > agree this, my +1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by
> > Chinese
> > > > > > company
> > > > > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> > > > maintained.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors,
> > > maintaining
> > > > > two
> > > > > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > > > > contributors.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard
> > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > documents.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *MembPhis*
> > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Hi Shuyang
Please don't get me wrong.
Of course, multi-language documents are useful. It is friendly to Chinese
local new contributors, especially open source is new to them.
And I also want to point out, the translator(also contributor for sure)
usually leave the community quicker than code contributors(This is not
discrimination). The reason is, once the first version of translation
completed, maintenance is very boring :P
I was the official Chinese documentation provider for OpenTracing(CNCF
project), but I left in 2 months after finishing it.
Again, this is only my personal experience. If the committer team(including
PMC) doesn't want to work on it, I am supporting them.
Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108
Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午9:45写道：
> Hi Sheng,
>
> Thank you for your experience sharing! That indeed makes sense to me, that
> a survey in the community might not give us effective information, since
> "something is always better than nothing". And indeed the functionality and
> community are way more important than localized documentation.
>
> But the less importance doesn't mean it's useless. I just think it is not
> the time for us to abandon Chinese docs, since it seems still not a burden
> to the community. If I make it right, 3 out of ~60 pages of doc are only in
> English, 1 out of 15 doc related issues are about Chinese doc. I think
> that's acceptable for the community to fix. So unless someone told me s/he
> is tired of fix Chinese doc issues (to make it so little), I'll still hold
> my point. (otherwise I'll praise her/him as a hero and directly +1 :)
>
> And for what could we benefit from that, I could find some first-time
> contributors trying to use a Chinese version doc as their first PR. What's
> more, although the only requirement for documentation is clear, that's
> enough, people are still trying to create Chinese documentation of k8s,
> envoy and all those common tools. We have to say convenience could make
> people have easier access to the tool and the community. Localization is
> not necessary, but it's still important, and beneficial.
>
> Best,
> Shuyang
>
>
> YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:30写道：
>
> > > people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> >
> > I love it.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all
> > >
> > > I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which used
> to
> > > have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> > > At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard to
> > > understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will turn
> > > out.
> > > But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and
> Google
> > > translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the
> same
> > > story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
> > >
> > > If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
> > > languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users, because, in
> > > reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> > >
> > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > >
> > >
> > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> > >
> > > > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public
> channel
> > > too.
> > > > welcome everyone join us.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> > > >
> > > > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our
> > users
> > > > but
> > > > > not just ourselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from
> > > China,
> > > > I
> > > > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of
> > our
> > > > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less),
> it
> > > > would
> > > > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both
> > languages.
> > > > If
> > > > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > > > good-first-issue
> > > > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we
> > > could
> > > > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying
> > > enough
> > > > > to fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Shuyang
> > > > >
> > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > agree this, my +1
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by
> Chinese
> > > > > company
> > > > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> > > maintained.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors,
> > maintaining
> > > > two
> > > > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > > > contributors.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard
> > Chinese
> > > > > > > documents.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *MembPhis*
> > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org>.
Hi Sheng,
Thank you for your experience sharing! That indeed makes sense to me, that
a survey in the community might not give us effective information, since
"something is always better than nothing". And indeed the functionality and
community are way more important than localized documentation.
But the less importance doesn't mean it's useless. I just think it is not
the time for us to abandon Chinese docs, since it seems still not a burden
to the community. If I make it right, 3 out of ~60 pages of doc are only in
English, 1 out of 15 doc related issues are about Chinese doc. I think
that's acceptable for the community to fix. So unless someone told me s/he
is tired of fix Chinese doc issues (to make it so little), I'll still hold
my point. (otherwise I'll praise her/him as a hero and directly +1 :)
And for what could we benefit from that, I could find some first-time
contributors trying to use a Chinese version doc as their first PR. What's
more, although the only requirement for documentation is clear, that's
enough, people are still trying to create Chinese documentation of k8s,
envoy and all those common tools. We have to say convenience could make
people have easier access to the tool and the community. Localization is
not necessary, but it's still important, and beneficial.
Best,
Shuyang
YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:30写道：
> > people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
>
> I love it.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which used to
> > have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> > At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard to
> > understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will turn
> > out.
> > But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and Google
> > translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the same
> > story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
> >
> > If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
> > languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users, because, in
> > reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> > their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
> >
> > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > Twitter, wusheng1108
> >
> >
> > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> >
> > > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public channel
> > too.
> > > welcome everyone join us.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > >
> > >
> > > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> > >
> > > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our
> users
> > > but
> > > > not just ourselves.
> > > >
> > > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from
> > China,
> > > I
> > > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of
> our
> > > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less), it
> > > would
> > > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both
> languages.
> > > If
> > > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > > good-first-issue
> > > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we
> > could
> > > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying
> > enough
> > > > to fix it.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Shuyang
> > > >
> > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > > >
> > > > > agree this, my +1
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese
> > > > company
> > > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> > maintained.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors,
> maintaining
> > > two
> > > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > > contributors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard
> Chinese
> > > > > > documents.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *MembPhis*
> My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>.
> people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
I love it.
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 5:19 PM Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which used to
> have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
> At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard to
> understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will turn
> out.
> But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and Google
> translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the same
> story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
>
> If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
> languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users, because, in
> reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
> their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
>
> Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
>
> > yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public channel
> too.
> > welcome everyone join us.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
> >
> > Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> >
> > > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our users
> > but
> > > not just ourselves.
> > >
> > > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from
> China,
> > I
> > > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of our
> > > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less), it
> > would
> > > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both languages.
> > If
> > > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> > good-first-issue
> > > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we
> could
> > > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying
> enough
> > > to fix it.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Shuyang
> > >
> > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> > >
> > > > agree this, my +1
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > hello, devs,
> > > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese
> > > company
> > > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are
> maintained.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining
> > two
> > > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> > contributors.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> > > > > documents.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you think?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
*MembPhis*
My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Sheng Wu <wu...@gmail.com>.
Hi all
I want to share a little experience from Apache SkyWalking, which used to
have dual language documentation, but not anymore for 2 years.
At first, some users may complain about this, and saying it is hard to
understand. If you run a survey to the community, this reason will turn out.
But with time, you will notice, people are getting used to it, and Google
translation is powerful enough for understanding the document. (the same
story, you said acceptable for not-Chinese-speaker).
If the APISIX community wants to lower the load of maintaining dual
languages, don't need to have a concern about losing users, because, in
reality, people choose a project because it is powerful, useful, fixing
their real issues, rather than having Chinese documentations.
Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108
Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:05写道：
> yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public channel too.
> welcome everyone join us.
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
>
> Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
>
> > I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our users
> but
> > not just ourselves.
> >
> > Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from China,
> I
> > think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of our
> > contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less), it
> would
> > not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both languages.
> If
> > contributors are not from China, making the translation a
> good-first-issue
> > is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we could
> > use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying enough
> > to fix it.
> >
> > Best,
> > Shuyang
> >
> > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> >
> > > agree this, my +1
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > hello, devs,
> > > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese
> > company
> > > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
> > > >
> > > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining
> two
> > > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to
> contributors.
> > > >
> > > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> > > > documents.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *MembPhis*
> > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>.
yes, this is the discuss thread, and mailinglist is the public channel too.
welcome everyone join us.
Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing
Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午5:02写道：
> I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our users but
> not just ourselves.
>
> Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from China, I
> think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of our
> contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less), it would
> not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both languages. If
> contributors are not from China, making the translation a good-first-issue
> is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we could
> use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying enough
> to fix it.
>
> Best,
> Shuyang
>
> YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
>
> > agree this, my +1
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > hello, devs,
> > > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese
> company
> > > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
> > >
> > > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining two
> > > documents at the same time will bring additional work to contributors.
> > >
> > > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> > > documents.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *MembPhis*
> > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by Shuyang Wu <sh...@apache.org>.
I'm not so sure about this, maybe we need some feedback from our users but
not just ourselves.
Since the main part of our users (as found in PoweredBy) are from China, I
think people could benefit some from Chinese docs. Besides, most of our
contributors are from China (although the ratio is becoming less), it would
not be hard for Chinese contributors to maintain doc in both languages. If
contributors are not from China, making the translation a good-first-issue
is also acceptable (as what we're doing right now). Or at first, we could
use the machine-translated version until someone finds it annoying enough
to fix it.
Best,
Shuyang
YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年1月21日周四 下午4:04写道：
> agree this, my +1
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > hello, devs,
> > APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese company
> > and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
> >
> > Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining two
> > documents at the same time will bring additional work to contributors.
> >
> > So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> > documents.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *MembPhis*
> My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Only maintain English documents
Posted by YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>.
agree this, my +1
On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 3:55 PM Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> wrote:
> hello, devs,
> APISIX was originally donated to the Apache Foundation by Chinese company
> and developers, so both Chinese and English documents are maintained.
>
> Now with the rapid growth of features and contributors, maintaining two
> documents at the same time will bring additional work to contributors.
>
> So I propose to maintain only English documents and discard Chinese
> documents.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
--
*MembPhis*
My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix