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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com> on 2019/02/04 23:48:54 UTC
Number of tomcat downloads
Hi,
I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat downloads
sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
" Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even a 1%
production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by now.
Anyone? Asking for a friend ;-)
regards
Leon
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Igal,
On 2/5/19 14:59, Igal Sapir wrote:
> Chris,
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:32 AM Christopher Schultz <
> chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Igal,
>>
>> On 2/4/19 23:52, Igal Sapir wrote:
>>> <snip/> On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new
>>> site?
>>
>> Hard pass, thank you very much.
>>
>
> I didn't necessarily mean that it has to be GA, even though I
> mentioned it by name as it's the most popular tool out there - it
> was more like saying "Xerox" instead of "Copier", or "Kleenex"
> instead of "Tissue".
I've gotten great mileage out of log-file analyzers. No need for
javascript in pages :)
> It can be any tool, including the one you suggested in the other
> email, but anyway, as Mark pointed out this decision might be made
> at a higher level.
In general, PMCs are left to make their own decisions. It's possible
that ASF will say "absolutely no GA" but they would never say "you
must use GA". My strong position for Tomcat PMC would be "absolutely
no GA", regardless of what ASF says.
- -chris
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Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Igal Sapir <ig...@lucee.org>.
Chris,
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:32 AM Christopher Schultz <
chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Igal,
>
> On 2/4/19 23:52, Igal Sapir wrote:
> > <snip/>
> > On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new site?
>
> Hard pass, thank you very much.
>
I didn't necessarily mean that it has to be GA, even though I mentioned it
by name as it's the most popular tool out there - it was more like saying
"Xerox" instead of "Copier", or "Kleenex" instead of "Tissue".
It can be any tool, including the one you suggested in the other email, but
anyway, as Mark pointed out this decision might be made at a higher level.
Best,
Igal
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Hash: SHA256
Igal,
On 2/4/19 23:52, Igal Sapir wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 3:58 PM Leon Rosenberg
> <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat
>> downloads sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the
>> cat slides. I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
>>
>> " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming
>> even a 1% production adoption rate results in more than 100000
>> installations. " But this is from 2014 and I assume there should
>> be a better number by now.
>>
>
> I don't think that it is tracked ATM, unless INFRA aggregates the
> web server logs and records the metrics somewhere.
>
> On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new site?
Hard pass, thank you very much.
- -chris
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Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Mark,
On 2/5/19 04:46, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 05/02/2019 04:52, Igal Sapir wrote:
>> On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new site?
>> Obviously it will only give us information moving forward, but it
>> can be interesting.
>
> No. There are some internal discussions ongoing about the use of
> GA. We should wait for those to conclude before considering adding
> it to our site.
I think we should soundly reject the use of GA for a number of reasons.
One of those reasons is that, with very little effort, we can get the
data we want without violating anyone's privacy by running our own
analytics: https://matomo.org/
- -chris
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Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 05/02/2019 04:52, Igal Sapir wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 3:58 PM Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat downloads
>> sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
>> I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
>>
>> " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even a 1%
>> production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
>> But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by now.
Those figures are VERY out of date.
> I don't think that it is tracked ATM, unless INFRA aggregates the web
> server logs and records the metrics somewhere.
We have our own web server logs but since most downloads will be via the
mirror network we can't track those.
We can track requests for the download page. They are currently running
at ~1,800,000 requests per month for the download pages. I can see that
archive.apache.org saw ~2,000,000 requests to download a Tomcat
distribution in the last month. I suspect a lot of folks have
(incorrectly) pointed their build tools at archive.a.o rather than the
mirror network.
We can track downloads via Maven Central. They are currently running at:
- 2,000,000 to 2,500,000 per month for embedded
- 20,000 to 25,000 per month for the standard binary distribution
- 120,000 to 140,000 per month for the standard JARs
We have no figures for downloads via mechanisms such as Linux package
managers, Docker, etc.
Make of those figures what you will.
> On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new site? Obviously it
> will only give us information moving forward, but it can be interesting.
No. There are some internal discussions ongoing about the use of GA. We
should wait for those to conclude before considering adding it to our site.
Mark
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Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Igal Sapir <ig...@lucee.org>.
On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 3:58 PM Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat downloads
> sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
> I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
>
> " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even a 1%
> production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
> But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by now.
>
I don't think that it is tracked ATM, unless INFRA aggregates the web
server logs and records the metrics somewhere.
On that note, should we add Google Analytics to the new site? Obviously it
will only give us information moving forward, but it can be interesting.
>
> Anyone? Asking for a friend ;-)
>
LOL 😎
Best,
Igal
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Igal Sapir <ig...@lucee.org>.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 6:35 AM Christopher Schultz <
chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Leon,
>
> On 2/5/19 05:35, Leon Rosenberg wrote:
> > A little background on the original question: we have some legal
> > issues with a client, among other things, he claims that our code
> > isn't documented well, because he run checkstyle on it, and it
> > showed 6000 errors. My argumentation was that default checkstyle
> > settings aren't telling anything about code quality (unless agreed
> > upon upfront). I run checkstyle with default settings on tomcat
> > code base and it showed 85.412 errors using sun code checks (yes,
> > those from 1996). Most of them are like:
> >
> > AbstractFramedStreamSourceChannel<AjpClientChannel,AbstractAjpClientSt
> reamSourceChannel,AbstractAjpClientStreamSinkChannel>
> >
> >
> this line produces multiple warnings, for example ',' not followed by a
> > whitespace and such.
> >
> > if(attachments == null) - if not followed by a whitespace etc.
> >
> > Hence if such a mature product like tomcat (with 10.000.000
> > installations) contains 85412 errors and is considered well
> > documented, he is using the wrong tool for the task.
>
> LOL try running checkstyle or SpotBugs against WebLogic and see what
> happens.
>
Yep. That's quite a ridiculous claim by that client.
When it comes to FOSS, though, I always remind complaining clients that
they can get their money back ;)
Best,
Igal
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Hash: SHA256
Leon,
On 2/5/19 05:35, Leon Rosenberg wrote:
> A little background on the original question: we have some legal
> issues with a client, among other things, he claims that our code
> isn't documented well, because he run checkstyle on it, and it
> showed 6000 errors. My argumentation was that default checkstyle
> settings aren't telling anything about code quality (unless agreed
> upon upfront). I run checkstyle with default settings on tomcat
> code base and it showed 85.412 errors using sun code checks (yes,
> those from 1996). Most of them are like:
>
> AbstractFramedStreamSourceChannel<AjpClientChannel,AbstractAjpClientSt
reamSourceChannel,AbstractAjpClientStreamSinkChannel>
>
>
this line produces multiple warnings, for example ',' not followed by a
> whitespace and such.
>
> if(attachments == null) - if not followed by a whitespace etc.
>
> Hence if such a mature product like tomcat (with 10.000.000
> installations) contains 85412 errors and is considered well
> documented, he is using the wrong tool for the task.
LOL try running checkstyle or SpotBugs against WebLogic and see what
happens.
- -chris
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Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com>.
A little background on the original question: we have some legal issues
with a client, among other things, he claims that our code isn't documented
well, because he run checkstyle on it, and it showed 6000 errors. My
argumentation was that default checkstyle settings aren't telling anything
about code quality (unless agreed upon upfront). I run checkstyle with
default settings on tomcat code base and it showed 85.412 errors using sun
code checks (yes, those from 1996). Most of them are like:
AbstractFramedStreamSourceChannel<AjpClientChannel,AbstractAjpClientStreamSourceChannel,AbstractAjpClientStreamSinkChannel>
this line produces multiple warnings, for example ',' not followed by a
whitespace and such.
if(attachments == null) - if not followed by a whitespace etc.
Hence if such a mature product like tomcat (with 10.000.000 installations)
contains 85412 errors and is considered well documented, he is using the
wrong tool for the task.
regards
Leon
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:25 AM Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thank you very much Igal, Marc and Emmanuel.
>
> regards
> Leon
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:23 AM Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Le 05/02/2019 à 00:48, Leon Rosenberg a écrit :
>>
>> > I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat
>> downloads
>> > sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
>> > I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
>> >
>> > " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even
>> a 1%
>> > production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
>> > But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by
>> now.
>> >
>> > Anyone? Asking for a friend ;-)
>>
>> Some numbers, from Debian:
>>
>>
>> https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=tomcat9+tomcat8+tomcat7+tomcat6&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1
>>
>> around 2400 installations reported by popcon, rather stable over the
>> years.
>>
>> From Ubuntu:
>>
>> https://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
>>
>> tomcat6 15785
>> tomcat7 2122
>> tomcat8 117
>>
>> And from Netcraft:
>>
>>
>> https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2018/12/17/december-2018-web-server-survey.html
>>
>> Netcraft reported ~600000 domains served by Tomcat.
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>>
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@gmail.com>.
Thank you very much Igal, Marc and Emmanuel.
regards
Leon
On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 11:23 AM Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org> wrote:
> Le 05/02/2019 à 00:48, Leon Rosenberg a écrit :
>
> > I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat
> downloads
> > sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
> > I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
> >
> > " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even a
> 1%
> > production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
> > But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by
> now.
> >
> > Anyone? Asking for a friend ;-)
>
> Some numbers, from Debian:
>
>
> https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=tomcat9+tomcat8+tomcat7+tomcat6&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1
>
> around 2400 installations reported by popcon, rather stable over the years.
>
> From Ubuntu:
>
> https://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
>
> tomcat6 15785
> tomcat7 2122
> tomcat8 117
>
> And from Netcraft:
>
>
> https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2018/12/17/december-2018-web-server-survey.html
>
> Netcraft reported ~600000 domains served by Tomcat.
>
> Emmanuel Bourg
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>
Re: Number of tomcat downloads
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 05/02/2019 à 00:48, Leon Rosenberg a écrit :
> I vaguely remember Marc naming some figures for number of tomcat downloads
> sofar, but I couldn't find anything in the state of the cat slides.
> I checked on the website, but all I found was this:
>
> " Tomcat has been downloaded more than 10 million times: assuming even a 1%
> production adoption rate results in more than 100000 installations. "
> But this is from 2014 and I assume there should be a better number by now.
>
> Anyone? Asking for a friend ;-)
Some numbers, from Debian:
https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=tomcat9+tomcat8+tomcat7+tomcat6&show_installed=on&want_legend=on&want_ticks=on&from_date=&to_date=&hlght_date=&date_fmt=%25Y-%25m&beenhere=1
around 2400 installations reported by popcon, rather stable over the years.
From Ubuntu:
https://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst
tomcat6 15785
tomcat7 2122
tomcat8 117
And from Netcraft:
https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2018/12/17/december-2018-web-server-survey.html
Netcraft reported ~600000 domains served by Tomcat.
Emmanuel Bourg
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