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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2003/09/12 00:51:34 UTC
XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets page2document.xsl)
On Thu, Sep 11, 2003 at 04:04:51PM +0200, Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> We are comparing two cases SVG and XSP, if you feel that we need to run
> an Ant task then let's do it. But for both technologies as they are
> equivalent cases:
>
> SVG support
> ===========
> batik-1.5b4-fop.jar 2068 Kb
> works with static content.
> Low usage
>
> XSP support
> ===========
> jdtcore-2.1.0.jar 2408 Kb
> works with static content.
> Requested by users.
>
>
> So same reasons you apply for a "get-xsp" ant task I applied for
> "get-svg" ant task.
Okay, so we _could_ add a task:
<target name="get-svg">
<get ... />
</target>
And then because the seed target uses SVG, we'd need to make a
dependency:
<target name="seed" depends="get-svg, ...">
And since 'forrest seed' is the first thing we recommend that new users
do, almost everyone will end up running get-svg, and a significant
proportion will be unable to use Forrest because they are offline or have
proxy problems. Great.
Of course the same offline/proxy issues affect a get-xsp target, but
given the number of Forrest users wanting XSP, this is a tiny cost
compared to that of increasing the Forrest download by 2.4Mb for
everyone.
--Jeff
> Cheers,
> cheche
>
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets
page2document.xsl)
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
>
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>+1 to SVG as it currently is. I do not want to have Forrest CVS
>>>get top-heavy with other add-ins. The wiki document
>>>http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=AddingXSPToForrest
>>>describes how to do it. Yes let us wait for "real blocks" to get
>>>automated plugins.
>>
>>That document is obsolete you do not need to do all these steps to get
>>xsp support within forrest.
>
>
> Oh sorry, well then could someone who knows about it add a warning
> to it please.
>
> --David
Done it. I am not surre if that is enough.
Cheers,
cheche
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs
commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets page2document.xsl)
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >
> > +1 to SVG as it currently is. I do not want to have Forrest CVS
> > get top-heavy with other add-ins. The wiki document
> > http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=AddingXSPToForrest
> > describes how to do it. Yes let us wait for "real blocks" to get
> > automated plugins.
>
> That document is obsolete you do not need to do all these steps to get
> xsp support within forrest.
Oh sorry, well then could someone who knows about it add a warning
to it please.
--David
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets
page2document.xsl)
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
David Crossley wrote:
>
> +1 to SVG as it currently is. I do not want to have Forrest CVS
> get top-heavy with other add-ins. The wiki document
> http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=AddingXSPToForrest
> describes how to do it. Yes let us wait for "real blocks" to get
> automated plugins.
That document is obsolete you do not need to do all these steps to get
xsp support within forrest.
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit:
xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets page2document.xsl)
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> ...
> > The issue here is that we have two identical technologies one is added
> > by default and the other is not.
>
> The issue here is that you two are not communicating ;-P
>
> You are at a point where you both keep saying the same things over and
> over and understand what the other says but still have the same opinion.
>
> Let's try and get over this a bit faster, maybe a VOTE?
>
> Well, my vote goes to keeping SVG as default and adding xsp as an extra
> download, or in alternative have both in CVS. I'll wait for real blocks
> support to have a real autodownload of functionality.
Nicely said, Nicola Ken. I was trying to come up with some words to
break the impasse, but you have said it well.
The SVG stuff has been in Forrest since early days, so it is not fair
to compare its situation with the new request to add XSP support.
+1 to SVG as it currently is. I do not want to have Forrest CVS
get top-heavy with other add-ins. The wiki document
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=AddingXSPToForrest
describes how to do it. Yes let us wait for "real blocks" to get
automated plugins.
--David
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets
page2document.xsl)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
...
> The issue here is that we have two identical technologies one is added
> by default and the other is not.
The issue here is that you two are not communicating ;-P
You are at a point where you both keep saying the same things over and
over and understand what the other says but still have the same opinion.
Let's try and get over this a bit faster, maybe a VOTE?
Well, my vote goes to keeping SVG as default and adding xsp as an extra
download, or in alternative have both in CVS. I'll wait for real blocks
support to have a real autodownload of functionality.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets
page2document.xsl)
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>><target name="seed" depends="get-svg, get-xsp, ...">
>
>
> 'cvs rm -f xsp-sample.xsp' will instantly solve that problem with no loss
> of functionality.
>
cvs add group.png project.png will allow nice images to be displayed
with an increase of performance :-)
>
> Give up! ;) We're not going to remove SVG from fresh-site because
> generating a logo from skinconf.xml is cool and maybe even useful.
I have not enough e-paper to write down all the cool features and useful
things that XSP provides.
>
> Besides which, we couldn't remove built-in SVG support because it would
> break backwards-compat with all sites expecting it. The issue is XSP
> support.
>
>
For those sites that expecting SVG support, there is a lovely ant task
waiting for them:
if ${project.home}/src/documentation/resources/images/*.svg
then
target="get-svg"
<-- This point has not got enought ground but I thought about it
We have not release yet ( unless you do it only for the sake of wining
an argument) so there is not need to keep backwards compatibility.
-->
The issue here is that we have two identical technologies one is added
by default and the other is not.
Cheers,
Cheche
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets page2document.xsl)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 01:04:50AM +0200, Juan Jose Pablos wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
> >
> >Okay, so we _could_ add a task:
> >
> ><target name="get-svg">
> > <get ... />
> ></target>
> >
>
> Hey!, we are getting closer! :-)
>
> >And then because the seed target uses SVG, we'd need to make a
> >dependency:
> >
> ><target name="seed" depends="get-svg, ...">
> >
>
> Same as xsp, there is a xsp-sample.xsp so it has to be:
>
> <target name="seed" depends="get-svg, get-xsp, ...">
'cvs rm -f xsp-sample.xsp' will instantly solve that problem with no loss
of functionality.
> >Of course the same offline/proxy issues affect a get-xsp target, but
> >given the number of Forrest users wanting XSP, this is a tiny cost
> >compared to that of increasing the Forrest download by 2.4Mb for
> >everyone.
> >
> >--Jeff
>
> Unless xsp or svg are not added by default in the seed example, then
> there is not dependency.
Give up! ;) We're not going to remove SVG from fresh-site because
generating a logo from skinconf.xml is cool and maybe even useful.
Besides which, we couldn't remove built-in SVG support because it would
break backwards-compat with all sites expecting it. The issue is XSP
support.
--Jeff
> These examples can be added when users run get-svg or get-xsp doing this
> we decrease 4.4Mb download for everyone.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Cheche
>
Re: XSP vs SVG (Re: cvs commit: xml-forrest/src/resources/stylesheets
page2document.xsl)
Posted by Juan Jose Pablos <ch...@che-che.com>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>
> Okay, so we _could_ add a task:
>
> <target name="get-svg">
> <get ... />
> </target>
>
Hey!, we are getting closer! :-)
> And then because the seed target uses SVG, we'd need to make a
> dependency:
>
> <target name="seed" depends="get-svg, ...">
>
Same as xsp, there is a xsp-sample.xsp so it has to be:
<target name="seed" depends="get-svg, get-xsp, ...">
> Of course the same offline/proxy issues affect a get-xsp target, but
> given the number of Forrest users wanting XSP, this is a tiny cost
> compared to that of increasing the Forrest download by 2.4Mb for
> everyone.
>
> --Jeff
Unless xsp or svg are not added by default in the seed example, then
there is not dependency.
These examples can be added when users run get-svg or get-xsp doing this
we decrease 4.4Mb download for everyone.
Cheers,
Cheche