It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[David Blevins <da...@visi.com>]

There's the expression It Takes a Village to Raise a Child.  I think  
the expression applies equally well to open source projects and the  
subtext being that it's 50% a contributor's responsibility to do well  
and 50% our responsibility to make sure they can.  So before proposing  
someone for commit status I think it's good to have at least the  
opportunity for open discussion on how well we're all doing as mentors  
and contributors.

With that said, Jean-Louis, you have any feedback for us?  Anything  
you think helped you get into the project that we should keep doing?   
Any ideas for things we could add as good habits for encouraging/ 
helping new contributors?

All, same questions on the reverse.  Anythings that Jean-Louis did  
that you think all contributors should do?  Any ideas for things he  
could add as good habits?


-David

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[Mohammad Nour El-Din <no...@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Jean-Louis
MONTEIRO<je...@atosorigin.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> First of all thanks a lot for the feedback. It's the first time I put
> oneself into an open source project (I already submitted a set of patches in
> other opensource projects.) so your feeling is important.
>
> When I read this post I felt a bit surprised. But finally, it seems to me
> more logical. Like always, everything is discussed and feedback is always
> welcome (I really appreciate).
>
> I will be out until next Monday so here are some comments/inputs.
>
>
> David Blevins wrote:
>>
>> With that said, Jean-Louis, you have any feedback for us?  Anything you
>> think helped you get into the project that we should keep doing?
>>
>
> - First, remain available and open-minded. For a newbie, it's really
> appreciated to have an easy way to interact with the community. users-lists
> is a good channel.
> - Examples are also a good point. We have a large set of examples, fully
> runnable and easy to understand.
> - User friendly, simple and flexible: 2 years ago, when I started a study
> about containers, I was a small JBoss user and a Spring (convinced) user.
> Conclusions were: JBoss is a commercial company (RedHat) proposing a set of
> tools more or less tightly coupled. JBoss stack is a bit complex (today) and
> the RedHat strategy regarding JBoss Embeddable (or Embedded JBoss) wasn't
> clear. Spring is a very nice, flexible, powerful IOC. SpringSource provides
> very interesting (pragmatic) solutions. But things has been changing for a
> while and it becomes more and more difficult to use only a subset of
> Spring's stuff.
> OpenEJB (advanced features compared with the specification, good community
> and activity, ...) was finally the winner.
>
>
> David Blevins wrote:
>>
>> Any ideas for things we could add as good habits for encouraging/
>> helping new contributors?
>>
>
> Hum, to be honest the documentation is something we definitely have to
> change/enhanced. We have documentation but information is not easy to
> retrieve.
> It seems to me we discussed that point (some month ago) with Mohammad and
> Jon but we are all busy guys and we haven't got any time to really work on
> it ;-)
> Even if the code itself is more or less easy to understand (except some
> pieces of code ;-)), it would be nice to have an overall schema
> (architecture) and may be a small graph of the maven
> tree/organization/hierarchy.
>
>
> David Blevins wrote:
>>
>> All, same questions on the reverse.  Anythings that Jean-Louis did you
>> think all contributors should do?  Any ideas for things he add as good
>> habits?
>>
>
>
> David Blevins wrote:
>>
>> Maybe a bit more documentation to go with new examples and features
>>
> Agree. Will do my best to increase documentation (yes, I can ;-)).
>
> To finish, I would like to thank all of you. I have been learning a lot
> working with you (OpenEJB, EJB 3 specification, English too, …).
>
> It's not always easy for me because of organization (company) reasons.
> I cannot spend a large amount of time all the day that's why I have to do it
> in my own (free time at home).

We are all that man my friend ;)

>
> Thanks again.
> Kind regards,
> Jean-Louis
>
> -----
>   Jean-Louis
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/It-takes-a-village----Jean-Louis-tp23931473p23967520.html
> Sent from the OpenEJB Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>



-- 
----
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[Jean-Louis MONTEIRO <je...@atosorigin.com>]

Hi all,

First of all thanks a lot for the feedback. It's the first time I put
oneself into an open source project (I already submitted a set of patches in
other opensource projects.) so your feeling is important.

When I read this post I felt a bit surprised. But finally, it seems to me
more logical. Like always, everything is discussed and feedback is always
welcome (I really appreciate). 

I will be out until next Monday so here are some comments/inputs.


David Blevins wrote:
> 
> With that said, Jean-Louis, you have any feedback for us?  Anything you
> think helped you get into the project that we should keep doing?   
> 

- First, remain available and open-minded. For a newbie, it's really
appreciated to have an easy way to interact with the community. users-lists
is a good channel.
- Examples are also a good point. We have a large set of examples, fully
runnable and easy to understand.
- User friendly, simple and flexible: 2 years ago, when I started a study
about containers, I was a small JBoss user and a Spring (convinced) user.
Conclusions were: JBoss is a commercial company (RedHat) proposing a set of
tools more or less tightly coupled. JBoss stack is a bit complex (today) and
the RedHat strategy regarding JBoss Embeddable (or Embedded JBoss) wasn't
clear. Spring is a very nice, flexible, powerful IOC. SpringSource provides
very interesting (pragmatic) solutions. But things has been changing for a
while and it becomes more and more difficult to use only a subset of
Spring's stuff.
OpenEJB (advanced features compared with the specification, good community
and activity, ...) was finally the winner.


David Blevins wrote:
> 
> Any ideas for things we could add as good habits for encouraging/ 
> helping new contributors?
> 

Hum, to be honest the documentation is something we definitely have to
change/enhanced. We have documentation but information is not easy to
retrieve. 
It seems to me we discussed that point (some month ago) with Mohammad and
Jon but we are all busy guys and we haven't got any time to really work on
it ;-)
Even if the code itself is more or less easy to understand (except some
pieces of code ;-)), it would be nice to have an overall schema
(architecture) and may be a small graph of the maven
tree/organization/hierarchy.


David Blevins wrote:
> 
> All, same questions on the reverse.  Anythings that Jean-Louis did you
> think all contributors should do?  Any ideas for things he add as good
> habits?
> 


David Blevins wrote:
> 
> Maybe a bit more documentation to go with new examples and features
> 
Agree. Will do my best to increase documentation (yes, I can ;-)).

To finish, I would like to thank all of you. I have been learning a lot
working with you (OpenEJB, EJB 3 specification, English too, …).

It's not always easy for me because of organization (company) reasons.
I cannot spend a large amount of time all the day that's why I have to do it
in my own (free time at home). 

Thanks again.
Kind regards,
Jean-Louis

-----
   Jean-Louis
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/It-takes-a-village----Jean-Louis-tp23931473p23967520.html
Sent from the OpenEJB Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[Jonathan Gallimore <jo...@gmail.com>]

I'd like to echo what's already been said. Jean-Louis has been an
enthusiastic and dedicated contributor, and has provided us with some
excellent patches, particularly with the webservice work he has done. He has
also been very active and helpful on both the users and dev lists. I can't
fault his contribution to the project at all.

As David has already said, Jean-Louis, if you have some feedback for us it
would be great to hear it. I think I've applied a fair few of your patches,
if there's something I could have done better, it would be great to know.

Regards

Jon

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Mohammad Nour El-Din <
nour.mohammad@gmail.com> wrote:

> Once, I have been asked by my manager what is the main thing that
> distinguish OSS projects from commercial ones and makes it so
> successful, and at once I replied that it is the unity of objective
> and enthusiasm, it is about being dedicated to something without
> anyone forcing you to, it is about trying to give the best that you as
> much as you can with anything obligating you to, IMO this is the key
> factor to make an OSS project successful.
>
> Jean-Louis proved to have this enthusiasm :), and I think all
> contributor as well as mentors should have this as in OSS project you
> are not get payed to do your tasks but you do it out of your interest
> to make a project as successful as the community can and as helpful
> and beneficial to users as the community can, it is as DBlevins said
> it is about belonging to a family and being committed to that family
> as much as you can.
>
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:22 AM, David Blevins<da...@visi.com>
> wrote:
> > So I'll go first.
> >
> > On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:23 PM, David Blevins wrote:
> >
> >> Anythings that Jean-Louis did that you think all contributors should do?
> >
> > The very top of my list: active on the users list.  Frequent and
> iterative
> > patches -- makes it way easier to collaborate and have seen a lot of that
> > out of he and Jon.  Not afraid to kick me in the pants when there's some
> > code waiting to be reviewed/checked in.  Good attitude, flexible, seeks
> > feedback, very patient.
> >
> > One thing he doesn't do which I appreciate is to be overly negative or
> picky
> > about existing code: once in a while you encounter that in people and it
> > always makes me wonder how they'll treat the patches of future
> contributors.
> >  I don't think Jean-Louis would dream of doing that which I like about
> him.
> >
> >> Any ideas for things he could add as good habits?
> >
> > Trying hard to think of something so this isn't all praise, but coming up
> > short.  He's pretty well rounded.  Maybe a bit more documentation to go
> with
> > new examples and features; not that I am any better :)  We're really in
> the
> > same boat on that one.
> >
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ----
> Thanks
> - Mohammad Nour
> - LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
> ----
> "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
> - Albert Einstein
>

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[Mohammad Nour El-Din <no...@gmail.com>]

Once, I have been asked by my manager what is the main thing that
distinguish OSS projects from commercial ones and makes it so
successful, and at once I replied that it is the unity of objective
and enthusiasm, it is about being dedicated to something without
anyone forcing you to, it is about trying to give the best that you as
much as you can with anything obligating you to, IMO this is the key
factor to make an OSS project successful.

Jean-Louis proved to have this enthusiasm :), and I think all
contributor as well as mentors should have this as in OSS project you
are not get payed to do your tasks but you do it out of your interest
to make a project as successful as the community can and as helpful
and beneficial to users as the community can, it is as DBlevins said
it is about belonging to a family and being committed to that family
as much as you can.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:22 AM, David Blevins<da...@visi.com> wrote:
> So I'll go first.
>
> On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:23 PM, David Blevins wrote:
>
>> Anythings that Jean-Louis did that you think all contributors should do?
>
> The very top of my list: active on the users list.  Frequent and iterative
> patches -- makes it way easier to collaborate and have seen a lot of that
> out of he and Jon.  Not afraid to kick me in the pants when there's some
> code waiting to be reviewed/checked in.  Good attitude, flexible, seeks
> feedback, very patient.
>
> One thing he doesn't do which I appreciate is to be overly negative or picky
> about existing code: once in a while you encounter that in people and it
> always makes me wonder how they'll treat the patches of future contributors.
>  I don't think Jean-Louis would dream of doing that which I like about him.
>
>> Any ideas for things he could add as good habits?
>
> Trying hard to think of something so this isn't all praise, but coming up
> short.  He's pretty well rounded.  Maybe a bit more documentation to go with
> new examples and features; not that I am any better :)  We're really in the
> same boat on that one.
>
>
> -David
>
>



-- 
----
Thanks
- Mohammad Nour
- LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mnour
----
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[David Blevins <da...@visi.com>]

So I'll go first.

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:23 PM, David Blevins wrote:

> Anythings that Jean-Louis did that you think all contributors should  
> do?

The very top of my list: active on the users list.  Frequent and  
iterative patches -- makes it way easier to collaborate and have seen  
a lot of that out of he and Jon.  Not afraid to kick me in the pants  
when there's some code waiting to be reviewed/checked in.  Good  
attitude, flexible, seeks feedback, very patient.

One thing he doesn't do which I appreciate is to be overly negative or  
picky about existing code: once in a while you encounter that in  
people and it always makes me wonder how they'll treat the patches of  
future contributors.  I don't think Jean-Louis would dream of doing  
that which I like about him.

> Any ideas for things he could add as good habits?

Trying hard to think of something so this isn't all praise, but coming  
up short.  He's pretty well rounded.  Maybe a bit more documentation  
to go with new examples and features; not that I am any better :)   
We're really in the same boat on that one.


-David

Re: It takes a village -- Jean-Louis

[David Blevins <da...@visi.com>]

On Jun 8, 2009, at 1:23 PM, David Blevins wrote:

> So before proposing someone for commit status I think it's good to  
> have at least the opportunity for open discussion on how well we're  
> all doing as mentors and contributors.

Was a good discussion.  Think we've got all the feedback we're going  
to get.  Going to propose Jean-Louis for commit!

-David