You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> on 2012/03/26 16:52:02 UTC
Simplifying podling infra
Hi,
Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
migration too much.
Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
the difference to status quo would be minimal.
The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Karl Wright <da...@gmail.com>.
A big +1 from me. It's a royal pain in the rear to move so much stuff
around just because of graduation.
Karl
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 26 March 2012 17:51, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For projects who have settled on a permanent
>> name, some things might be better. But this
>> does not make life easier for the project nor
>> infra when our incubator-related infra depends
>> on naming conventions being followed, so this
>> decisions isn't purely an IPMC one.
>
> Good point.
>
> Perhaps limit this option only to podlings that have already gone
> through the PODLINGNAMESEARCH process as a part of preparing the
> initial proposal? That would be a great added incentive for projects
> to pay good attention to naming right at the beginning.
Having a different process for podlings in different stages seems like
needless complication.
This might mean that projects hold off creating sites for longer.
At present, podling sites can be created under incubator without
needing to involve infra at all.
So less work for infra for the podlings that don't graduate - or don't
graduate to a TLP.
I don't know whether this will still be possible under svnpubsub/CMS
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 5:23 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For projects who have settled on a permanent
> name, some things might be better. But this
> does not make life easier for the project nor
> infra when our incubator-related infra depends
> on naming conventions being followed, so this
> decisions isn't purely an IPMC one.
Good point.
Perhaps limit this option only to podlings that have already gone
through the PODLINGNAMESEARCH process as a part of preparing the
initial proposal? That would be a great added incentive for projects
to pay good attention to naming right at the beginning.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.
For projects who have settled on a permanent
name, some things might be better. But this
does not make life easier for the project nor
infra when our incubator-related infra depends
on naming conventions being followed, so this
decisions isn't purely an IPMC one.
>________________________________
> From: Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>
>To: general <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:52 AM
>Subject: Simplifying podling infra
>
>Hi,
>
>Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
>site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
>repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
>infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
>migration too much.
>
>Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
>expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
>be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
>still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
>might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
>podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
>another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
>the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
>The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
>become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
>upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
>by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
>distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
>WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
>the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
>BR,
>
>Jukka Zitting
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.
+1 you know you're going in the right direction if it means less process
Regards,
Alan
On Mar 26, 2012, at 7:52 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
+1 from me on this proposal :)
Cheers,
Chris
On Mar 26, 2012, at 7:52 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org> wrote:
> To your comment on the downside. It is something that mentors need to
> manage to. For projects that are moving like a herd of turtles, they get
> ASF benefits right up front and for those that are lazy like me, there is
> less incentive to move.
This was a concern of mine as well.
I'd suggest everything but the website.
Marvin Humphrey
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
+1
To your comment on the downside. It is something that mentors need to manage to. For projects that are moving like a herd of turtles, they get ASF benefits right up front and for those that are lazy like me, there is less incentive to move.
Trying this approach and seeing how it plays out would be great.
Matt Hogstrom
matt@hogstrom.org
A Day Without Nuclear Fusion Is a Day Without Sunshine
On Mar 26, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Simplifying podling infra
Posted by Michael McCandless <lu...@mikemccandless.com>.
+1
Mike McCandless
http://blog.mikemccandless.com
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Currently new podlings have most of their infrastructure (lists, web
> site, svn, etc.) set up under incubator.apache.org and
> repos/asf/incubator. As a consequence they need to perform an extra
> infrastructure migration when they graduate. IMHO that's one infra
> migration too much.
>
> Would it make sense for us to allow podlings to be set up at their
> expected TLP locations right from the beginning? The IPMC would still
> be ultimately responsible for overseeing all these locations and we'd
> still expect the standard incubator disclaimers to be in place (we
> might even ask for extra ones in list footers, etc. if needed). If a
> podling ends up being retired or graduating into a subproject of
> another TLP, then an extra migration step would still be needed but
> the difference to status quo would be minimal.
>
> The downside of this change would be that the term "incubator" would
> become less prominent in the day-to-day operations of a podling. The
> upside would be reduced infra overhead, less community trouble caused
> by migrations and simplified incubation documentation (no need to
> distinguish between podling and TLP state in so many places).
>
> WDYT? If there's interest (and not many objections), we could try out
> the idea with a few upcoming podlings to see how it works in practice.
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org